2 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

Visenya killed all the assassins Dorne sent to kill her, she trained Maegor. 

There is not comparison, Aegon and Visenya are better than Baelor

I'd have to say that from a purely brawn point of view, you are probably correct that Aegon and Visenya were better "fighters" than Baelor. But being a scrappy or effective fighter isn't necessarily the same thing as being a great knight, hero, ect overall. Also, we have to take into account the fact that Aegon was king during a much more turbulent era than his son on great-grandson Daeron the Good (even though his sons had to kill the Blackfyres or subdue them, at least all of the great houses were behind the Red Dragons). Aegon and Visenya had to be on their guard 24/7 because most of the high lords hated them, well maybe except the Starks, Tyrells, and Greyjoys. All of the older and stronger houses of Andal blood like the Lannisters, the Arryns, ect saw them as ebomionations born of incest. You could include the Hightowers and Martells in there too! Baelor himself was half-Martell so by his time period, most people didn't really want to murder Daeron the Good. Baelor Breakspeare stood a much better chance of making it across the whole of the 7 kingdoms in one piece than his ancestor Aegon. 

On 8/18/2023 at 2:48 AM, Hippocras said:

 

Second, it would mean that a certain degree of blood tie existed that might have impacted the choice several families made to fight for the Blacks in the Dance.

Third, it would mean that from Rhaenyra onward, the main branch of House Targaryen had a drop of Stark blood, and this period coincides with the decline of dragonpower in Westeros. We would therefore be able to consider if that drop of Stark blood had a "chilling" effect somehow.

This connection through a Stark-Arryn bloodline might explain why Ned said to Robert once: "You had the better claim." Robert may have descended directly from Aegon V, but Ned and Jon Arryn had some kind of claims! 

The child would have likely been whisked away to Highgarden...like another baby that was apparently whisked away during another war . Seriously though, that baby would have been defended with Olenna's own life. A life-saving great-grandma for sure! 

1. Daemon Blackfyre (of course!) 

2. Aemon the Dragonknight 

3. Maegor 

4. Baelor Breakspeare (one of the best Targ fighters in my humble opinion) 

5. Aegon I 

6. Jaeherys I (after reading Fire and Blood. I did not know how good a warrior he was until then.) 

7. Rhaegar

8. Aegor Rivers (Have to include the Bittersteel)

9. Visenya

10. Daemon Targaryen (it starts and ends with a Daemon!) 

On 8/20/2023 at 4:51 AM, Hippocras said:

I can't believe how hard it is to get people here to speculate on bloodlines!

I will reiterate why I think we should discuss such things: This is a series for which many or even all key events are rooted in blood magic, and blood magic works via blood ties. We have extensive and yet very incomplete family trees. A lot of the holes in those trees have the feel of being either something deliberately concealed, or something that still needs to be worked out by the author and so he is not ready to fill them in yet. 

This means that who is related to who, an ancestor of who, etc. is important.

Thank you for speaking to the bloodline thing! The magic aspect connected with family trees is pivotal to our understanding of the story! i.e. Sweetrobin's family tree, Bran and the Stark family tree (already displayed in AWOIAF), the Targaryens and Blackfyre trees, ect

We still don't even know who Maekar's two daughters married!!! Some believe that it was a Tarth lord. But how can we be sure!? I mean if that is the case, then technically Brienne would be more of a potential dragon rider than any of the Martells! I have to admit that the biggest disappointments for me when I first purchased the world of ice and fire, was that it was missing the Arryn, Baratheon, and Tully family trees! Those three families along with the Starks and Lannisters, were without doubt the most important when the series began. Also, we are never told what happened to Vaella (the simple dragon and daughter of Daeron the Drunken) as well as her cousin Maegor, son of Brightflame. I personally believe that all of this is on purpose. 

On 8/25/2023 at 10:52 PM, Roswell said:

Is it Possible That Lyanna Committed Suicide?

