Pain killer Jane

You know I don't remember if he was pointing in any direction since I haven't read the Baum books in a long time. Yes the crucified children on the road to Meereen are scarecrows in the aspect of warning and terrifying the slaves and therefore talismans against Dany, ones that are made from the slaughter of innocents. The pointing, if the scarecrow was pointing in a specific direction, would be a physical allusion. It also could be the use of the weathervane in the shape of a rooster, which was said to be by Pope Gregory to be a symbol of St. Pete (the guy that denied Chirst three times before the rooster crowed. I love the scoring a goal in football, especially considering how Ned's (if we parallel Ned and Torrhen) head ended up on a spike like a warrior's head on a tzompantli. Thank you! I will mention it to him. Tormund as well if we accept that Tor is tower and mund is actually mound as well as protector. I also need to mention that in the article I sent you @ravenous reader, in Scotland scarecrows are called bodach-rocais or 'old man of the rooks' and a rook is a tower and we have several towers known to be rookeries with a lot of crows. And given, that I saw that GRRM was a step below a chess master, this is not a coincidence. So in light of this, I think Torrhen, Tormund Giantsbane or his other alias Tormund Thunderfist might be the link between the towers on fire symbolism and scarecrows on fire and sacred caves and hollow hills and Calvary Hill. By the way, I think it might be significant that the word rook is derived from the Persian word meaning chariot.

I figured someone would have looked at Torrhen. Did you guys also discuss the English and Welsh origins of 'Tor' as a tower or a craggy outcrop on a hill, up thread?

So here is another study of something that is probably in the pages of this thread. King Torrhen Stark Obvious one would be 'torn' or 'ripped' the second would Tauren - maybe of you will recognize this from World of Warcraft, as the race of cow people from the Horde side of the game. (For the Horde ) Basically should be viewed as bull like as Taurus is near. Now let's break the name Torrhen apart to "Torr" and 'Hen' torr is a unit of pressure. Hen is the female version of the word haneni which means 'bird who sings for sunrise'. So we have a man whose nickname is 'the King Who Knelt" who is probably viewed as a chicken, was torn between his decisions, was probably under a lot of pressure and then bent the knee for another sunrise. And was probably a sacrificial bull (this last one is up for debate)

The scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz getting a brain if he were a crucified person that stole fire/knowledge from the gods.

I agree that line is extremely significant. If we take the three male Starks still alive they could be the three gargoyles in the Cressen scene. Jon the wyvern (not a dragon but still a kin of dragons), Bran would be Cressen, Rickon like Ravenous Reader pointed out could be the hellhound as hellhounds irl are just monstrous black dogs and Shaggy is a monstrous black wolf that is a pet. @ravenous reader and I have been corresponding about scarecrows and their symbolism. And Ravenous pointed out this scene and asked who the wyvern and the hellhound might represent if a scarecrow is also a gargoyle.

Hey seams I don't know if anyone pointed this out but Sam being a brother of the Night's Watch, he is also a scarecrow in the sense that he is protecting the crop. i.e. the realms of men. The action of being craven is the action of being scared but like how you pointed out with Bran's quote being scared is not the issue the real issue is how we face it which what Sam's journey is about. So the multi-layer meaning of Sam is that he is a scared crow (a brother of the Night's Watch) but is tasked with protecting it like a scarecrow. A hint to this is Maester Cressen standing in between the two gargoyles the wyvern and hellhound but is symbolically acting like a gargoyle another symbol of protection against something but was originally the thing it is currently thing from. Added bonus is that Cressen is a maester which is what Sam is currently studying.

I just realized I made another one of those gaffs. Immortality vs. immorality but it makes sense because achieving immortality is being proven to originate from a great amount of immorality........

