Jump to content


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Wolfcrow

  1. We don't have imformations, but half uncle/niece relationship has a way smaller possibillity to produce an unhealthy offspring, as cousins don't have big issues either. So, I believe with time and expiriance like irl, they knew which couples gave unhealthy kids and which did not, this is why they consider half uncle ok, but uncle not ok, bc I don't see any uncle/niece pair in first men or Andals. The High Septon had a problem with marrying Prince Maegor Targaryen to his niece Rhaena, but this is kinda stupid at his point since they were marrying Targaryen siblings, but this crossed a line? Idk. But, yeah I think they have a problem with uncle-niece and nephew-aunt weddings, only when it's your parents full sibling, otherwise it's acceptable, bc half siblings are not 1st degree relatives.
  2. But we have these kind of weddings between believers of the faith, this is what I am saying. Tywin married his cousin and I am pretty sure there are others. Yup, there are many. Paxter Redwyne and Mina Tyrell are first cousins, Rickard and Lyarra Stark were first cousins once removed, meaning not as close as the previous two, that are followers of the seven. And also, Jon and Rowena Arryn, Shella and Walter Whent, Benfrey and Jyanna Frey and Alys and Jared Frey we don't know the exact degree, but they were relatives and they are worshipers of the faith. And they were ok with Sweet Robin and Sansa Stark (first cousins) to get married. Both Andals and first men, ( the ones under the wall at least) don't have a problem with non first degree incest. And about uncles/niece it's not allowed, but it is closer kin than cousins, so maybe this is the reason and second it depends a little bit on the Septon. Same about step relation. The Stark members were married to step uncles, not uncles and it's the same as your first cousin. I am guessing the fath is ok with it too. The problem is only with first degree relatives, for both old gods followers and of the faith. In the 7 kningdoms at least and not beyond the wall, it's only about siblings and parent-kid.
  3. Are you talking about cousins or siblings? Because I don't remember followers of the old gods marrying siblings, cousins yes, but followers of the seven do that too, Tywin had married his cousin. At some point, houses south of the wall started doing this, but from the religion itself, is viewed as a sin, Ygritte was very clear about it. And I trust free folk way more as to what was the norm and what not since they have change their custom the least, bc they don't have easy exchange of ideas with other people. As I said in the rest of the comment, the cousin marriage started bc they had magical blood. They wanted to keep the blood "pure" and I am guessing they wouldn't be fans of the magic going around to everyone. The males were staying in he house, but the females were married to other houses, this is I believe is the reason they started to marry cousins. If you see in the stark family tree, most females were coming back into the main line with marriages. But, I don't remember siblings getting married and other first men followers being ok with that, and we don't know how they reacted to the Targaryens getting married, since at this point the main religion was the faith and nobody asked the North and the 1-2 houses outside of it that follow the old religion about it. But again, even if they were doing it, I doubt it was the norm and viewed as ok by the rest, the free folk said it clearly, it's not ok.
  4. Yup, but as others people said in other comments, cousin marriage is not uncommon not even irl, I am not gonna be that shocked over it, not gonna lie. Tywin also was married to his cousin, in general for high born families in a medieval setting, it's not really that shocking imo, it is actually pretty accurate. I would find it more weird if they didn't tbh, yes I know ewwww my guys, don't do that, but I got over it when at 4 years old learned that 2/3 of the Olympians were siblings and don't even let me start on the rest of the mythology and history we learn when we are 8. It is weird nowadays obviously, but the truth is that the whole thing started pretty recently, bc now we know the health problems involved, until this, let's say revelation, people were tapping their cousins pretty often and it wasn't that crazy either. Brothers and sisters were out, bc people had noticed the kids had problems, but they believed it was bc the gods didn't like it and it was a sin, so it stayed more of a moral thing with time, cousins though don't have the same problems, so people didn't ban it. I am guessing something similar is going on in asoiaf. Also, I really believe, the fact that most big families, like the Starks, have magical bloodlines plays a huge role. Yes, in the current timeline they don't believe in it etc etc, but tradition remains, Ned was the first person that married outside of the North with another major house. In general Rickard tried to expand relationships with other places, until then with the exception of Royce and Blackwood (both first men houses, with ties to magic), the Starks had marriages with other northern houses. From these only the bigger one were suitable and at this point all of them are related. Top that with the fact that men were dying all the time, so the daughters were sent all over the North, by default, the next suitable bride would be a cousin. So not a big difference which side you're related from (Mather's or father's), same shit.