It's not only possible but very likely.  She preferred death over marrying Robert Baratheon.  Eddard kept this truth from Robert to protect his feelings.  Rhaegar and Arthur found a Lyanna who was already in the early stages of pregnancy.  Lyanna was running to protect her baby.  Like Gilly would do years later.  The father, or the circumstances of the conception, one of the two, was not good for Rickard Stark.  So the father was either Brandon or a wildling like Mance.  The north would not accept and it will ruin his plans to bind his family to the Baratheons. 

I like how you think sir! Well regarding this series of books anyway. I personally cannot ever understand why there is such a "push" for R plus L equallying J. It is way too romantic and too fan fiction-like for George RR Martin's work. Even Daemon Blackfyre did not rebel right away when the first Princess Danaerys was married off to the Martell lord at the time! You know what that means!? Daemon was not likely in love with Danaerys (in my opinion). You might say, in argument to my point, oh what about Jaime's tragic love for Cersei, or Baelish's for Catelyn, or Ned's for Ashara? Well, here's the thing...in all of those cases the love story arc did not end "well." 

Also, on another note, I believe that "real" love in the story of ASOIAF is extremely rare. We see it with Brienne and Jaime the most concretely. It's love according to the movements of fate or destiny, along with a lot of commonalities! It is NOT to be found with Jaime and Cersei, because sex and lust does not equal LOVE. It is not to be found with Baelish and Catelyn likely either, because true love is reciprocal. It's not totally one-sided. The whole Daemon Blackfyre for Daenerys thing/trope has been used time and again in other stories. The Prince and his Damsel. Not a GRRM thing at all. 

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Content-wise the Blackfyre Rebellion is another pointless succession/civil war. We don't really need that, just as we don't need a Robert's Rebellion show.

However, if Dunk & Egg were a success there is chance that it might make sense to do that eventually. Not because the plot is that great, but because people might really want to see more of Baelor Breakspear, Maekar, Bloodraven, Arlan of Pennytree, a younger Eustace Osgrey, etc.

This could be a way to sort of continue this project without directly continuing the Dunk & Egg stories into unchartered territory.

The thing about the Blackfyre Rebellion that distinguishes it from other wars, was that it was a Targaryen civil war "without dragons." And the meaning behind the rebellion is still shrouded in mystery, even with TWOIAF. Was it started for love? Politics? Personal jealousy and hatred? I don't know, maybe I like the makings of the Blackfyre Rebellion because unconsciously I associated it with the English Wars of the Roses. I am admittedly a history buff, and 15th-16th century English/Scottish history has long interested me. I see the Blackfyres as being similar to the Beauforts, I see the mainline of the Targaryens under Daeron II as being similar to the House of York. Breakspeare being the embodiment of Edward IV, but more than likely Edward the Black Prince of Wales. But then again Robert Baratheon has been compared to King Edward IV of England multiple times, so maybe I'm spinning some wheels here. I just think that the Blackfyre rebellion has a great cast of characters that Robert's Rebellion did not have. Not much is that fascinating about a frail and paranoid Targaryen king like Aerys II to be honest. But Daeron II's family, they were like rockstars in their hayday. Well...at least Baelor, Aerys, and Maekar. (One strong, one smart, and one in between.) 

On 1/21/2021 at 3:55 PM, Lord Varys said:

And if that's done right then this could be the springboard for a Blackfyre Rebellion series, because to work Dunk & Egg has to establish the setting right, and give us detailed information on the era and the background of the people who show up - especially for Bloodraven and the second Daemon Blackfyre.

Really not interested in a Robert's Rebellion TV show, though.

That's too close to ASoIaF and will just trigger too many bad GoT memories.

This indicates that HBO is really pushing for George's stuff to become a working franchise ... especially since George opposed the idea of a Robert's Rebellion show or Dunk & Egg at a time before he has finished their story.

I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing ... if you remember what GoT became.

In my humble opinion...Blackfyre Rebellion would be BADASS. Such good material to work with, especially when you consider that the lines of each character in that setting are open for debate, and not already pre-scripted by GRRM. If the potential series attracts great writers, then it could be pretty darn solid. Of course Baelor Breakspeare will come out smelling of roses in the end, but the "in-between stuff" will be a surprise.