Steelegrave

So I went with 4. Mostly because they got the Blackfish right and Ian McShane. Also no Dany and Tyrion. That's a plus. The Hound - They spent 2/3 of a precious hour, of which there are few left, bringing back a minor player in the overall story. They wasted a talent like Ian McShane and they further tarnished Ned's character by having the Brotherhood slaughter innocent people for a few scraps of food. The North- So Jon Snow comes back from dead and has only changed for the worse. He's just more emo and ineffectual. At this point if he becomes the prince who was promised or Azor Ahai its going to be a complete leap in logic. And apparently The North doesn't Remember. They have completely destroyed this great storyline from the novels. Slaver's Bay - Nonsense, just gratuitous sex. Arya - Another great storyline they have butchered. Arya has learned apparently nothing while training, flashing money around in broad daylight, letting anybody get within 3 feet of her. And the master assassin the Waif shows her true face on a crowded bridge and stabs Arya in the gut and not a vital area. These guys don't know what the hell they are doing. My 10 year old could write a better adaptation.

I have never given it a 1 but I can see how someone could and still watch. When I judge this show I judge based on what it was and what it could be. I don't judge it against other shows, that would be silly. The production values, sets, costumes etc are too good to judge against most TV but if you judge based on previous HBO shows or some of the stuff AMC is doin, that's a similar playing field. The first 3 seasons for the most part are the best TV ever. But as the writers of X-men Origins: Wolverine and Troy gain further control of the narrative it becomes more like Wolverine and less like Deadwood. If you judged this episode solely against 1st season Baelor you could easily give it a 1, Baelor would be a 10. That's kind of how I rate it but not against 1 single episode, that's not rational. But giving each episode with all the lack of logic and shitty dialog a 10 isn't rational either. This used to be my favorite show now its not even in my top 5. As to why I thoroughly dislike most of what this show has become and still watch, there are many factors. Its my single favorite story of all time. I love A Song of Ice and Fire, so not watching really isn't an option. Also I got so many friends, family and co-workers into the show in the 1st couple seasons, and being a semi-expert on the story they all come to me with questions after. I have to have an idea of what happened. Finally, there is something called Hope-Watching. I have sincere hope that maybe they'll recapture some of what made this show great. Maybe someday they'll get it right. But they get further and further away from that each episode.

A whole pile of people tried to be ahead but the Taylor Swift fans and 10 voters, through popularity contests chose them. Regardless of numerical values or discrete candidates, the popular opinion is almost always wrong. And statistics are generally not applicable to value judgements.

Which statistical laws exactly? A standard bell curve should have near equal values at the extreme ends with higher measures in the moderate values. If one extreme end is substantially higher than the other, I would theorize that those on that disjointed extreme are the trolls.

There is a distinction between occasionally and always.

Right back attcha!

Okay lets go another direction. In my country the popular opinion is the best candidates for leader of the once-free-world are Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. One is a narcissistic criminal and the other is a narcissistic criminal According to you those that disagree with popular opinion are trolls.

You sir are a man of distinction and grace. Bravo.

Yes you're right. And Taylor Swift is a musical genius.

You started this with the Critical Thinking insult don't play the victim now.

Can you stop comparing this great work of literature to Harry Potter please?

You've gone off the point of the original topic. I responded to somebody saying that because we think the writing is bad in the show and its going to hit all the major plot points when the books are finished are we going to say George is a bad writer. I said George is going to get to those points with logic and reason not the nonsense that the show is selling. We all have analyzed and contemplated this story for 20 years. We have a pretty good idea where its going anyway. How we get there is not going to be spoiled by this drivel.

Here come the insults. Critical thinking also implies being able to have a discussion without ad hominem attacks. George gave them a guide map to the major events. How you get there is just as important as how they happen. If you take a completely different path to the end, it is very likely that the story is nonsensical. Which this has become.

I don't think you take any comment as a generalization. There are always things to appreciate in GoT. The production value is top notch, costumes, filmography. That is why so many of us are so frustrated with the moronic writing.

I really believe that undeserved Emmy gave Tweedle D&D the ego to say they don't have to follow the source material at all. I also feel that they go out of their way to insult fans of the books that take issue with their nonsensical changes. 'Fuck Aggo' in Ep 4 I know was a direct insult to us. Also I think the wasteful killing of the direwolves is a childish stab at the fans also used as shock value to incite the ignorant masses. I don't believe George is going to kill them indiscriminately like that if he kills them at all

Really? George wrote Sansa being married and raped by Ramsey? George wrote Jon being stabbed because he let the wildlings in? George did that shit to Dorne? I could go on for fucking days. You're wrong. Those fuckups have repercussions through the series that are not going to happen in the books.

I wasn't emotional because they wasted a half an episode and a direwolf on what amounts to an origin story for a b-tier character. I was insulted. The show has become completely illogical at this point. I gave it an 8 because this episode made me realize that these morons aren't spoiling the books for me. The books that I love will never jump to these completely illogical conclusions and erratic character actions and motivations. The whole Sansa/Littlefinger scene was nonsense because the arc started with nonsense. That Littlefinger holds the key to north and simply hands it over to the north's biggest asshats came full circle when Sansa said "either you knew what kind of monster he was or you're stupid" was them writing that they have no idea how they wrote that nonsense in the 1st place. The show Littlefinger doesn't know why he did it cause he IS fuckin stupid. Then Sansa being offered an army, her cousins army, to take back Winterfell and turning it down because she's angry at Littlefinger was ridiculous. The Sansa that has learned from Cersei and Littlefinger would've taken that army and fucked over Littlefinger in the end. I'm happy today because I know I have great books to read in the future that will look nothing like this drivel. As for why we continue to watch. I read an article about it. It's not hate-watching it's hope-watching. We watch because we hope one day the light will come on they will finally get it right. But we are continually disappointed.