There is the existence of the Ash River in Asshai that has blind fish which only shadowbinders eat as I speculate could be a ritual in order to increase their power. And nice speculation that a red priests sight is an ash eye. Mel keeps saying that Rh'llor will be the one that will deliver them from the evil Great Other but damn are they not monstrous in everything about them. An ash eye makes me think of Timmett son of Timmett, who plucked out his eye and throw it into the fire. And ash itself is the burned remnants of something and shadows can be remnants of living people and shadow binding is achieved through the sexual ritual combination of blood and fire magic and the shadow baby Mel birthed was a shadow of a living person. @LmL does speculate that while the sunset kingdoms contain the heart of winter, Asshai by the shadow could have contained the Heart of Summer and then transformed by the meteor and the BSE using dark magic. He explains it way better than I ever could. I think it is in the Asshai video he did with History of Westeros or in the Great Empire of the Dawn vid. I think in one of the same two videos someone in the fandom pointed out that the current city of Asshai couldn't have been built after a long night scenario happening because of their complete dependence on foreign trade for basic living.

Interesting. 'The Neck is the key to the kingdom.' (ACOK-Theon II) You know in the light of the the Sea of Reeds being a stormsend, coral reefs function in a similar fashion and coral is tied to the nennymoans/anemones and also lime used in hair was made of burnt coral.

Oh to add on to my rabbit hole of Asshai up thread, it could be a spelling of Assiah, "the World of Action", one of the four spiritual worlds of the Kabalah and it is "the seat of the dark and impure powers". Sounds like Asshai.