  5. And not only the seven, the first men and old god followers in general think the same, that it is an abomination and a sin. The wildlings don't bang people from the same clan either, bc they consider the clan members family. Irl royals practices incest and they didn't even had special blood, in this universe that magic is inherited at least I can understand where they are coming from, disgusting yes, but at least they had a reason. Targaryens were the only Valyrians at the time that were dragon riders, Velaryons looks like they took the blood from them when the intermarriage started, but even then they preferred other Targaryens, bc dragons and dragon blood. As for the fandom, we just go with it, it's part of the world building and it's not like it's portrayed in a good light, majority of the characters don't agree with it. Cousins as other comments said it's a different story, it's legal irl too.
  6. This is something I think it's not true, tbh. The ironborn say: To me sounds like the believers of R'llor would say, not ironborn, but they do. Also, when you're drowning or inhale salt water it burns. I think that the trees and the water is in the middle of whatever opposites we have, this is why they have many contradicting elements.
  7. She is wearing the casual crystals that Septas wear though, since crystals are in their worship and are holy. The rubies and other gems used from Mel and other people we have seen, are at some point highlighted, bc they are big and they light and shimmer in ways, that many people descibed as magical and mesmerising, plus they seem to keep them on at all time for the illusion o work. The crystal on her neck is described once and it was to put it back on, meaning she was taking baths without it.
  8. At this point I don't even know what are you talking about
  9. Do we have many characters with purple eyes that people haven't talk about them? No we don't, that is why I find it impossible for a person that was talking about individual stretch marks to not address Valyrian features. Every single character with purple eyes had a description of shade not just colour, they are analyzed with details, but suddenly Tyrion met a woman with purple eyes and a kid with purple eyes, that is supposedly dead and he didn't have the tiniest thought about it. Pretty stupid writing if this is the case. And as I said he would be pretty unconvinced of their story, if Lemore and Aegon had a similarly like that. As for Barristan in the show was killed before it was his time, yes, but Danny is not even close to be in westeros yet and there is a huge chance Selmy is gonna die in the meantime. Plus, he is having thoughts about loyalty in general not only about Ashara. He was thinking about betraying all the oaths they are taking not only the one about having relationships. Yes, he is thinking Ashara often, bc Danny's eye colour reminds him of her, he himself had said this, which makes my previous point even more valid, Ashara's eyes were really purple and distinct and every story about her is mentioning them, there is no way for people to not comment on lemore's eyes if she is Ashara.
  10. I will, not continue this, bc you think we don't have not even one correct information about her, when the people we argue against this theory use the text, unlike you that trying to make everything in the story something else, to fit the theory. It's a theory, so everyone can believe whatever they want I guess. You stand by it, I don't it's ok. I will press on the eye colour though. In asoiaf the eyes are purple this is a fact, you are trying to make it something else, but it is a fact they are lilac, violet, lavender and other purple shades. So, when people are described with purple eyes they are purple. Irl purple eyes are not purple, so I don't know why you are comparing them in the first place. Real life "purple" eyes, are grey 99.99% of the time and bluish grey with a hint of red in the other 0.01%of the timethat makes them appear more purple, bc the red hue of the blood vessels make it looks that way and it's not even that noticable. They aren't purple, so comparing Liz Taylor's eyes with Ashara's or anyone's purple eyes in asoiaf, is not accurate. In this universe purple eyes are most of the time purple and sometimes look more blue or grey or even black, but still it's visible that they are purple, in our world purple eyes are never purple, bc even when people say they are, colour is closer to grey or blue and not purple. Ashara unlike Aegon doesn't have blue hair and I find unlikely that Tyrion didn't catch up on it, because he is watching her and it's in the daylight. If this is the case which I still think it's not, it's gonna be the most dumb thing in the story by far.
  11. These type of resurrections, Aeron, Patchface, even Davos since his situation is also a little bit blurry, worked kinda differently, that let's say Lady Stoneheart and Beric. We haven't seen someone like Mel or Thoros or in general a priest waking them up, it's like "the gods" helped or whatever power we have. All of them had natural deaths, but Euron seem to work on a sacrifice or in general magic stuff, so do we know if after this will be able to be resurrected again? Because I think the will not.