Solid 6. That's my highest rating since season 3. The Starks getting back together is something I have always wanted to see, they could've done a better job with that reunion but it was good enough. Littlefinger rollin in in the hooked up coach lookin like a pimp took it from 5 to 5.5. The way he handled Royce was pretty well done. A bit too transparent for Lord Baelish but its probably the best we can hope for from these writers. Subtley completely escapes them. Jamie layin the smack down on the small council gave it another half point. I'm over the Ramsey and Tyrion nonsense. Wasting a character like Osha just to show us once again how badass Ramsey Sue is was painful to watch. Saint Tyrion is getting boring and nonsensical, and now that Dany has 100k screaming Bloodriders, his entire season has no point. Jorah and Darrio was just dumb, seemed alot like Jamie and Bronn in Dorne to me. It would've got a 8 if they would've flown the dragons in over the burning hut. I'd have given a 10 if it was Arya reuniting with Jon but they fucked the possibility of that up a long time ago.

No I don't think the TOJ has all the heart and soul of the books. I don't think that scene was poorly done. As I already said that was one of the few bright parts in the last 2 years of the show. I don't mind that Arthur Dayne wielded 2 swords or wore Targaryen symbols. Those are film devices to define characters that can't be done the way a book can do it. Its some very basic concepts of the characters and the story they don't get. I don't think that my interpretation is the only valid view. But some things are so fundamental they aren't open to interpretation. And more often than not their interpretation is nonsensical. Its not just different.

I don't mind different. I really don't want a great read to be completely spoiled by it's adaptation. What I mind is being unfaithful to the characters I love, the story I love, the entire concept. They don't fucking understand the story. And it kills me. So I need to vent and this is a good place to do so.

That's the whole point. It's not that the books are The Bible. They can be adapted and changed but Tweedle D&D don't even get it. They don't get the themes. They don't get the concepts. They don't get the heart and the soul of the story. And it is infuriating.

Really? Just like Littlefinger, one of the greatest schemers in the realm, set them up by dropping off Sansa? The Umbers, not at all great schemers, are out playing Littlefinger, huh.

Or maybe we just want to commiserate with others of like mind on the destruction of something we once loved. Why do you take personal offense at our opinions? What harm do they do you? Does it have flaws? Huge gaping flaws that Ramsey's dogs fall into.

I gave it a 3 purely by judging it against the previous episodes of the show. If I judge it against the books there is no rating system that satisfies. I only continue to watch this drivel because I got so many people into it, my coworkers, friends even my wife and now they all want to talk to me about it. It gets a 3 because they moved Arya's story forward, even though it's sloppy as shit. That's one of the best arcs in the books and these guys have butchered it. Also because we got a glimpse at the TOJ. I actually think they handled the reveal the right way. Jon is in limbo right now. Giving the viewer R+L=J would have been messy and poorly timed. That needs to come at a time when Jon does some heroic shit but of course the morons that run this crap will handle it alot like they did his resurrection, ham-fisted and forced I truly hope the Umber's have an ulterior motive behind giving up Rickon, but I don't give Tweetle D&D any credit for having that kind of subtlety or logic. I'm sure it's just another Northerner giving over their liege lord to the biggest assclowns in the north.

All they know is Sansa is married to Tyrion LANNISTER and Littlefinger is an ally of the LANNISTERS. Arya doesn't need protection anymore. Arya needs revenge. She was trained to fight by Ned Stark, Jon Snow, Syrio Forel, Jaqen H'ghar, Berric Dondarrion and Sandor Clegane. Arya is ready to go on her own. I gave this episode a 7. If I were just judging it as TV show compared to other TV shows it would've been hard for me not to give it a 9 or 10. It was fantastic televisIon. But as an enthusiastic advocate of the books it probably earned a 4 or 5. 1) "Where do whores go" is one of the great lines from these books. No reason not to put the Tysha stuff in. 2) Tyrion and Jamie parting on good terms changes Tyrion's motivation as a character and makes killing Tywin silly and unnecessary. 3) No "she's been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moonboy for all I know" and Jamie and Cersei are closer than they ever were. That is a fundamental shift in the dynamic of the entire story. 4) As many have stated, making Tyrion killing Shae an act of self defense and crying as she died is cowardly writing to protect a popular character. And I think its wrong. The act of cold-blooded murder gave Tyrion more depth as a character. This is a great example of "a butterfly flaps its wings and a hurricane" theory. Each of these little changes is going to have rippling effects on the story. What is Tyrion's motivation going to be? How is Brienne's story going to evolve knowing that Arya is alive? How will Cersei end up without all of the sexual misconduct allegations? And what will be her relationship with Jamie? The good thing I guess is we will have a completely different story than what we have read in the books. As a side note I loved Jojen's death. First he is stabbed repeatedly by the wight, then his sister slits his throat, then he is fireballed. Epic death!