boltons are sick

This is Joffrey's Complete Monster entry on TV Tropes: King Joffrey I Baratheon of King's Landing, despite his young age, stands out as one of the vilest characters in the series. While always shown to have a darker side, Joffrey finally crosses the line when he has Lord Eddard "Ned" Stark executed, ensuring that the war with the Northerners would never reach a peaceful conclusion. Joffrey not only does this in front of Ned's daughter, Sansa, Joffrey's own fiancée, he then forces her to look at the decapitated heads of her father and household afterwards. This is followed by a long period of Domestic Abuse during which Joffrey has her regularly beaten by his Kingsguard and threatens to rape her even after she marries his uncle, Tyrion Lannister. As king, Joffrey revels in his power over life and death, and his reign is filled with all manner of pointless cruelties, his crimes including: having a minstrel whose song offended him choose between losing his fingers or his tongue; attempting to have a drunken knight drowned in a cask of wine; firing on starving peasants with his crossbow; ordering his bodyguard to cut through a crowd of peasants to get at one of them who threw manure at him; nailing antlers to the heads of sympathizers to his uncle and rival for the Iron Throne, Stannis, and firing them from trebuchets as entertainment during the Battle of the Blackwater; and attempting to convince his grandfather to execute everyone who fought against him, regardless of whether or not they surrendered. A budding psychopath who believes being the king gives him the right to do whatever he likes, Joffrey's sadism is so great that he is noted to be well on his way to surpassing his predecessor as the next Mad King of the Seven Kingdoms. So, basically, aside from executing Ned, he also kills all of his men and then forces Sansa to look at their heads, regularly has Sansa beaten and even says he is going to rape her because he is the King, forces a minstrel to choose between losing his fingers or his tongue, tries to have a drunken knight drowned in a cask of wine and only stops when Sansa lies to him that killing a man on his namesday brings bad luck, fires at a crowd of starving peasants with his crossbow, killing several of them and telling the survivors that they can eat the dead, orders the Hound to slaughter his way through a crowd of peasants to reach someone who threw manore at him, tortures Stannis sympathizers by nailing antlers to their heads and firing them from trebuchets and tries to convince Tywin Lannister to execute everyone in the Riverlands who fought against him even if they are willing to bend the knee to him.

By the wikis' standards, even if we see very little from a character but they don't show any redeeming qualities during that time, we just assume they don't have any redeeming or sympathetic qualities unless they are explicitly shown to have them. The only reason why Kraznys is Near Pure Evil is because a Pure Evil needs to commit crimes that make them stand out while Kraznys' actions are not unique enough to stand out from the rest of the slave masters of Astapor who do the same.

Yeah, the two of them are listed in those exact categories.

For those of you who don’t know, there are several wikis for villains. One of them is called Pure Evil wiki (which, in short, is about villains with no redeeming or sympathetic qualities), the second is called Near Pure Evil wiki (Which, in short, is about villains with almost no redeeming or sympathetic qualities but they still can’t qualify for the Pure Evil wiki for some reason. However, there are other cases where a villain can be Near Pure Evil even if they don't have any redeemable qualities like slightly lacking moral agency or slightly failing the heinous standard of the series because they don't go the extra mile in terms of crimes). There is also a third wiki called the Inconsistently Heinous wiki (which, in short, is about characters who have committed awful crimes, but they still have too many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and excuses for their actions to qualify as Pure Evil or Near Pure Evil). The name “Inconsistently Heinous” means that the characters are too inconsistent in their heinousness to be Near Pure Evil and they need to have many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and/or excuses for their actions. Often times Inconsistently Heinous characters can even be morally ambiguous heroes in the stories they are depicted, but they also do some bad things along the way. Kraznys is listed on the Near Pure Evil wiki because he fails to be unique enough among his own caste of slavemasters because there are several other slavemasters in Astapor who also train Unsullied andt hat practice has existed in the city for centuries and Kraznys wasn't the one who created it, thus he fails to be unique enough in terms of actions, but it's considered to be a minor prevention because he still gets far more characterization compared to his fellow slavemasters. Here is a list of the crimes he has committed as well as some other reasons which make him close to being Pure Evil which is copied and pasted from his page on the wiki: He is a slavemaster who trains thousands of boys to become Unsullied with the whole process being extremely horrible even by the standards of ASOIAF/GOT. First, all of the boys are gelded at a very young age with both their penises and testicles removed. Then, each of them is given a puppy they have to take care of and by the end of the year they need to kill the puppy to get used to killing. The boys who fail to kill their puppies are killed and then fed to dogs as punishment. However, in the show that part is omitted. Each day they select new names at random by drawing tokens from a bucket. Each of those tokens consists of a color and a type of vermin to remind them how low they stand. Any boy who can't remember his name for the day is killed. They are subjected to harsh training which lasts for years and is designed to strip away all self-worth, empathy and individuality and includes tasks like running all day in full pack, scaling a mountain at night or walking across a bed of coals. The training is so brutal that approximately only one of every three boys (in the TV show it's one of every four boys) completes the training while the other two thirds are killed off for failing a task. Each of the boys who has survived the years of training has to buy a baby from the slave market and kill it in front of the mother to further prove that they are capable of killing others. They then get sold to the rich people willing to pay well for them to be used as highly skilled soldiers. Kraznys mo Nakloz demonstrates the Unsullied's resistance to pain in front of Daenerys by personally cutting off the nipple of one of his Unsullied who barely reacts. He is very rude and constantly insults Daenerys, thinking she can't understand his language and is verbally abusive to his translator. He invites Daenerys to one of Astapor's pits for a spectacle with a bear and three small boys - one boy is to be rolled in honey, one in blood and one in rotting fish, with the audience wagering on which boy the bear will eat first. While there is no indication this spectacle is organized by Kraznys himself, he is still delighted to see it which shows what kind of person he is. In the books, after he sells the Unsullied to Daenerys, he advises her to let her army spill some blood by looting towns. Kraznys also asks Daenerys to sell him any strong boys she captures during the raids, so he can make new Unsullied out of them. While the training of the Unsullied happens off-screen and is not actually shown, Kraznys' crimes are not off-screen villainy because the Unsullied are shown on-screen and the impact the training had on them is also shown. He is implied to be a rapist, as Missandei said he also loved to "play" only with the girls. While his death of being burned alive by Drogon is brutal, he deserved it for the brutal training he subjects young boys to where most of them die and the survivors become nearly emotionless killing machines and for forcing them to kill puppies and babies to prove that they can kill. So, do you agree with the decision to list Kraznys as Near Pure Evil or not?