Your welcome. You give me a lot to think about as well. Snake handling tradition in Pentecostal churches in the Appalachias. That makes sense as the Unsullied are castrated and their organs are sacrificed to the Lady of Spears. Then to receive a spike helm (penis hat) they take a silver mark and buy a newborn slave child, kill it in front of its mother and then pay the master for the loss. The act of killing a newborn (symbol of life) and then receiving a symbol of power is in line with Caster, Sistermen and other places that sacrifice for power. Yes I forgot about that. Absolutely. This also supports the theory that Garlen (a ring of flowers) was the one that put the poison in Joffery's cup. And you know this wreath symbolizing death and spring always leads me back to "Ring Around the Rosie" whose actual name is "Ring a Ring O' Roses" and the persistent legend that the song is about The Plague. In exchange for Dany's living sacrifices, including that of her unborn son, after which she apparently forsook further fertility (much like Varys), Dany received her 'children' the dragons who seem to have inspired some kind of magical upswing in Essos. Interestingly, there is a profusion of fertility as well as eating, including cannibalistic, imagery in this passage associated with the explosion of magic, particularly greenseeing abilities ('eater of eyes can see again'). Tying into the theme of sacrifice for spiritual power and immortality, I wonder if the 'Garden of Gehane' alludes to the biblical 'Garden of Gethsemane' where Christ famously prayed, and was tempted, the night before the crucifixion (he's also described as the sacrificial Lamb of God...'lamb prey' becomes 'lamp ray' the risen Light of God). The Garden of Gethsemane is also associated with the 'Last Supper' in which Jesus demonstrated the meaning of Communion for the first time, and with Jesus's betrayal at the hands of his own 'brothers.' There was a thread where the OP grouped together all the legends and stories about the Nightfort. And I posted that paragraph as parallels to the stories and their association with dark magic. Blind Sybassion the Eater of Eyes seeing again reminds me of Symeon Star-eyes putting sapphires in his eyes and then visiting the Nightfort and watching hell hounds fight. And I agree with the eater of eyes seeing again and it being analogous to greenseeing because we have Bloodraven who is half-blind but has a thousand and one eyes to see with. And Dany's dragons being identified here as the source for the proliferation of these dark magics speaks to her naming herself the Mother of Monster. (Echidna; which is interesting that Dany is possibly destined to marry Euron "The First Storm and the Last" - very Alpha/Omega wording there- and Echidna was married to Typhon, whose name has been confused as the origin for typhoon.) I love that the tortoises are phantoms (shadows) carrying messages. Control of messages especially in an age where communication was limited is having extraordinary power. Which is why I can understand Lady Dustin's hatred for the measters. They have vital control of the information system and a massive amount of power stored in those books at the citadel. Which is why it doesn't surprise me that the maesters are shady. However, to have symbols of immorality being shadows of themselves carrying knowledge is disturbing. And here again power (message as knowledge) being carried by inverted symbols of immortality. While not a direct parallel this reminds me of the The Thing in the Night as does Urrathon Night-Walker. Urrathon Night-Walker and the glass candles are also akin to Blind Sybassion and Symeon Star-eyes because glass candles when burning allow people to see without physically seeing. And the only other person with the name Urrathon is Urrathon IV Goodbrother nicknamed Bad Brother (this leads me to the passage talking about the sacrifice of Gilly's son to the Others and the others being described as his brothers and Urrathon was nicknamed Bad Brother because he put to death all of the sons-heirs- of the previous king. And is quite interesting when you pair it with Psalm 69:8 "I am become a stranger unto my brethren, And an alien unto my mother's children". Perhaps Gilly's son will be considered a bad brother by his brothers? Which also reminds me of Jon's constant fear of being viewed as a bad brother both as a brother of Nights Watch and Rob. That was one of the first things Tyrion challenges Jon about and it was the fear of Catlyn). Edit: The psalm quote specifically identifies the mother's children as brothers but Gilly's son is brother to the Others through their father and as is Jon. And Urrathon Night-Walker and his burning glass candles vaguely touches on Eldric Shadowchaser and LB because remember Davos (probably named for Davos the Dragonslayer) used the hearth fire in the Hall of the Painted Table to chase away the shadows. Aside from Night-walker being a euphemism for whores, I can speculate that the activity of night-walking would require some form of light. Which when you think that Davos calls the Crone's lantern constellation an old friend and Urrathon Night Walker's glass candles are burning seems to relate to each other. (this is speculation) The Rats chewing off their own tails is reminiscent of the Rat cook and the cannibalism so prevalent in that story and then it is also reminiscent of House Toland and their ouroboros sigil, not to mention that a scion of that house is having dreams of warring dragons specifically interpreted as Dany and Aegon VI warring against each other. The ghost grass is extremely terrifying if we believe the Dothraki, that ghost grass will choke the life out of the world. Which is interesting that ghost grass is appearing in a garden that is a symbol of life. I love the identification of Gethsemane as the possible source of the Garden of Gehane but I always took it as Gehenna where the kings of Judah would sacrifice children and it being the equivalent to hell. This is purely on name basis but the sacrificing of children/fertility is often paired with cannibalism. So a garden having the name of a place where the sacrifice children took place is very telling. Olive Oil is thought to be the oil that lit the menorah for eight days. And since we have an abundance of Judeo-Christian allusion in the novels this could be relevant. And Hanukkah is a winter holiday. Athena was given the patronage of Athens because she gave an Olive tree to them and it was decided on by a contest between her and Poseidon (the lord of seas and earthquakes). And remember that greenseeing is closely allied with the weirwoods and the BSE was said to have taken a Tiger woman (the fandom has speculated that this is a child of the forest) as a wife. So we could interpret this as a woman giving a tree to him and thus the GEoTD. Which could lend credence to the theory that the shade of the evening trees are corrupted weirwoods. And goes back to the Tree of knowledge of good and evil symbolism we keep seeing. I know Balon was talking about the Northern Kingdom but I can't help but see the other meanings to this. Everyone has long speculated that Howland knows about Jon's parentage. Lady Stoneheart is rumored to be there. Meage Mormont is also rumored to be there with Rob's will. And a southern invasion is crippled at the neck (pun intended there) but a Northern invasion as well (specifically the Others march but Rob's war was crippled at the neck because the Twins are close to the Neck and the castle sits at a crucial choke point as well).

