Pain killer Jane

First of all, This up here makes absolutely no sense. (Pun fully intended.) Hiemal's comment about the cent-tree/sentry is the coalescence of why the Others are akin to the NWs members. The Others are lightning struck cent-trees that are covered in ash. The Night's King the father of the Others was a watcher on the wall, a sentry and he came down from the wall like a falling star and crowned himself king. And because the damn Pennytree is in between Barba's/Missy's teats it is at the heart of what is going on. So it is disrespectful to act out this way.

And in the Rumplestiltskin story, he spins straw into gold. Jaime having beaten gold hair. That might be related. Doreah is from Lys so that may be related. Btw, one thing I wanted to add that the straw hat is also like the lime stiffened hair and the whitewashing of the weriwood trees. All of those things protect from the sun.

I agree with this. She is definitely acting out the proverb that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

And in most cases the straw hat is used as protection from the sun which while a sacrificed person is an offering to gods, a scarecrow also has the function of being a protective symbol by invoking fear. (Making the sign of the cross.) Egg in his floppy hat learned about the smallfolk and wanted to protect them from the abuses of the nobility which proved fruitless because his children (his fertility) didn't marry how they were supposed to in order to achieve that goal. So you can say in a sense Egg was impotent and Egg did burn like a straw man. But I am not saying all strawmen burn, I am saying that the strawmen are like golems; put together in order to protect. Berric is the scarecrow knight and he was reanimated by fire and had the one purpose of protecting the smallfolk.

Hmm.....well warts could be anything really. But I think since the you quoted Tyrion using warg and wart and Lancel. I would say that in that particular quote 'wart' should be amended to wart [hog] since Lancel giving King Robert (a fertility god archetype) undiluted wine led to him losing to a boar which a warthog is similar to a boar. And Robert was gourd in the groin all the way up to his nipple. And the quote should also be examined in the context of Varamyr, talking about skinchangers. All wargs are skin changers but not all skinchangers are wargs. Warg is the term exclusive to those that can skin change wolves. And we do have wargs and a skin changer that skinchanges a boar named Borroq. And one thing too, Varamyr if I remember correctly does not name boars as a prey animal that when skinchanged does not make their skinchanger a coward. So they should be like bears in a sense. Hunted down, eaten but are as dangerous as an animal classified as a predator. Now per the inclusion of warg/skinchanging and wineskin warrior, I can say that this could relate to Bryndyn Rivers having the nickname Bloodraven because he has a birthmark that is wine colored and goes back to the Edd's comment about being drowned in wine and Ygritte being boiled in the pool at Winterfell. And btw in rl warts are cause by a type of human papilomavirus and genital warts are sexually transmitted. So that could relate to greyscale. But warts on the nose, in our rl are connected with witches per again our modern brains. And therefore would be akin to a beauty mark, mole or liver spots. Brienne has a woman with a liver-colored spot wash her back. She should be considered a spotted person. Which have been noted as being killed. And the liver is where the toxin of alcohol is processed but abuse of alcohol leads to the death of the liver.

I loved LmL's episodes on the Scared Order of Green Zombies.

Well the floppy hat and ears of the Dany's makes her the King/Queen of Rabbits. That is a fertility symbol (and a moon symbol as in Eastern cultures have often said that the moon has a Rabbit pounding the elixir of immortality for the Gods) associated with her Unsullied's spiked helm, Gilly as the pregnant Keeper of Rabbits, the Wild Hares with the hares on the spears, the Unsullied of Qohor having the hair braids of the Dothraki, and leading to the hair/heir pun relating to power in the Dothraki. Floppy since it is connected to fertility symbolism therefore should be considered the euphemism for impotence or not having fertility. However, you are also right in considering them connected to scarecrows as the image of a scarecrow should conjure a straw hat. fAegon having a straw hat is another way of showing that he is the cloth dragon on poles in front of the people cheering. fAegon is the straw man made by Illariyo and Varys and is to be touted as a savior of Westeros. But the thing there is that scarecrows are also sacrificed/crucified people. Imagine the savior of Westeros (with his floppy straw hat) being burned by one of Dany's dragons. Scarecrows also have connections to fertility as originally they were people crucified to ensure a bountiful harvest. But it also has connections to knowledge as the Japanese have a deity that is a scarecrow and the god of knowledge, Kubeiko and Odin spearing himself and hanging himself from Yggdrasil in order to learn the secrets of the runes. We also know this aspect of the scarecrow through the Scarecrow and Jack Pumpkin head in The Wizard of Oz. Having a straw head also means having blonde hair which in our modern times is often used as a euphemism for being dumb, foolish, or forgetful.