This makes me legitimately curious. I have seen countless posts about howTyrion used to be good in the first 3 books but then he snapped in the fifth after all the bad things that happened to him and now he is bad and rapes random sex slaves. However, this doesn't really add up because he has done lot of bad things BEFORE the fifth book. I will just copy and paste a list of all the bad or morally ambiguous things Tyrion has done throughout the whole series which is taken from his page on the Inconsistently Heinous wiki to show how many of the things on the list come from the first 3 books: He crushed the musician Marillion's fingers out of spite. He took revenge on Lysa Arryn for imprisoning him by arming the mountain clans with new weapons and armors and then goaded them into attacking the villages of the Vale. While those raids are not shown, from what is described in the books by other people and what is presented about the mountain clans, it is still clear that they were devastating for the people of Vale. Tyrion himself even thinks about how the Vale is going to be "reduced to a smoking wasteland" which further shows the destructive nature of his plan. While he has a soft spot for underdogs, he has no problem with armies raiding, killing, raping and burning villages down, saying it is just a part of war. He seemingly allowed Allar Deem to take the black in and go to the Night's Watch but instead he ordered the captain who was transporting him to throw him off-board on their way to the Wall (granted, Allar Deem had it coming for killing an innocent woman and her baby). He then replaced him with Bronn, someone who is just as amoral. When asked if he would kill a baby without question, Bronn replied he wouldn't kill one without asking how much. He poisoned his sister, Queen Cersei, to the point of her getting sick so that he could run the government while she was absent. When Cersei had a prostitute captured, Tyrion threatened that any harm that would come to the prostitute, including rape, he would inflict upon Tommen who is his nephew and a child. When he hears that the prostitute had been whipped bloodily (which was actually done by Tywin, but at the time Tyrion thinks it's Cersei), he thinks with sadness about how he is going to have to do the same to Tommen because otherwise Cersei would win which heavily indicates his threat was actually true. When Varys informs him that a large group of men called the Antler Men were planning to sabotage the defenses of the city and let Stannis conquer it, Tyrion has them all arrested and gives them to Joffrey to be brutally tortured and killed. Joffrey nailed antlers to their heads and then shot them with trebuchets against the enemy forces and Tyrion doesn't seem to feel any remorse about it. He slapped his lover Shae after she mocked him. Even though he knows his nephew Joffrey is not the rightful heir to Robert Baratheon and would be a terrible and cruel King, he still supports his claim to the throne and organizes the defense of King's Landing against Stannis' forces. His plan to use wildfire to destroy Stannis' fleet which kills many of the sailors, including Davos' four sons, and his management over the defense of the city is what ensures that Joffrey would remain in power. He ordered Bron to kill a singer who was trying to extort him. He then ordered him to get rid of the body by giving it to an inn to be cooked into a stew which was then fed to the poor people of King's Landing who didn't even suspect they were eating human flesh. He wants to sleep with Sansa, who is around 13 years old. Granted he doesn't actually go through with it even though it was expected of him by his father to consumate his marriage. When he learned the truth about Tysha, he swears revenge on his entire family, including Jaime, who loved him. He even lied about killing Joffrey and confessed that Cersei is cheating on Jaime, just for the sake of hurting him. While he was escaping from execution, he killed his former lover Shae on his way for giving false testimony against him. This act is presented as more heinous than it is in the show because in the books Shae doesn't try to kill him but instead starts apologizing to him and says that she was forced to testify against her will by Tywin and she was too afraid to refuse but Tyrion kills her anyway. He shoots his father, Tywin Lannister, with a crossbow and kills him (granted, Tywin had it coming for all the abuse he put Tyrion through and for his other actions). After his kills his father, he takes a drastic turn for the worst, becoming more cynical and bitter than ever. He often fantasizes about hurting his family, often of him raping and strangling Cersei to death. He also fantasizes about Jaime and Cersei's heads on spikes. In the fifth book, he goes into a brothel, and even after learning that the girls there are sex slaves who were kidnapped from their homelands and forced to please men against their will, he still forces himself on one of them even after he sees that she is uncomfortable with it. It is very likely he might have raped another sex slave girl as well in Illyrio's mansion if his comments that he is going to claim her after his dinner with Illyrio are anything to go by. He even threatens that if he kills her, her master wouldn't mind because Tyrion is more important to him than some sex girl. The only reason why Tyrion threatens her like that is because he enjoys seeing her afraid of him. He manipulated Jon Connington and Young Griff to attack Westeros early, leading to more war and death in Westeros. When he becomes a slave, he takes advantage when one of the guards gets sick, to feed him poisoned mushrooms, so he can watch him die (though the guard had it coming for his mistreatment of Tyrion and the other slaves). As you can see, Tyrion in the very first book incites the wildling clans to attack the Vale by promising them that they can take it for themselves even though he knows their savage lifestyle and that this would lead to a lot of death and destruction for the people of the Vale. He not only incites them to attack the Vale, he also provides them with better weapons and armor to make it easier for them. And before anyone says that he didn't expect them to do it and he doesn't bear any responsility, first, as the person who deliberately advised them to attack the Vale and put that thought into their heads that they could conquer the Vale knowing what this would lead to and as the person who provided them with better weapons and armor so they could do it, yes he is responsible for their raids. Not only that, we actually see from his own POV that his goal is to reduce the Vale to a "smoking wasteland" which shows that scale of death and devastation he wants to bring on the Vale with this. This is the exact quote from the first book (I am translating from Bulgarian to english, so there might be some inconsistencies but it should be more or less the same): This is something Tyrion thinks would happen to the Vale because of his actions of inciting the wildling to attack and giving them good weapons and armor and he takes pride in that and wants to brag about it to his father. You can't claim that he is just a weapons dealer who is not responsible for what his clients do with his weapons. The analogue would be that he is a weapons dealer who deliberately advises his clients to use his weapons to kill innocent people with them en mass and he takes great pride in all the death and destruction his actions have caused. In the second book, he has a large group of men called the Antler's men arrested and then has them given to Joffrey to be tortured to death and killed. Joffrey nails antlers to their heads and proceeds to catapult them against the enemy lines and Tyrion feels absolutely no remorse over condemning them to such a gruesome fate. In the third book, he orders the death of a singer who was extorting him and then he has Bronn give his body somewhere where it would be cooked into a stew and fed to unsuspecting random people who don't know that they are eating human flesh. I could go on but you get my point by now. I like Tyrion and I sympathize with him but I really don't understand where this whole interpretation that Tyrion in the first books was a good man who was aiming to improve the lives of the poor people even comes from. Also, I have to say that it really annoys me that so many people try to portray Cersei as "evil" and yet they think Tyrion is "good" when they have both done some really fucked up things throughout the series and they both have excuses for their actions and redeeming and sympathetic qualities.

I like the world GRRM has created and, in general, I like dragons in fantasy. The thing is, I find dragons in ASOIAF to be a very boring and underused aspect of the world. It feels like their only purpose in the story is to save Daenerys out of danger and to have her worry about them. There is also some backstory about how the Targaryens used to ride them... but like that's it. Dragons in ASOIAF can't talk, they don't have their own societies and they seem fairly unintelligent. I know a lot of people like them, but I just find them boring and I don't see much purpose for them beyond GRRM deciding that it's cool. And I kinda feel it makes Daenerys story and victories feel kinda unearned because every time when she is in trouble or needs some support, the dragons are there to either convince people with their mere presense or take action on their own, not to mention it makes Daenerys feel too much like a chosen one and I immensely dislike that trope. In contrast, the dragons from Warcraft for example are pretty cool and well thought out and, in fact, Warcraft dragons are my favorite dragons in fantasy. Unlike other fantasy settings, dragons in Warcraft are presented as good and noble as a whole and they are capable of speech and are much more intelligent than humans or other mortal races. Their role is to preserve the world from dangers and they wield incredible magic powers to the point where every dragon can transform themselves into a member of a race they desire and spy on them to gather information on them which then they give to their superiors, the Dragon Aspects, through telepathic ways. The Warcraft dragons are divided into 5 dragonflights and each of them is ruled by a different Dragon Aspect. The Aspects are Alexstrazsa, queen of the Red Dragonflight and Aspect of Life, Malygos, leader of the Blue Dragonfight and Aspect of Magic, Ysera, queen of the Green Dragonflight and Aspect of Dreams, Nozdormu, leader of the Bronze Dragonflight and Aspect of Time and Neltharion, leader of the Black Dragonflight and Aspect of Earth. The 5 of them were good friends and they often helped each other and united to protect the world from dangers. One of the biggest villains of the Warcraft universe is Deathwing who was once the good and noble Neltharion. He was considered to be the wisest amongst the dragons and all the others asked him for advice which made him prideful. One of the Old Gods, N'zoth, started whispering in his head and convinced him that the other dragons are not his friends and they are jealous of his wisdom and plan to betray him. This constant whispering eventually drove him mad and he started believing it. The story is very long and complex, but long story short, this caused him to become and evil and paranoid maniac with a god complex who discards all his previous redeeming qualities. He betrayed the other dragons and committed many atrocities which include genocide, unethical experimentation, rape, trying to manipualte and instigate wars murdering and experimenting on his own children and trying to wipe out all life on the whole planet, so he may rule as the supreme ruler as well as many other crimes before he is stopped by the other Dragon Aspects as well as members of the mortal races and killed off for good. So, do you feel like dragons in ASOIAF are a boring aspect of the worldbuilding which were created solely to get Deanerys out of trouble and make her superpowered and do you wish they were given sapience (like Warcraft dragons for instance) or do like them the way they are and think they are great for the story?