So I don't want to bog down people with religious stuff but I was doing some research and I came across Stormsend. The tradition name for the Red Sea (that thing that Moses parted) is Yam Suph. The word Suph itself is Reed and therefore is translated as Sea of Reeds (I will leave that there). There is an interpretation that cites that Suph is related to Suphah (Storm) and Soph (end) and its usage to identify the body of water that Moses parted denotes the end of persecution by Egyptians and thus a storm's end. Btw the Sea of Reeds could be akin to the Egyptian Sekhet-Aaru or the heavenly reed fields where Osiris rules. And I just wanna point out that House Reed is located in the North, the Underworld.

It is also a play on another theme; Lamp ray. Specifically the Crone's Lantern shining in the darkness and the constellation of four stars that enclose a golden haze. That is a Davos quote from aSoS. I especially love that scene because he looks out of the northern window and sees a half moon, the Galley sailing West, the Crone's lantern enclosing a yellow haze and the Ice Dragon's eye pointing North. And hell if I know what all of that means especially when Dunk calls the same group of constellations old friends like Davos. Edit: and while Lamp ray is not indicative in and of itself, lamprey are called eels and you can equate them as water snakes and thus leviathans which @LmL explained in his newest essay and finally as drowned dragons. Which is the forging of Lightbringer. So a lamp ray in the darkness is lightbringer. Which has slightly conflicted symbolism, that AA/PTWP is supposed to be the avatar of Rh'llor the God of Light and Shadow but the light from the nightfires helped to obscure Mel and Davos when she went to birth the shadow baby but Davos in the same scene above uses the hearth fire to chase the shadows back to their corners. In Asian mythology, the rabbit in the moon pounds the elixir of immortality for the moon goddess. In other versions, it pounds rice cakes. And rabbits while being symbols of fertility and thus them being equated with immortality fits as procreation is nature's form of immortality. And it fits in the story as well. Tyrion III, aCoK Bran II, aCoK In both of these, rabbits are equated with procreation. The first one more than the second. Lances are just as swords often equated to the penis. So the Wild Hares tying the dead rabbits to their lances, is a little on the nose for death and life. And can we stop and say something about their names; the Wild Hares. First off the group thinks of themselves as young wolves thus probably mimicking the Winter Wolves. Secondly they are named Hares not Rabbits. Hare = hair. Them tying skins on their lances also mimics the Unsullied of Qohor (a city with a horned animal as its patron god) tying hair on their spears. Plus they sing 'songs of chivalry', those lovely summer knights that Catlyn spoke about. Edit: can I also point out that Benfred is drowned by Aeron. Also there is a scene in Jon III, aCoK where Ghost eats a rabbit and he meets Gilly, who right off the bat is identified as being pregnant. Gilly tells him that she is going to breed the rabbits because the sheep are gone. And we know where the sheep went. After this scene, Jon identifies Gilly as the Rabbit Keeper. A pregnant woman being a keeper of rabbits.... But all of this is corrupted in a sense. Pregnant women eating rabbits; dead rabbits hanging from lances, a crossbow worth a thousand rabbits (it is the sentence right after the above that Gilly says this); Arya listening to Chiswyck telling the story of Ser Gregor raping the daughter of the Inn keeper saying that she was 'wiggling like a rabbit'; Arya's rabbits on a spit being turned by boys and then basted with honey by pot girls and then witnessing Biter eating one of those rabbits (I think its interesting that Biter is seen as an aquatic-hybrid-fishy- and is so graphically eating a rabbit glazed with honey, Arya IX, aCoK); Pyp's yelling 'the turtle was stuffed with rabbits' (turtles also being symbols of immortality); Victarion describing Maron Volmark as the King of Rabbits because Euron gave him Greenshield (and after all is has a mantra that Euron's gifts are poison; Dany calling her tokar her 'floppy ears' because of a comment of Brown Ben and she even calls herself queen of rabbits. And then Gilly who is probably a product of incest and was pregnant in those scenes with a child born of incest. To me this points to consuming something that is indicative of procreation for obtaining immortality i.e. pointing out the cognitive dissonance of the symbolism of receiving holy communion/Eucharist which is the body and blood of Christ and committing what essentially boils down to as cannibalism. (That in no way is meant to be offensive to Catholics) There is also another person with similar symbols as well; Bronn. Bronn was also a name of the Fisher King, guardian of the Holy Grail. And currently he is Lord Stokeworth, whose sigil is a lamb holding a golden cup on a green field. But he is of the Blackwater. And black water is the name for wastewater that contains organic waste from toilets. (A shitty version of Bran?) Plus I think it is interesting that he named his wife's son after Tyrion and gave him the surname Tanner. Which tanning hides requires both milk of lime and soaking in dung-water to remove that lime and to bate the hides (make them supple). I especially like the bate part because it can be spelled bait. Which if you think about it, bait for fishing but also Bronn baited Cersei into acting against him and thus led to him becoming Lord Stokeworth. But this might be a stretch. Then we have Bran being a Tully, is from the Red Fork of the Trident but he is closely identified with the Green Fork. And remember we spoke about the symbolism of the forks and their headwaters. Anyway this got away from me. I am reading the rest slowly but I just wanted to share a few thoughts on some of the things that stood out to me in your comment @ravenous reader.