Nice find. I don't remember those. I also think that it is interesting that they are women's arms.

He reminds me of a fool knight and his horse is a direct combination of Yggdrasil as a Hanging Tree or Wishing Tree and a Gallows Horse. And since it is related to motely, mottled, rags, we could look at the Tattered Prince, a grey prince with a cloak of many colors (seems reminiscent of Joseph and his Cloak of Many Colors) taking pieces of cloth from the men he has killed to make the blanket for his Grey/white horse (sort of like taking scalps, ears, teeth and since those pieces of cloth probably have dried blood on them then it would echo 'plucking of flowers' Loras does at the Tourney. ETA: Dunk the gallows knight taking Rohanne Webber's hair and possibly giving her an heir.)

Btw we should consider that a lot of the instances of the Myrish Lace are as sleeves which has the same etymology as the word slip. And slipping is warging in text which if you connect them would be Green Sleeves.

Absolutely. Someone should make it topic. And I like the pun

I would say the Arbor Gold would be the duplicity/betrayal because I tend to think it is connected to the whitewashing with lime (lime juice being used to bleach hair such as Lann does and 'Beneath the Gold the bitter steel' would be Iron pyrite, Fool's gold) and cannibalism. Unless the pale green nectar wine is mimicking Arbor Gold. I tend to think they do only because the pale green nectar wine sounds like Absinthe aka the Green Fairy. (This is because it is made of wormwood, worms being both associated with dragons/snakes and death in text.) I agree that the Myrish lace is definitely alluding to a veil covering the eyes, whether that is a mourning veil, a wedding veil, Vale of Arryn, The Wall, the Apocalypse, Veiled Lady, Lady Stoneheart as the Shrouded Lady a la the Shrouded Lord, The Just Maid (alluding to Blind Lady Justice if we combine Tyene Sand wearing the blue dress with Myrish Lace described as the Maid herself with the Maid herself falling in love with Galladon of Morne and putting on a wedding veil and gave her husband/lover a sword). If Arbor Gold is straight up lies then I would say Myrish Lace is lying by omission at worst and veiled truth at best.

Yes Ivory Silk and Myrish Lace. And Margaery's grandmother is the Queen of Thorns and a member of House Redwyne (descendants of Gilbert of the Vines) therefore we can consider Margaery a rose/brier patch person. And Olenna used the Strangler to kill Joffrey which vines and snakes strangle. @Seams here is another instance of the Lies/serpents and Arbor Gold since House Redwyne is the provider of Arbor Gold. Sansa's dress also had dove-gray Myrish Lace on the front. (And Sansa's hairnet had black amethysts that the fandom has connected to the purple snakes that the GOHH sees.) Brienne had a pink satin and Myrish lace dress. Daario had 'a foam of Myrish Lace he color of butter spilled from his collar and cuffs'. And twice Cersei 'wore a gown of sea-green silk, trimmed with Myrish lace as pale as foam.' Once in Game of Thrones and the other time it is described as jade green and with both she wore an emerald described as big as a pigeon's egg. (the colors usually associated with birds is eggshell white and Robin's egg blue.) Tyene Sand had 'a gown of pale blue samite with Myrish lace sleeves that made her look as innocent as the maid herself." And after all she is a Sand Snake. ETA: Que Devil with the Blue Dress On.