Even if this act was genuine on his part, he later subverts it by having the septa executed and Sansa beaten and threatened with rape.

Whether someone is sadistic or not is usually not taken into account when it's decided under which category a certain characters should go. In fact, there are a lot of characters under the Pure Evil category who don't show sadism, yet, they still qualify because they don't have any genuine redeeming qualities, don't have any excuses and they simply don't care about the lives of other people and they still commit terrible crimes for selfish reasons (most of the time out of greed). An example of this includes, Wat Tambor from Star Wars: The Clone Wars who is a corrupt businessman who wants to increase his own profits by enslaving the population of an entire planet and forcing them into work under his oppressive rule where they starve because he wants to gain a lot of wealth by exploiting them. When the Republic attacks, Tambor uses the people as living shields to slow their advance and when his superior, Count Dooku, sees that he is going to lose the planet, he orders Tambor to firebomb the whole planet and commit genocide against its billions of inhabitants to send a message to the galaxy about the cost of a Republic victory. Tambor complies with Dooku's orders and specifically instructs his droids to target ever village by starting with the inhabited ones and it's explicitly mentioned that there are many women and children killed by his droids. He also tries to evacuate from the planet, but first he tries to steal all the treasures for himself. Later, he is shown to lead horrific experiments against sentient creatures in his facility because his company is developing new weapons they want to sell and they need test subjects and he is shown to have subjected a Clone to a fate worse than death where the Clone constantly relives the last moments before his supposed death because Tambor wants to extract useful tactics out of his head and sell them to the Separatists. Despite not showing much in the way of sadism, he is still Pure Evil because he doesn't have any genuine redeeming qualities, no Freudian Excuse which could explain his greed in the present and all of his actions are motivated by a desire to increase his profits. Another example of a Pure Evil villain who is not sadistic is Lewis Dodgson from Jurassic World who is another corrupt businessman. He tries to unleash artificially modified locusts on the world to eat all the crops except the ones generated by his own company. He does this to force the whole world to starvation where millions would die. He does this to force the world to buy crops generated by his own company or face starvation because he wants to increase his profits. Despite not showing any sadism, he still qualifies as Pure Evil because, like Wat Tambor, he doesn't have any genuine redeeming qualities, no Freudian Excuse which could explain his greed in the present and all of his actions are motivated by a desire to increase his profits. And another example of a non-sadistic Pure Evil villain is Petyr Baelish from Game of Thrones (his book counterpart is Near Pure Evil due to some minor preventions).

Cersei doesn't qualify as Pure Evil or Near Pure Evil for the following reasons: She loves her family members except for Tyrion (more specifically, her children,her father, Tywin and her mother, Joanna). She is very protective of her children, doesn't want them to die and constantly fears for their safety. When her son Joffrey dies, she breaks down over his corpse and cries and then she stays with his corpse and mourns it for days. At one point, she has a nice dream where Joffrey is still alive and she marries her brother, Jaime. She is angry when Tyrion sends her daughter, Myrcella, to Dorn without her permission and starts threatening him. She breaks down into tears when he mentions that if Myrcella stays, she could be killed in the coming battle. She is also shocked when she learns that Myrcella has lost one of her ears. In the fourth book she gets very protective of her son, Tommen, after the death of Joffrey. When Tommen chokes on his wine, she is afraid that someone had poisoned him, quickly stands up and goes to him to help. When she discovers that no one has poisoned him, she goes away and starts crying. During her imprisonment by the Faith Militant, she constantly thinks about her son and how she wants to go back to him. When she goes back to him, she starts spending a lot more time with him than ever before because she was relieved to see him again after her long imprisonment. At one point, she had a nightmare where Tyrion has tied her up. She begs him to spare her kids, even though in the dream her own life is in danger. She loves her father as she wants his respect, constantly thinks about what he would do and is sad when he dies. She loves her mother. She blames her younger brother, Tyrion, for "killing" her mother because this is what she saw from her father. She also mentions to Sansa that when she was a little girl she prayed to the Gods to give her mother back. Cersei is too tragic to be Near Pure Evil: She lost her mother at the age of 7 which has left her traumatized. At the age of 10, Cersei received a prophecy from Maggy that all of her kids would die, that a younger and more baeutiful queen would take everything she holds dear and then Cersei herself would be killed by her younger brother. This made Cersei very paranoid about her life and the lives of her children, made her even more abusive towards Tyrion because she believes that he is the younger brother from the prophecy and caused her to become distrustful towards most other people. A lot of the crimes she commits are an attempt to prevent this prophecy from happening and saving her children and herself. Her father Tywin was neglectful most of the time, barely displayed any parental love aside from a few occasions and he was a brutal ruler who taught his kids that they should be merciless, that they shouldn't care about morality only about the end results and that they should look down on small folk or anyone who isn't a Lannister. He is also strict with his expectations of her and doesn't allow her to deviate in any way from what he envisions her to be but at the same time he never disciplines her on how she should treat other people properly, never corrects her behaviour and even makes her believe that her younger brother Tyrion "killed" her mother due to simply being born which causes her to hate him. Even after she becomes a Queen, he still acts in a controlling way towards her and orders her around despite the fact she outranks him, doesn't seem to care a lot about how her husband treats her or if she is happy with her life, doesn't take her opinions into consideration most of the time and tries to force her into a second marriage despite Cersei's immense displeasure, which would also deprive her of her position as regent to King Joffrey and force her into another position where she is a powerless housewife to someone else, just because Tywin wants to increase his own power with him possibly even wanting to take the regency for himself away from Cersei. Her upbringing as Tywin's daughter causes her to have a very warped view of the world and because she feels unappreciated by her father and suffers from insecurities, she tries to emulate him in any way she can to win his approval. She was married to Robert Baratheon, who cheated on her and abused her by sometimes even raping her which also has an affect on her because she feels powerless during the rapes and she doesn't want this to happen again. The affect the rapes have on her is displayed when she tries to force herself on another woman because she wants to feel powerful and learn what Robert has felt when he had done that to her but stops at the last moment because she realizes she doesn't feel enjoyment and just feels empty. In the world of Westeros if it's discovered that she had cheated on her husband with Jaime, she and all of her kids would be executed while her husband also cheats on her all the time with dozens of different women which displays the double standards of Westerosi laws. The reason why she kills Robert and Ned is because she wants to protect her life and the life of her kids from execution. In general, she has suffered from systematic sexism throughout her whole life starting from childhood because she was born in a highly sexist society where women are inferior to men and she and Jaime were treated differently because of their gender. Jaime was groomed to become the heir to Casterly Rock and was taught how to rule and fight while she was groomed to be married off and be a housewife despite being older than her brother. When she was married to her husband, she also suffered from the sexism of her society because her husband was allowed to cheat on her while if she was caught cheating, she and her entire family would be executed. She was also raped because there was no definition of marital rape in Westeros. She suffers from a lot of insecurities (about being a woman, winning her father's approval, being fit to rule, etc.). She also has insecurities about not having any friends and she immediately decides to befriend the first woman she meets in the fourth book simply because she doesn't want to feel lonely. On one occasion, after Ned gives her a chance to escape with her children from the city before he reports to Robert that she had been cheating on him, Cersei tells him that because of this she would allow him to go back to Winterfell and live out the rest of his life if he kneels to Joffrey and swears fealty to him. Ned doesn't do it and he ends up dead for this reason, but there is no indication Cersei wouldn't have kept her word if he had accepted and she still doesn't agree with Joffrey executing him. Even though she is rude to Sansa, she still tries to give her advice about how to rule as a Queen, about the specifics of the female body and that she shouldn't love too many people or else she would get hurt. It's implied that the reason for this is because Cersei sees Sansa as a younger and more inexperienced version of herself. While, Cersei lates desires to execute Sansa because she believes that Sansa was involved in Joffrey's death, it doesn't entirely subvert her prevention because during her Walk of Shame, she still noticebly feels bad about how things turned out and that Cersei could have provided a good marriage for her if Joffrey hadn't beheaded her father. Sansa is also one of the people Cersei hallucinates about which indicates that she feels guilty about how she treated her She is capable of feeling remorse on certain occasions. After the torture of the Blue Bard, she feels bad for him and tries to justify herself even if she doesn't take moral responsibility for what she did, and for a moment she even considers stopping his torture. She is also played for sympathy a lot as shown by the above examples. Aside from the examples that are already mentioned, during the Walk of Shame when she paraded naked through the streets of the city and the common people throw things at her, the story tries to frame the moment as an "Alas. Poor Villain" by presenting it from Cersei's point of view, presenting it in excrusiating detail, showing how it affects her psyche. The story clearly tries to make the readers feel bad for her during this chapter.