Meera Reed mira in spanish is look! and in Japanese it is the Katakana spelling of the word mirror because of the English pronunciation. Mirai is future and Mite is the imperative to look while Me is eye.

So I guess I should put this here unless someone hasn't said it earlier. Qoherys/ Co-heiress (I wonder what this is referring to) Red Herran (descendant through the female line)/ Heron, a bird that looks like a crane and we have Rose of the Red Lake whose descendants, House Crane, specifically females can skinchange cranes. Ygritte sounds like Egret, a type of Heron that comes from a french word that means 'silver heron' and brush and Ygritte has red hair.

Its definitely possible especially since the Qoherys' were Valyrian in descendant, so it wouldn't be odd that a magic wielding person would appear in their lineage. But Qoherys is similar to Qohor (the Valyrian town) and all of their magic and secrecy would also support this line of thinking. And we know for a fact that Qohor does know at least some of the secrets of Valyrian Steel. So I will concede to that. But I also can't help that they are scapegoats like in sweetsunray's explanation in her bear essay. I like Red Harren/red herring but I think it is a finger pointing at Rose of Red Lake and House Crane's rumors of skin changing cranes/Heron. Not to mention that Cranes are symbols of immortality through the use of their bone marrow but that is a completely different topic. Larra was Lysene and noble and Lys is known for the expert breeding of bedslaves to preserve Valyrian traits. If they are strict with their breeding programs for slaves than why wouldn't the nobles also be strict with their own breeding? We have Princess Saera Targaryen going to Lys (she was a dragon rider) and Prince Aerion Brightflame as well (many believe that fAegon is descended from him). Saera was a daughter of the sitting king of Westeros, she would have been prized for her blood like Viserys I was when he was wed to Larra. Plus House Rogare's story is vaguely reminiscent of what is happening right now with Illaryio/Varys and fAegon combined with the Iron Bank shadiness. I know it seems far fetched the connection between Saera Targ and Larra Rogare but you have Sarra (Illaryio's Lyseni bedslave wife whose hands he keeps in a box which is similar to Argellac's respond to Aegon I's suggestion that Argellac's daughter should marry a known bastard brother of Aegon). And then House Rogare's fall at the hands of the other Lysene nobles with Larra's Brother Moredo raising an army to conqueror Lys. Parallels I know do not always correlate but it is worth speculating.

Nice Catch! Absolutely! The physical manifestation of shyness is hiding ones face and the Maiden-made-of-Light turned her back on the world so it can be said that she is hid her face. Bwt, if we go with the a-sigh pronunciation, the word 'sigh' comes from the old English word Sican which is also the name for a Peruvian culture and means 'temple of the moon'. Edit: and then of course a sigh is an exhalation of air from a person.