  12. I doubt Barristan will leave Essos, he is gonna be dead most likely before Danny reach Westeros and the others are already in Westeros. Ashara is described throughout the series as fair and pretty, Lemore is described handsome. Meaning different physique and features, probably more sharp and "manly", something like that doesn't change with age, it's a bone structure and body type. And the eyes is a huge hole, there isn't a way for Tyrion to not mention them, if they were that beautiful and purple. Martin isn't a writer that is hiding stuff like this, he is hiding them in plain sight. If he comes out and say ooooh I didn't say colour they are purple, but no one from the new people that is mentioning her pointed out, it would be both out of his writing character, but also plainly stupid. An also, big hole is that if she has purple eyes and no one is mentioning it, which is weird on each own, Tyrion would have been pretty unconvinced of their story. You have a woman in the right age, with purple eyes, that has given birth and a kid that everybody thought dead and the body was presented at court, yes in a terrible state but it was there, with again purple eyes and his hair dyed, he would definitely think that the kid is hers and thus not Aegon. Also if she had this common with Aegon, why not say from the start that it's her son and get it over with, why craft the whole story with Griff? It would be so much easier, this is my mum and this is my dad, end of story. There is no way she is Lemore it's full of plot holes.
  13. The purple eyes are not like irl, come on. They are pretty distinct purple. Even when they change shade it's not like the rl ones. They are purple and they look darker or bluer, but again pretty remarkable since it's very uncommon. If she has the eyes we would know, even without the colours we would have a description even to call them pretty or something. From how Lemore is described, she is a pretty woman, but with no crazy unique or remarkable characteristics. Tyrion the moment he sees something out of the ordinary it is pointed out, not only on Lemore in general, bc he himself doesn't have the most normal physique. Lemore is a beautiful woman, but not with something crazy district. And no, we have a description from Meeras story too and she is described beautiful and her eyes again, are purple. We would have a hint or something. Plus, Jon doesn't have a reason to not call her Ashara in his POVs he knew her. She is noble woman, but for sure not Ashara.
  14. I don't buy it, he didn't just saw her for 3'' and Ashara's eyes it was the thing that every single one mentioned, that and the fact that she was gorgeous. In asoiaf the purple eyes are not like irl, we are talking about purple purple and Ashara's were pretty striking. She doesn't have her hair dyed like the young Griff, so there is no way her eyes not looking purple. Her hair are not that dark either btw, but let's say it's from the age and sun, even though 40 is not that old. I will give the benefit of the doubt about her age too, bc she Looks older than wat Ashara would have look, but again stress etc etc. GRRM would have writing it, if the Lemore had the eyes, at least mentioned them that are beautiful or unusual, striking, something. It's not written like this to trick the reader, it's not his style and it would be stupid to start doing it now. Septa Lemore looks like she is a beautiful woman, but not Ashara level. No hunting purple eyes = No Ashara. As I said, that was not just ogling, that was a freaking inspection, the guy was talking about individual stretch marks, if her eyes were at least that beautiful like Ashara's were, let alone that shade of purple, bc in this world are not Liz Taylor purple, they are PURPLE different shades, but purple we would have known.
  15. First of all, you don't need to be offended, since I said that I call tinfoil many of my theories to, when they don't have a base. Not everyone agrees with my theories and it's ok, they are just theories, chill. If you search about it and indeed find something it would be pretty fun, since it's sounds interesting but so far I don't see anything that hints to that, it's on air. Second, yes my theory about the Masseys is obviously just a theory, but still I gave some pretty valid arguments, it's ok of you don't agree. To me, an ancient house from a costal area, with pretty light people, with pirate culture, with names like Maldon that are similar to Maladon and Galladon meaning taken from Arthurian legends like names from the Daynes and people from Tarth and even Hightowers, that are close to a place like Tarth, that we both agree sounds like people from Dawn were there, points to another house that aren't first men. What else do you want me to say. It's pretty self explanatory I see that many of the clues we have from the books, about other houses we speculate are from tgeotd, apply to house Massey too. It's ok if you don't buy it it's a theory. Third, the clues about the Dawn age and the houses are not that little as many people from the fandom suggest. They are just pretty scattered, after 2-3 readings everyone starts to catch up on stuff that never caught their eyes. Fourth, the names are an instigator. We see specific houses and cultures having specific names, like irl. The names of the Daynes, the Tarths, the Masseys as I said before, some names from Dawn age and age of heroes dragon slayers are inspired by Arthurian legends, the names of the early Hightowers are actually pretty similar to ironborn names, names from house Stark, Bolton and other first men are close to some English and Germanic and Andals seem to have a more all over the place names, but also 99% are English and Old English inspired, as you said Kevan is the asoiaf Kevin, and indeed we see it only on one Lannister, this is why I think