I was wondering in which morality category would you place these 5 members of the Lannister family Tywin, Cersei, Tyrion, Jaime and Joffrey (I know Joffrey is not really a Lannister because he thinks of himself as a Baratheon, but he technically is a Lannister because his real father is Jaime, so I am including him). For those of you who don’t know, there are several wikis for villains. One of them is called Pure Evil wiki (which, in short, is about villains with no redeeming or sympathetic qualities), the second is called Near Pure Evil wiki (Which, in short, is about villains with almost no redeeming or sympathetic qualities but they still can’t qualify for the Pure Evil wiki for some reason. However, there are other cases where a villain can be Near Pure Evil even if they don't have any redeemable qualities like slightly lacking moral agency or slightly failing the heinous standard of the series because they don't go the extra mile in terms of crimes). There is also a third wiki called the Inconsistently Heinous wiki (which, in short, is about characters who have committed awful crimes, but they still have too many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and excuses for their actions to qualify as Pure Evil or Near Pure Evil). The name “Inconsistently Heinous” means that the characters are too inconsistent in their heinousness to be Near Pure Evil and they need to have many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and/or excuses for their actions or something else which disqualifies them from being Near Pure Evil. Often times Inconsistently Heinous characters can even be morally ambiguous heroes in the stories they are depicted, but they also do some bad things along the way. The Villainous Benchmark wiki is for characters who do some bad stuff, but can't be listed on the Near Pure Evil wiki (either because their actions are really, really tame or because they have too many sympathetic qualities, but also don't do quite enough to be listed as Inconsistently Heinous). Here is how the Lannister members are listed: Pure Evil: Joffrey (There is absolutely nothing redeemable or sympathetic about him and while there are some slight indications of a sympathetic past, those things are not really treated with enough relevance by the story to be a disqualifier) Near Pure Evil: Tywin (Cares about some of his family members like his father, brother and wife and has a bit of a Freudian Excuse, but overall there aren't a lot of sympathetic qualities. He doesn't care about the people he rules over, so the fact he is a good administrator also doesn't serve as a redeeming quality because he is simply doing it to acquire more power for himself, not to mention as a whole he has caused far more misery and death than prosperity either way and it's very debatable if he cares about any of his children.) Inconsistently Heinous: Cersei and Tyrion (their actions cross some moral boundaries, but they both have way too many sympathetic and redeeming quaities to be Pure Evil or Near Pure Evil and are too affected by their tragic backstories) Villainous Benchmark: Jaime (he does some bad things like trying to murder a child but not quite bad enough to be Inconsistently Heinous and he goes through something resembling a redemption and is way too sympathetic to be Pure Evil or Near Pure Evil either way) So, how do you feel about this moral scaling and would you make any changes to it?

For those of you who don’t know, there are several wikis for villains. One of them is called Pure Evil wiki (which, in short, is about villains with no redeeming or sympathetic qualities), the second is called Near Pure Evil wiki (Which, in short, is about villains with almost no redeeming or sympathetic qualities but they still can’t qualify for the Pure Evil wiki for some reason. However, there are other cases where a villain can be Near Pure Evil even if they don't have any redeemable qualities like slightly lacking moral agency or slightly failing the heinous standard of the series because they don't go the extra mile in terms of crimes). There is also a third wiki called the Inconsistently Heinous wiki (which, in short, is about characters who have committed awful crimes, but they still have too many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and excuses for their actions to qualify as Pure Evil or Near Pure Evil). The name “Inconsistently Heinous” means that the characters are too inconsistent in their heinousness to be Near Pure Evil and they need to have many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and/or excuses for their actions. Often times Inconsistently Heinous characters can even be morally ambiguous heroes in the stories they are depicted, but they also do some bad things along the way. Cersei is listed on the Inconsistently Heinous wiki due to her many redeeming and sympathetic qualities as well as the fact that her character is way too tragic to even be Near Pure Evil. Near Pure Evil characters can have some tragedies, but they shouldn't be too tragic like Cersei or otherwise they get listed as Inconsistently Heinous. To give you an idea about this wiki, the only other character from the books who is listed as Inconsistently Heinous is Tyrion Lannister because he, just like Cersei, has too many redeeming and sympathetic qualities to be Near Pure Evil. Other popular character from fiction who are listed as Inconsistently Heinous are Darth Vader from Star Wars, Walter White from Breaking Bad, the Joker from the 2019 film (most versions of the Joker are Pure Evil but this one is way too tragic to even be Near Pure Evil), Eren Yeager from Attack on Titan and others. Here is a list of the reasons why Cersei has too many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and is too tragic to even be Near Pure Evil which is copied and pasted from her page on the wiki: She loves her family members except for Tyrion (more specifically, her children,her father, Tywin and her mother, Joanna). She is very protective of her children, doesn't want them to die and constantly fears for their safety. When her son Joffrey dies, she breaks down over his corpse and cries and then she stays with his corpse and mourns it for days. At one point, she has a nice dream where Joffrey is still alive and she marries her brother, Jaime. She is angry when Tyrion sends her daughter, Myrcella, to Dorn without her permission and starts threatening him. She breaks down into tears when he mentions that if Myrcella stays, she could be killed in the coming battle. She is also shocked when she learns that Myrcella has lost one of her ears. In the fourth book she gets very protective of her son, Tommen, after the death of Joffrey. When Tommen chokes on his wine, she is afraid that someone had poisoned him, quickly stands up and goes to him to help. When she discovers that no one has poisoned him, she goes away and starts crying. During her imprisonment by the Faith Militant, she constantly thinks about her son and how she wants to go back to him. When she goes back to