Asshai: Everyone pronounces this as a-shy. If you move the stress from the 'a' to the double 's' you get 'as high'.....House Arryn's motto is "As high as honor" could be related? Asshai is also closely pronounced as asahi (a-sigh), the Japanese word for 'sunrise'. We in the fandom suspect Asshai to be the original location of the Great Empire of the Dawn, among other things Japan is often called "The Land of the Rising Sun" and was known as the Empire of the Sun and was classically known as the "Autumn Harbor", "Dragonfly Island", "A Favorable Wind", "Country of Lush Ears (of rice)" and "Country Amidst Reed Plain(s)". Also ashi is also the word for 'reed'. Among other things, the Emperors of Japan are believed to be descended from the sun-goddess Amaterasu (she who shines in heaven) which is rather reminiscent of the Maiden-made-of-light. She also procreated with her brother the Storm God and he gave her a sword that came from the tail of an eight headed giant snake, he killed to save a maiden......

I like that interpretation. And you are right while Alysanne was remembered for being a Good Queen her actions were devastating to the world as a whole. She weakened the magical power of the North which will probably facilitate the Others breaking down The Wall. The Whents; my crazy tinfoil theory that they have drops of dragon blood through the Lothstons.

Nissa Nissa Ni-assa the actual name of Ness, mother of Conchobar mac Nessa by the warrior druid Cathbad and Conchobar was the uncle of Cu Chulainn (The Hound of Ulster and hero of the Cattle Raid of Cooley) through his sister and daughter of Cathbad. And this name means 'not easy, not gentle' and we know that Nissa Nissa did not go gently into the good night since her scream cracked the moon. And Ness led a band of fianna (landless warriors).

All I ever hear is Victarion's voice repeating All Euron's gifts are poison over and over again. But we have that Septon or Measter that commented when Rhaenyra married Laenor Velaryon and equated it to eating fish. While a joke yes we know what issues arose because of that marriage and the one after that. It would have been better for them to have married Rhaenyra to her brother Aegon (and if she didn't like him she could have told her dear uncle and he would have taken care of the problem like so many others). While politically it was a good move especially considering the Sea snake personality and the Queen Who Never Was, he underestimated the ambition of his Queen. So the fish comment and poison that spilled into the realm is very illuminating. He could have easily said he didn't like lettuce or Brussel sprouts or green apples or red grapes but he chose fish. So I want to switch gears. The Freys (oh the Freys) and so we have Frey as in Freyr, the twin brother of Freya, solar fertility God, killed a giant with an antler gave away a magical sword "to the wise one that could wield it". Then we have Fray as in a melee. And my fave fraying at the edges or seams which I pointed out they sit at a crossing and remember we talked about their marriages.

Well there are a lot of references to the story the weaver girl and the cow herd which is a love story about Vega (the brightest star in the constellation Lyra) and Altair (brightest star in Aquila). And then we have a lot of we have a lot of bulls being sacrificed (Gerald Hightower, Little Walder and Styr - should be read as steer cattle).

I don't think anyone has caught onto this but per @LmL's thread about the Ironborn and the heretic greenseers, I noticed that the Black Pearl is named Bellegere Otherys her last name is Others...and while her first name is Bellegere you can split the name and you get beautiful (belle) rules by a spear (Gere is an English rendition of Gehr which is a short form of Gerwald or Gerald).

Thank you! I remember reading the Rune is for woden but I don't know if that is credible. I have another one that I posted in the Arya & Good Queen Alysanne thread

So I don't know if this counts as a wordplay but I was looking at Serwyn of the mirror shield and I thought to myself if he is an example of a knight than why isn't he a Ser. So I saw that his name would be Ser Wyn and we have a few people with this phrase in their first name. I researched it and I found that while it is the actual name for the Norse Rune for the letter w, in Old English it means Joy so I thought to myself there is a family with joy in their last name Greyjoy would then become Greywyn....