it's not easy to compare it to Justin since we have more than one and all of the in the same House. The names along with their characteristics are the reason I believe that Lannisters are Proto-Andals like the world books suggest and not first men. It's a theory as I said maybe tinfoil, maybe not. It's not a bad word at least for me. Lastly about the eyes I think you didn't get what I said, bc English isn't my first language and I wrote it kinda messy. Unnatural coloured eyes, hint to magic and Masseys seems like they had a member. Roose again personally I believe he practice magic and he has some magical blood, the Starks don't have the same eyes as Roose not even in the slightest they have grey eyes we actually have a huge amount of people with grey eyes not just the Starks. White though? Not so many and what we have it's either magical or blind. Purple eyes seems to be the exception, they are on magical people, but it is hinting on one time of magic, dragon blood, unlike others that are not connected only with specific forms of magic. Greensheers and Mel both have red eyes it's just an indicator of magic. Again from what I have seen in the books this is my theory, maybe is of 100%, it's ok. I'm sorry, bc it seems like I kinda pissed you off, but I didn't mean to offend you, I just would like to see some stuff from the books, to say if I ride with the theory or not, bc so far it's an idea, but it doesn't have any base. I gave you mine you don't agree and it's ok, but I would like to have some stuff too before I say that I see it or not as a theory. Idk what else to say.
  16. Tyrion inspected her while naked and talked/thought even about her stretch marks, if she had hunting purple eyes, I think someone would have noticed.
  17. Not gonna lie, speculations whithout at all back up, even a little bit, it's kinda wishfull thinking. I can see why people make stories and theories,but these are tinfoil, at least when I have a theory that is on air and with no evidence, I say it is tinfoil. For something not to be tinfoil, it needs at least the tiniest amount of text evidence. It's one thing to be falf-baked and with little evidence and another to be fully on air. Nope it was about them being Andals from the start, I will search the qna. Even the world book throw it as a possible story for them to be Andals, so there is something there. Yup, most empires fictional or irl are like that. I said just the same one, bc Dawn was only one, of the many powerfull cultures we know about in Dawn age Essos. Fisher queens and after them we had Sarnori, the patrimony of hyrkoon was pretty big back then too and let's not forget that we had a huge sea culture in northern Sothoryos at some point, whoever was there they were powerfull, the cities are huge there. Thousand Islands were bigger and it seems something were pretty bad there, bc of magic, the Lorathi that built the mazes. Were all this the same empire? Maybe, maybe not. As i had said in another post I made at some point about Roose, the eyes that have unnatural colouring seem to point in a connection with magic. Purple, red, the almost glowing blue of the others', the weird deep mosh green etc etc. I believe these colourless eyes are not just there for the shake of it, they point somewhere and at least one Massey had them. Unlike the Boltons though, that had connections to the old gods and they still practice this religion with many first men customs, the Masseys were in a costal area and they were pirates with Arthurian names, the only other people we have seen this are other houses we have hints to be from Dawn. For sure it's not the same thing, but both of them hint to magic, I mean Mel has red eyes but greensheers had them to, so it's not a specific colour eye for every religion, the only colour like tha, it's the purple one, but it is heavily implyed, in the story from charachers that this might be man made and not natural.
  18. That. Lann was mentioned as an Andal I think by GRRM himself in a qna, I think I am not sure. In general I think the Andals came in more than one set or at least people and families on their ownthey were coming to westeros since before the coming of the Andals, we have many stories that involve Andals or Andal customs, but they are way older. Just the last wave was the biggest and had a more violent intergration. Same for the grey king, in genral ironborn have some common stuff in their cultures and many times similar symbolisms, so maybe ironborn and andals were inside the same empire when in essos and had some common ground. I haven't look into it at all, not gonna lie sounds pretty tinfoily, but I am gonna lie if I say I dont enjoy some tinfoil from time to time. I think though that there buried is the first king indeed, but I think the first king and Garth are the same person (I know many people don't like the theories by desputed lands, but to me at least, for this part of the story, he theory sounds like the most logical thing). Tarths are for sure, I agree. The thing is not their features though, only at least. I still believe that it is weird how much they are described in f&b and in the main story and the fact that Valyrians were ok to intermarry with them in the first place is a big clue imo. But, also, their whole history before Andals or Valyrians doesn't sound like first men at all. They had pirate kings, a member with the nickname Milk-eye and lastly, their names in general, their old names and the newer ones, are not first men names, Maldon for sure is not a first men's name and he was the founder and it is inspired again from arthurian stories like the names of Tarths and Daynes, Justin, Lucifer, Alarra these names are not first men, but also are not Very Valyrian so it's not like they were influenscd and they aren't that Andal either. We don't have other Justins or Maldons.