him, she starts spending a lot more time with him than ever before because she was relieved to see him again after her long imprisonment. At one point, she had a nightmare where Tyrion has tied her up. She begs him to spare her kids, even though in the dream her own life is in danger. She loves her father as she wants his respect, constantly thinks about what he would do and is sad when he dies. She loves her mother. She blames her younger brother, Tyrion, for "killing" her mother because this is what she saw from her father. She also mentions to Sansa that when she was a little girl she prayed to the Gods to give her mother back. Cersei is too tragic to be Near Pure Evil: She lost her mother at the age of 7 which has left her traumatized. At the age of 10, Cersei received a prophecy from Maggy that all of her kids would die, that a younger and more baeutiful queen would take everything she holds dear and then Cersei herself would be killed by her younger brother. This made Cersei very paranoid about her life and the lives of her children, made her even more abusive towards Tyrion because she believes that he is the younger brother from the prophecy and caused her to become distrustful towards most other people. A lot of the crimes she commits are an attempt to prevent this prophecy from happening and saving her children and herself. Her father Tywin was neglectful most of the time, barely displayed any parental love aside from a few occasions and he was a brutal ruler who taught his kids that they should be merciless, that they shouldn't care about morality only about the end results and that they should look down on small folk or anyone who isn't a Lannister. He is also strict with his expectations of her and doesn't allow her to deviate in any way from what he envisions her to be but at the same time he never disciplines her on how she should treat other people properly, never corrects her behaviour and even makes her believe that her younger brother Tyrion "killed" her mother due to simply being born which causes her to hate him. Even after she becomes a Queen, he still acts in a controlling way towards her and orders her around despite the fact she outranks him, doesn't seem to care a lot about how her husband treats her or if she is happy with her life, doesn't take her opinions into consideration most of the time and tries to force her into a second marriage despite Cersei's immense displeasure, which would also deprive her of her position as regent to King Joffrey and force her into another position where she is a powerless housewife to someone else, just because Tywin wants to increase his own power with him possibly even wanting to take the regency for himself away from Cersei. Her upbringing as Tywin's daughter causes her to have a very warped view of the world and because she feels unappreciated by her father and suffers from insecurities, she tries to emulate him in any way she can to win his approval. She was married to Robert Baratheon, who cheated on her and abused her by sometimes even raping her which also has an affect on her because she feels powerless during the rapes and she doesn't want this to happen again. The affect the rapes have on her is displayed when she tries to force herself on another woman because she wants to feel powerful and learn what Robert has felt when he had done that to her but stops at the last moment because she realizes she doesn't feel enjoyment and just feels empty. In the world of Westeros if it's discovered that she had cheated on her husband with Jaime, she and all of her kids would be executed while her husband also cheats on her all the time with dozens of different women which displays the double standards of Westerosi laws. The reason why she kills Robert and Ned is because she wants to protect her life and the life of her kids from execution. In general, she has suffered from systematic sexism throughout her whole life starting from childhood because she was born in a highly sexist society where women are inferior to men and she and Jaime were treated differently because of their gender. Jaime was groomed to become the heir to Casterly Rock and was taught how to rule and fight while she was groomed to be married off and be a housewife despite being older than her brother. When she was married to her husband, she also suffered from the sexism of her society because her husband was allowed to cheat on her while if she was caught cheating, she and her entire family would be executed. She was also raped because there was no definition of marital rape in Westeros. She suffers from a lot of insecurities (about being a woman, winning her father's approval, being fit to rule, etc.). She also has insecurities about not having any friends and she immediately decides to befriend the first woman she meets in the fourth book simply because she doesn't want to feel lonely. On one occasion, after Ned gives her a chance to escape with her children from the city before he reports to Robert that she had been cheating on him, Cersei tells him that because of this she would allow him to go back to Winterfell and live out the rest of his life if he kneels to Joffrey and swears fealty to him. Ned doesn't do it and he ends up dead for this reason, but there is no indication Cersei wouldn't have kept her word if he had accepted and she still doesn't agree with Joffrey executing him. Even though she is rude to Sansa, she still tries to give her advice about how to rule as a Queen, about the specifics of the female body and that she shouldn't love too many people or else she would get hurt. It's implied that the reason for this is because Cersei sees Sansa as a younger and more inexperienced version of herself. While, Cersei lates desires to execute Sansa because she believes that Sansa was involved in Joffrey's death, it doesn't entirely subvert her prevention because during her Walk of Shame, she still noticebly feels bad about how things turned out and that Cersei could have provided a good marriage for her if Joffrey hadn't beheaded her father. Sansa is also one of the people Cersei hallucinates about which indicates that she feels guilty about how she treated her She is capable of feeling remorse on certain occasions. After the torture of the Blue Bard, she feels bad for him and tries to justify herself even if she doesn't take moral responsibility for what she did, and for a moment she even considers stopping his torture. She is also played for sympathy a lot as shown by the above examples. Aside from the examples that are already mentioned, during the Walk of Shame when she paraded naked through the streets of the city and the common people throw things at her, the story tries to frame the moment as an "Alas. Poor Villain" by presenting it from Cersei's point of view, presenting it in excrusiating detail, showing how it affects her psyche. The story clearly tries to make the readers feel bad for her during this chapter. So, do you agree with the decision to list Cersei as Inconsistently Heinous or not?

For those of you who don’t know, there are several wikis for villains. One of them is called Pure Evil wiki (which, in short, is about villains with no redeeming or sympathetic qualities), the second is called Near Pure Evil wiki (Which, in short, is about villains with almost no redeeming or sympathetic qualities but they still can’t qualify for the Pure Evil wiki for some reason. However, there are other cases where a villain can be Near Pure Evil even if they don't have any redeemable qualities like slightly lacking moral agency or slightly failing the heinous standard of the series because they don't go the extra mile in terms of crimes). There is also a third wiki called the Inconsistently Heinous wiki (which, in short, is about characters who have committed awful crimes, but they still have too many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and excuses for their actions to qualify as Pure Evil or Near Pure Evil). The name “Inconsistently Heinous” means that the characters are too inconsistent in their heinousness to be Near Pure Evil and they need to have many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and/or excuses for their actions. Often times Inconsistently Heinous characters can even be morally ambiguous heroes in the stories they are depicted, but they also do some bad things along the way. Tywin is listed on the Near Pure Evil wiki due to his minor Freudian Excuse and because he seems to have some slight feelings for some members of his family but they are considered to be minor preventions. Here is a list of the crimes he has committed as well as some other reasons which make him close to being Pure Evil which is copied and pasted from his page on the wiki: Exclusive to the Books Forced his father's mistress to perform a Walk of Shame across all of Lannisport, saying to everyone that she is a golddigger when he caught her wearing his mother's jewels. She is then banished from the city with no clothes or money which means she presumably dies. While he had Tysha gang-raped in both versions, in the books it is even worse, as he also made Tyrion join in, and it is confirmed later on that she was set up for Tyrion by Jaime as Tywin had lied, but that she presumably genuinely loved him. Hangs the innkepeer of the inn where Tyrion was kidnapped even though she had nothing to do with the kidnapping. Agrees to Tyrion's plan to arm the mountain clans with weapons and armor which makes him indirectly responsible for their raids against the people of the Vale. Hires a notoriously psychopathic band of mercenaries called the Brave Companions who are infamous for their sadistic cruelty. He commands them to join Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch's men in pillaging the Riverlands. These raids claim countless lives with many people raped, tortured and killed and many villages destroyed. Punishes all the soldiers who fled during the Battle of Blackwater by having their knees broken, commenting that when people see them begging on the streets of King's Landing, it would serve as a warning to everyone. Listens to Littlefinger's idea to present the 12-year-old Jeyne Poole as Sansa Stark and give her to Roose Bolton, so she can be married to his son Ramsay. This makes the two of them indirectly responsible for the torture and abuse Ramsay inflicts on her. Exclusive to the TV series When Ned Stark is wounded in a duel with Jaime, Tywin asks his son why Ned is still alive, and Jaime responds by saying that killing him like that would be dishonorable, and Tywin doesn't care. When one of his men, Amory Lorch, was shot by a poisoned dart, he vainly suspecting that the arrow was intended to reach him and allowed the hanging of many of his men to find the shooter. Both Pettily abusing Tyrion his whole childhood and afterwards, at one point even having Tysha, a teenage girl who Tyrion was in love with, gang-raped just to punish him. He was additionally a bad parent to Jaime and Cersei, as he was often away from them as kids in King's landing, mostly having his servants raise them, was disciplinary and controlling towards them, and as adults, he mostly tries to use them as tools to continue his legacy. This also makes their present villainy as adults at least partially Tywin's fault. Having the Reynes and the Tarbecks wiped out because they weren't paying back debts and slighted House Lannister along with all their servants and peasants, which also includes children and even infants, and wrote a song to gloat about it. During Robert's Rebellion, he stayed neutral for most of the war, only joining the rebellion once it was all but ensured that Robert would win, he joined by feigning loyalty to Aerys, convincing him to open the gates, and the sacking the city allowed his men to rape and kill throughout. To prove he was loyal to Robert and his cause, he had The Mountain and Amory Lorch murder the infant Aegon and the little girl Rhaenys Targaryen so there would be no challengers to the iron throne, and while he himself denies it, it is possible that he had The Mountain rape and murder Elia Martell as well, presumably out of petty revenge for her marrying Rhaegar instead. When Tyrion is taken prisoner by Catelyn Stark, even though Tywin hates Tyrion, he still tries to get him back because that would be bad for the reputation of House Lannister if he didn't. He does so by sending The Mountain and his army to rape, pillage, and burn the Riverlands, and he doesn't even bother to care as to why Tyrion was kidnapped. He led his men to fighting against Robb Stark and tried to crush the north army, which indirectly also caused his son to be taken prisoner. It is possible that he also order his men to find where the Brotherhood without Banners is to destroy them. During gathering of generals about the war in Stark, he erupts in rage at the advice of those present and orders one of them to return to his wife, before sending her his head. Has people taken prisoner and used for labor at Harrenhal. While in the TV series he did object to the pointless torturing there, that was only because it would be a better use of resources to put them to work instead of torturing them. Forces Tyrion and Cersei into marriage alliances with Sansa and Loras respectively even though his own children don't want it. And it is also pretty hypocritical since Tywin himself married for love, and never remarried after Joanna's death. Along with Walder Frey and Roose Bolton, he orchestrates the Red Wedding, one of the most infamous moments in the whole franchise, and one of the darkest and most tragic in all of literature and television today, resulting in the deaths of Robb Stark, Catelyn Stark, the pregnant Talisa Stark, the direwolf Grey Wind, and thousands of people who were accompanying them. Even if the deaths themselves were ignored, the act itself was thoroughly dishonorable; he had them butchered while they were celebrating and bonding, and at a wedding, and while they were supposed to be protected by guest right. He later tries to justify it by asking how it is "more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle then a dozen at dinner". Unwittingly, this ends up making Westeros an even more dangerous place now that the sacred custom of guest right was broken, meaning a guest and host were no longer safe from each other under the same roof. When Tyrion asks when he has ever done anything not for himself, but solely for the benefit of his family, an example he can think of is with Tyrion. He claims that when Tyrion was born, he attempted to take him to he sea where he would drown to death, though he changed his mind because Tyrion was still his son and a Lannister. He angrily disowns Jaime after the latter makes it clear that he is going to remain in the Kingsguard. When Tyrion is accused of killing Joffrey, Tywin is heavily implied to doubt Tyrion's guilt but still tries to get rid of him anyway, either by exiling him to the Night's Watch or execution. And during his trial, he has several people bear false witness against him. He also tried to gave Sansa to execution in the same, even order to close the port to prevent her from escaping. Puts a bounty on Sandor's head after he helps kill Polliver and his men at the inn. Also tries to lure Ser Barristan Selmy back to Winterfell so that he won't help Daenerys. When Ser Gregor brutally crushes Prince Oberyn's head with his bare hands and boasts about killing Elia Martell's children, then raping and killing her as well during Tyrion's trial by combat, Tywin doesn't look particularly shocked or disgusted and seems pretty unfazed by it, calmly sentencing Tyrion to death. Even though he hates whores, he has no problems sleeping with with Shae, presumably to spite Tyrion. It is also seen that he was going kill Shae if she didn't helped him testify against Tyrion. In his last confrontation with Tyrion, he belittles him and mocks him and admits that he has always wanted him dead, and when Tyrion fires a crossbow at him, Tywin angrily proclaims that Tyrion is not his son. His honor and standards are both pretty much just pragmatic and sometimes hypocritical, like his using people at Harrenhal as labor instead of pointlessly torturing them, the few times he recognizes Tyrion's brillance are pragmatic, he doesn't want Joffrey being mindlessly bloodthirsty and sadistic because he knows Joffrey isn't going to last very long that way, which he is right about, and that is bad for his family's reputation, he most likely wants Tyrion sent to night's watch so he won't viewed as a kinslayer by the public, and he was upset when Ned Stark was executed only because it sent them into a pointless war when Ned could have made a valuable hostage. His love for Jaime and Cersei based more on his legacy and political power rather than genuine love, which causes the lack of a truly loving relationship no doubt to play a significant role to not only to Jaime and Cersei's present villainy as adults, but also to their incestuous relationship. Even Cersei states in-universe that Tywin cares more about his legacy than his actual children. Considering his annihilation of the Reynes and Tarbecks, the Sacking of King's Landing, his ravaging of the Riverlands and being one of the main architects of the Red Wedding, Tywin Lannister can be considered one of the worst (if not the worst) war criminals in the series. Here are also his moral event horizons that are listed on his infobox on his Near Pure Evil page: Pettily abusing Tyrion his whole life, even having Tysha gang-raped to spite him. Having the Reynes and Tarbecks annihilated. Sacking King's Landing while also having Aegon and Rhaenys Targaryen, and possibly Elia Martell killed by the Mountain. Sending The Mountain and his army to terrorize the Riverlands. Orchestrating the Red Wedding. So, do you agree with the decision to list Tywin as Near Pure Evil or not?