  19. The think is, we don't know when Stannis found out and told Jon. This could have been way before this talk, bc in this talk both look like they knew for quite sometime. I think it was just the first time Jon and Stannis themselves talked with the boy and this is why they were found and Jon was killed. As for the mother, we don't know anything. Big chance he was living for a little bit with Gendry, while he was an apprentice. By giving him to tobho, they make sure his and his mother don't move around, leave etc etc. The thing is they lost the mom in the meantime.
  20. But it seems like Jon knew, the questions were really specific. And Jon knew about the incest going on in the red keep, big chance he was planning a back up plan, along with Stannis. The boy, not a boy. They asked for him from the start, they didn't looked at all the boys and saw Genrdy. They went there to find him and it seems they cared about his well-being. They didn't have questions about his identity and they didn't go in blind, they knew where to search and they didn't asked him how he came to work for Tobho. They were looking for his mother, obviously since an extra person to back up their claims is usefull. The mother and the people on the place she was working (ale house/brothel who knows) could confirm that indeed had sex with Robert and also Robert remembers many of the women he slept with and he could say too, if he indeed slept with her.
  21. My bad forgot about it, still not the way Varys would do something like this. He wore pretty flashy clothes and went with a lot of money to do an undercover job? I don't buy it. Why not dreesed like a common wealthy person, merchant or something and offer a bigger amount of money (since we know that Tobho didn't need an extra person) for the smith to keep Genrdy and end it there? That is way more stealthy, something we know Varys is. There is no freaking way he would wear his purple and silver robes to do a job like this, it's way to flashy and Varys is many stuff, but not stupid. And also, Genrdy could be a problem to his plan with Aegon. He said that he had the baby from the start, why secure the first male son of Robert, bc it seems they wanted to have him secure and they knew that he was indeed Robert's first son. Baratheons had supporters and amd Targaryens were not that loved, if the word of Gendry was spread and on the other side was Aegon, big chance lords and smallfolk would side with Genrdy over Aegon, even though a bastard.
  22. Varys is an effeminate eunuch there is no way he can grow such a beard (Edit: @Mourning Star corrected me, he can put on a beard, still as I said in a another comment, not a chance it was Varys for many reasons). Yes, he can go undercover with different clothes and smells as we have seen, but he doesn't change his face. Also I doubt Varys would have gone dressed as a Lord, he would have been simpler. Now, we saw Jon and Stannis asking for Gendry from the start, they didn't ask to see all the boys and search for Genry or talk to Genrdy, bc of his looks. They knew he was there and also the questions are not to see if indeed the boy is a bastard and who brought him there, they knew who he is and they are asking for his well-being, I doubt Tobho woudn't say if Stannis and Jon asked the stuff that Ned did. Instead they were the for the boy and they were in search for his mom. They knew about him, they probably were searching brothels for him mother. I think they were looking for her to see if Robert remembered her and if indeed had sex with Robert and it was not just a blue-eyes black haired kid, so they can have some short of evidence if they needed to present him at court.
  23. He was with Jon in KIng's Landing, pretty sure Gold Cloaks and people arround would have seen him and they could describe him if necessary, he was a lord along with the hand at Red Keep. Robert was a new king at this point and Gendry was his first known son. Jon had seen Joffrey and probably had the idea that he wasn't Robert's son in the back of his mind. They already had seen other bastard of him, all of them with Baratheon features, Genry is one more clue on the situation and he was also the oldest male (Also I think Genry is a kid that Robert might like, stubborn strong tall, like him) Keeping him would be a great backup plan, but also pretty dangerous considering Tywin and Cersei wouldn't be that happy about it, I think at this point Edric had been born too, another male bastard would be a huge problem. Jon and Stannis both knew about Gendry, but giving him themselves would be risky, a person that Jon trust though it would be great. About the extra money, imagine bringing a kid and paying a lot for him, meaning you are rich as shit and leaving after. It would be the talk of the town on who is this kid and why someone paid that much for him.
  24. I am guessing you're gonna be dissapointed. At this point it's 99.9% a fact.
  • Create New...