It doesn't justify everything she does (though it justifies some of her actions) but it is an excuse for her because you can't realistically expect someone who has lived through all of these things to act in any other way than what she is doing. It's not like any of us have experienced all these things. And, like I said, her murder of Robert and her actions against Ned are perfectly justifiable because otherwise she and her children would have been executed and Robert raped her, so I don't blame her at all for that. Also, I don't really understand why you are so focused on "how bad Cersei is" when she is no worse than a lot of other caracters in Westeros who also do horrible things but are excused and loved by the fans for different reasons. Daenerys does equally horrible things like burning a woman alive for taking revenge against the person who slaughtered her town, tortured two kids in front of their father and crusified 163 random people without even asking if they are guilty or not but you make excuses for her and don't talk about how her circumstances don't justify her atrocities. Cersei has power over millions of people and yet, she just tortures and kills a relatively low number of people and only does it when she thinks she can save her children in that way which makes her tame in terms of Westerosi rulers like Aerys or Maegor, so it's not like she is extraordinarily worse than most other characters in the series she just has an unpleasant personality and that's why fans don't sympathize with her as much as they do with other characters even though she doesn't do worse things.

You seem to think that just because she was born in a rich family she had a wonderful life. Azula from Avatar: The Last Airbender is also born in the Fire Nation royal family and she is the Princesses of the Fire Nation and she is also beautiful. Her father Ozai outwardly favors her compared to her brother Zuko whom he abuses more visibly. Azula also gets to command soldiers in battle and they obey her orders. Sounds like she has an easy life? Not so quite? Her father Ozai doesn't actually love her in the genuine way in which a parent should love their child. In fact, on one occasion he threatens his wife that he would kill both Azula and Zuko if his wife doesn't do as he says which shows he is willing to sacrifice even Azula's life if it means achieving his goals (yep, he really does say he is going to kill his own children if his wife doesn't do as he asks in a comic). He also puts immense pressure on her to become perfect which is why Azula excels at training and she has become a firebending prodigy at the age of 14. She also leads soldiers into battle and attends military meeting as a young teen due to her father demanding this of her. Because of this, she literally has no social life and feels really awkward whenever she tries to speak to her peers as an equal and not as their commanding officer. When she tries to get a boyfriend and to get one of the boys at a party to like, she starts cracking some really dumb jokes, she acts socially awkward throughout their conversation and she tries to impress him with talks about world domination which scares him off. She is also very rude and commanding most of the time because her father taught her that friendships don't matter and she needs to dominate others because that's the only way in which she can interact with other human beings. Because of this, she is deeply unhappy due to having no real friends because she can't open up to people. Ozai has drilled into her head the ideas that she should dominate everyone else and that she shouldn't disappoint him in any way which causes her to act in anti-social ways from a young age. She is also afraid that if she is not "perfect" in her father's eyes, he is going to start treating the same way in which he treats Zuko, the unfavorable child in their family, which causes her to join in mocking Zuko to assert that she is the dominant sibling since she doesn't want to lose that position in her father's eyes and get abused the same way Zuko does because her father measures the favoritism he gives her through her accomplishments and doesn't have any genuine love for her. At one point, she even shouts with fear at him that "he can't treat her like Zuko" which shows that she fears that. On top of that, her mother who is kind-hearted, favors Zuko more than her which causes her to be jeaous of him and to seek her father's approval even more and act in the exact way he wants to win it. Then, at one point, her mother runs away and leaves them which makes Azula even more sad. Then, as the story progresses, her "friends" betray her and join her enemies, her father leaves her behind as the next Fire Lord but he himself goes to claim the mantle of Emperor of the world which causes Azula to think he has abandoned her because he has no more use of her and she gets defeated by a redeemed Zuko which causes her to have a mental breakdown at the age of 14 because she had always been taught that her task in life if to be perfect to gain her father's favor and "affection" and she gets defeated by her brother whom she always believed was weaker than her which shatters her whole worldview and makes her feel miserable due to being unable to live up to her father's standarsds and she starts sobbing not because she is afraid of the consequences, but she has extreme insecurities feels her life has no meaning if she is not perfect and doesn't bring glory to her father because that's how her father has conditioned her to think and that he doesn't love her and that nobody would love her. After reading this, do you really want to tell me that you think someone like Azula had it easy just because she was born in the royal family and was beautiful when she literally has a mental breakdown at the age of 14 and can't make any friends due to how impaired her social skills are due to her upbringing? The reason why I am making this comparison is because Cersei and Azula do have some similarities in terms of personality and Tywin is a very similar father to Ozai albeit not quite as horrible. He doesn't discipline her on how they should act in socially acceptable ways and instead teaches her that murdering people is acceptable, he actively encourages her to look down on anyone who isn't a Lannister and not make friends with anyone outside the House, he barely shows her any familial love except on very rare occasions, he pushes her to be "perfect" and beautiful but doesn't encourage any other qualities in her even though Cersei wants to do something wth her life as seen when she and Jaime switch clothes, he teaches her to hate her younger brother and blame him for her mother's death and Cersei knows that if Tywin is not proud of her and she is not "perfect", he will stop favoring her and will start treating her in a similar manner in which he treats Tyrion. The scene where he tries to marry her off without even taking into consideration her opinion and the fact he must have heard at least something about how Robert treated her (even if not about the rapes, at least about how he disrespects her in public) but doesn't seem to care that much and just wants to marry her off to someone else to increase his own power shows to me how much he truly respects. This is not even talking about the other tragedies Cersei suffered in her life like losing her mother at a very young age, the general sexism she has to deal with her whole life and how she has a twin brother to always remind her how he gets treated compared to her, her spending most of her life fearing for her life and the lives of her children because of Maggy's prophecy which as we seen in AFFC had a very huge toll on her mental health and a lot of the atrocities she commits are done to prevent that prophecy from happening and to save herself and her children, being raped repeatedly for years by her husband and the fact she had to live in fear throughout her whole marriage that if her affair with Jaime gets discovered, she, Jaime and their children would get executed. Not everything is about how rich someone is as characters like Azula and Cersei show.

I literally quoted a passage from AFFC when you claimed that a Queen wouldn't be executed for simply cheating on her husband and managed to prove to you that you are wrong. And the reason why I am quoting from these sources is because I agree with their system and I participate there, so I know how they operate and they don't allow their emotions to get in the way of analyzing characters.

Theon's torture, Jaime losing his hand, Tyrion and Jorah Mormont being sold into slavery and Cersei's own Walk of Shame are included in the text precisely because the author wants to show that we shouldn't enjoy the suffering of people who may have done bad things and we may not like because we don't know what they are going through and how we would act in their situation. All of these three situations are portrayed with sympathy by the text and there are parallels to draw between them which shows that this is a theme Martin wants to explore. In fact, in many ways Cersei is actually the female equivalent of Tyrion, Jaime and Theon but gets a lot less sympathy from audiences probably because she is a female, so they scrutinize her bad qualities a lot more. Cersei will probably die considering her prophecy, but GRRM is going to portray her death in a way where the text would try to make the readers feel sorry for her in similar manner to how her Walk of Shame is also portrayed. If you are hoping that her death is going to be treated as something for you to enjoy by the text, you will be disappointed because that's not GRRM's style of writing. And for the record, I am not looking forward to Ramsay getting comeuppance because I think it's stupid, though if something terrible happens to him, I am not going to sympathize but I am also not going to enjoy it because I don't think it's right. I aso think it's stupid to look forward to a fictional character suffering in any way and I have better things to do than that (like studying or actually trying to analyze the themes of the story).

Yeah, because you don't have enough brain and you are completely unable to do critical thinking and to read the text which is why you make Cersei to be much worse than she actually is and you minmize how traumatic her backstory is. If you were able to read the themes of the story, you would understand that enjoying someone else's misery is something GRRM doesn't want us to engage in and finds it disgusting especially if you enjoy the misery of an abuse victim like Cersei who is simply lashing out at the world.

And did you also hope for Robb Stark to get a comeuppance for pillaging the Westerlands and killing way more people than Cersei? Do you hope for Arya Stark to get comeuppance for murdering people? Do you hope for Daenerys to get comeuppance for burning alive a woman who was trying to avenge the slaughter of her people, tortured two kids in front of their father and crusified 163 people who were chosen randomly just to avenge the crimes committed by a few people. Do you hope for Jaime to get comeuppance for pushing a kid from a tower and raping his sister in front of their son's corpse? And I could go on. Nearly every character has done something bad in this series and Cersei is not that different than the average "anti-hero" in terms of morality. Everything Cersei has done is to protect the lives of herself and her children and she has suffered a lot throughout her whole life, so she has a bigger excuse than some of the characters I just listed. If she didn't think the lives of her children were in danger and wasn't messed up by all the emotional abuse Tywin put her through as well as the sexual abuse Robert put her through she would have been a good person (please, don't tell me she had it better than 99% of women because that's simply not true and it shows you are only interested in how rich someone is without considering that rich or not, abuse is still abuse and I don't recall any of the other women in the series being molded and emotionally abused by a sexist father Tywin the way Cersei is (certainly the Stark girls don't have this as an excuse because they have Ned as a father) or being raped for 14 years straight which is enough to mess up anyone). There is also the whole small thing with Cersei living in constant fear that she and her children are going to die if she doesn't do something about which is something NO other woman has suffered through in the series. The double standard some fans have for characters they like and characters they don't like is just ridiculous.

For those of you who don’t know, there are several wikis for villains. One of them is called Pure Evil wiki (which, in short, is about villains with no redeeming or sympathetic qualities), the second is called Near Pure Evil wiki (Which, in short, is about villains with almost no redeeming or sympathetic qualities but they still can’t qualify for the Pure Evil wiki for some reason. However, there are other cases where a villain can be Near Pure Evil even if they don't have any redeemable qualities like slightly lacking moral agency or slightly failing the heinous standard of the series because they don't go the extra mile in terms of crimes). There is also a third wiki called the Inconsistently Heinous wiki (which, in short, is about characters who have committed awful crimes, but they still have too many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and excuses for their actions to qualify as Pure Evil or Near Pure Evil). The name “Inconsistently Heinous” means that the characters are too inconsistent in their heinousness to be Near Pure Evil and they need to have many redeeming and sympathetic qualities and/or excuses for their actions. Often times Inconsistently Heinous characters can even be morally ambiguous heroes in the stories they are depicted, but they also do some bad things along the way. Littlefinger is listed on the Near Pure Evil wiki due to his minor Freudian Excuse and because he seems to have some slight feelings for Catelyn and Sansa but they are considered to be minor preventions. Here is a list of the crimes he has committed which is copied and pasted from his page on the wiki: He convinces Lysa Arryn to poison her husband John Arryn. He persuades Lysa Arryn to send a letter to her sister Catelyn saying the Lannisters poisoned her husband to increase tensions between the Starks and Lannisters. He's lying to Catelyn that the dagger the killer attacked Bran with belongs to Tyrion Lannister. After Catelyn captures Tyrion, his father Tywin attacks the Riverlands in retaliation and kills thousands of villagers. This further escalates the poor relations between the Starks and Lannisters. It's also very likely that the person who was sent to murder Bran with the expensive dagger is actually sent by Littlefinger himself considering that he himself admits to Catelyn that the dagger used to belong to him, but then lies that he lost it to Tyrion in a bet. He instructed Lysa Arryn to execute Tyrion Lannister on false charges even though they both know he hasn't tried to kill Bran to escalate the tensions between the Houses even more. He pretends to be friends with Ned Stark and does everything in his power to make Ned aware that Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen are actually children of Queen Cersei Lannister and her brother and don't belong to Robert Baratheon. This causes Ned to try and arrest Cersei. Littlefinger pretends to help Ned by bribing the City Watch, but instead he pays them to fight on Cersei's side and he puts a knife to Ned's neck which leads to Ned's arrest and Ned's execution as well as the deaths of many Stark loyalists who were killed by the City Watch. He does all this just to create tensions between Stark and Lannister and to devastate the Seven Kingdoms with a civil war which is why hundreds of thousands of people died, giving him one of the biggest kill counts in the novel series. Because of his actions, the Starks wrongly think that the Lannisters had poisoned John Arryn, they wrongly think that the Lannisters were the ones who sent the man with the dagger to kill Bran which causes Catelyn to arrest Tyrion and try to execute him which in turn causes Tywin Lannister to invade the Riverlands and because of Littlefinger's actions, Ned Stark becomes a Hand to Robert Baratheon and gets executed while most of his men are killed which causes Robb Stark to declare war on House Lannister. He writes a letter to Lysa Arryn where he tells her that she should keep her entire army inside the Vale and not help her nephew Robb Stark, even after the latter asks her for help. As a result, the Starks lose the war against the Lannisters and some of them are slaughtered, just as Littlefinger had predicted. He conspires with Olenna Tyrell to poison Joffrey, although at first, it seems like a redeeming quality, he only does it to further his ambitions and he doesn't need Joffrey anymore. He hired Dontos Hollard to rescue Sansa Stark from King's Landing and then killed him. He makes sure that Tyrion (beside Sansa) is framed for Joffrey’s murder and sentenced to death. After marrying Lysa Arryn, he manipulates her and pretends to love her, when in fact, he only married her to gain control of the Vale. As soon as he's offered a chance, he pushes her down the Moon's Door and she dies. He takes 12-year-old Jeyne Poole to forcibly turn her into a prostitute and whips her, also allowing his clients to rape her. He then offers to Tywin Lannister that he should present her as Arya Stark and give her to the Boltons to marry Ramsay which makes the two of them indirectly responsible for the torture and abuse Ramsay puts her through. It's implied that he treats the rest of his prostitutes in a similar manner. He frames an innocent singer for killing Lysa, then blinds him, rips off several of his fingers, and later executes him. When he wants to win over one of the lords of Vale, knowing he is a pedophile, he plans to offer him little boys without worrying about them being raped. Here are also his two moral event horizons that are listed on his infobox on his Near Pure Evil page: Orchestrating the War of Five Kings. Turning the teenage Jeyne Poole into a prostitute against her will and having her tortured and raped and later arranging her abusive marriage to Ramsay Bolton. So, do you agree with the decision to list Littlefinger as Near Pure Evil or not?

It matters because it shows she is a better person than Tywin who doesn't feel bad at all as far as we know. It's better to feel bad about your actions even if you still do them to save your children than not to feel any guilt at all and commit atrocities simply to increase your political power.

Cersei is perfectly justified in killing Robert or anyone who endangers the lives of her children and is not morally obliged to follow Westerosi laws when they are discriminatory. I will use an example from one of the Warcraft books called The Day of the Dragon. In it, the Orc warlock called Nekros Skullcrusher uses an ancient artifact to subject the Red Dragon Queen, Alexstrasza as well as her dragon husbands to his will. He enslaves them in his fortress keeping them under horrible conditions where all but one of Alexstrasza's husbands die during the captivity. Keep in mind that dragons in the Warcraft universe are capable of speech and are much more intelligent and wise than humans, so they are sentient beings and most dragons in Warcraft are benevolent and Nekros knows those things. Nekros constantly uses the Demon Soul to torture Alexstrasza or some of the other dragons under his care when he is displeased with them. He forces Alexstrasza and her husbands to constantly mate with each other under threat of torture (this does constitute rape considering that Nekros is forcing sentient beings to have sex with each other when they don't want to). Nekros' goal is to make Alextrasza breed countless eggs from which new dragons would come out. Nekros then takes the newborn baby dragons and uses his powers to artificially increase their age, so they can be used as mounts by his Orcs, so they can fight against the Humans. Many of the dragons die in battles and if they are injured even slightly, Nekros kills the dragons because he doesn't want to waste resources with their recovery and he knows he has endless supply of dragon eggs through Alexstrasza. On some occasions, when Alexstrasza wants to kill herself by starving to death or causes other problems, Nekros takes her eggs and starts breaking them in front of her to force her to comply with his demands because she loves her children and doesn't want any harm to come to them. This Orc even has a Complete Monster entry on TV Tropes: Nekros Skullcrusher is a bitter warlock and the second-in-command of the Dragonmaw clan. Entrusted with the Demon Soul, Nekros led the capture of Dragon Queen Alexstrasza, torturing her physically and psychologically with the artifact. Enslaving her and her last consort, Nekros forces them to mate and breed countless eggs. Aging the baby dragons into weapons, Nekros uses them as mounts for the orcs and ultimately Cannon Fodder, having them slaughtered when injured. Forcing Alexstrasza's compliance by destroying her eggs if she refuses, Nekros plans to use her to breed a new force so the Dragonmaw clan might fight to the absolute last. So, when Alexstrasza is actually freed, she devours Nekros alive while she screams angrily: "Nekros! you told them to kill my children! My children!" According to Orc rules, Alexstrasza has committed a crime by murdering Nekros because they see her as simply an unintelligent beast which they can use for breeding, so they can create new baby dragons for them to ride into battle. However, what is she supposed to do, leave them to enslave her, have her raped, etc? She is entitled to getting revenge for what was done to her and her children. Usually, Alexstrasza is very forgiving and benevolent (years later, she even says she would forgive her Orc captors is she ever meets them again) but after all she has been through, she is entitled to killing Nekros. In Cersei's case, Westerosi laws don't consider what was done to her wrong, but she is still entitled to revenge and she is justified to kill anyone who wants to have her children executed and not do what the sexist Westerosi laws ask of her just like how Alexstrasza is justified to not follow the Orc rules and kill her captors when she gets the chance to save her children because these rules are created to abuse them.

If you want to put all the blame for the war on an abused and raped woman for cheating on her husband, then it's only fair that the person who made sure the war would happen even when said woman tried to make a deal with him and prevent the war from happening gets a bigger share of the blame by your logic.

By that logic, Ned Stark has also killed millions by trying to arrest Cersei even after she made him an offer to leave her and her children alone and return to Winterfell. In this situation, Cersei was the one trying to stop the war from happening while Ned proceeded with his actions even though he knows his actions would cause a war.

Well, Tywin has killed tens of thousands while Cersei has killed dozens, so it's still not a fair comparison.

It matters because Cersei has very understandable excuses for her actions which shows she is not inherently evil and didn't choose her path in life and thus is redeemable and deserves a chance to make amends. The same can't be said for someone like Ramsay, Gregor, etc. It's easy to criticise someone's behavior when you have an easy life and haven't experienced what that person has gone throught but if you had gone through absolutely every single thing Cersei has gone through and din't have the easy life of living in the 21th century, you would act just like her and then you would feel bad if someone else who had a much easier life than you starts judging you for simply being a product of your toxic and abusive environment instead of offering you the compassion you need to escape from that environment and change your ways and is delighted at the thought of you "getting your comeuppance".