I would think so, if we think of the weaving fates as what they are - seers, oracles, prophetesses. And if we think about it in that way, it makes sense that Serala of Myr is nicknamed the Lace Serpent since the Pythia was the name given to the high priestess better known as the Oracle of Delphi. Which was in reference to Python, the original name of Delphi and was the name of the snake that Apollo killed. The word itself means to rot and is in reference to the sickly sweet smell of the rotting corpse of the snake. This is where I think your 'lies and Arbor Gold' fit in since through a Christian lens, snakes represent lies per the snake in the Garden of Eden but snakes in ancient time were considered animals of wisdom. Myr exports a pale green (Arbor/Arboreal) nector (flower/sweet) wine. Eta: This is why Varys smells sweet and Littlefinger smells of mint and even though Varys is called the spider many of us suspect that he is a dragon and both of those men are snakes. Ultimately I think George is saying that sometimes we see things through a (lace) veil. And after all, the word apocalypse means lifting of the veil. Whether it is the veil of death (the fall of the wall or/and the destruction of the Moon Gates to the Vale of Arryn), and any of the other instances of veils. However the lies and snakes/dragon associations is interesting to in the inversion that Dany (a dragon person) is called The Slayer of Lies. And there is ample evidence that dragons are akin to snakes in the text. And we need to consider that George is the name of a saint that killed a dragon as sacrifice if the populace of the town of Silene would be baptized and become Christian. (Hugor Hill and the Swan Maidens)

And the best far-eyes, and seeing lenses come from Myr.

I know, I couldn't resist that since one of the potential places the Starks got greenseer blood was from the Marsh Kings in the Neck. And Meera's brother Jojen is a greendreamer but she is strictly a hunter. Which is something I have been thinking about in terms of the symbolism. A hunter being a green man, that would fit with Robert hunting down the white heart, Harlon the hunter and his twin Herndon of the Horn being sons of Garth- a green man, 'the hunting greens' cloths that we keep seeing, the wild hunt as an aspect of the green man theme. Honestly to me, Meera is the embodiment and confirmation that greenseeing is passed down maternally and is not benign magic but is a weapon. In our real world, her frog-spear trident, was originally a double headed ax named a Labrys and was strictly a symbol of goddess. This interpretation to me is valid since Areo Hotah calls his ax 'his ash and iron wife', we have the craving or whatever it is that depicts a naked woman holding an ax and a suckling baby that is above the gates the home of the Mormonts, a clan of bear warrior women, and then Asha and her ax. eta: To me this whole thing is reminiscent of the story of the Maiden giving Galladon of Morne, a sword, naming it the Just Maid. eta: and it alludes to Artemis (the huntress moon goddess) giving her heart to Orion, the hunter or Selene and Endymion.

No I didn't see that post. I did speculate a while back that Lys is the form of Lyssa which either means wolf-like or madness. As Alyssum is the name of a flower used to cure madness which the name means not mad as in crazy. And Lyc is the root for Lykos and Lycaon, the Greek mythical king that was turned into a wolf because he served his own son's roasted flesh to Zeus. I always figured Lysa was Liza the short form of Elizabeth. And Lysa is crazy. Well in Spanish 'Mira' (Meera) is the verb 'to see' and is the transliteration of mirror in Japanese. GRRM is holding up a mirror at us through the social commentary aspects of the series and I tend to think that is not limited to overall themes because words-their etymologies and uses-are products of the culture they are born in. We can see that in the care GRRM has taken in creating the words of the houses, the euphemisms alluding to a whole manner of things, and the imagery (scenes, landscape, sigils, description of characters) he presents to us. So while in-universe they have specific connotations and meanings, we arrived at those connotations and meanings through our real life connotations and meanings which are products of our cultures. I take the stance that GRRM is usually using our own words against us to present the world he has created. After all 'words are swords'.

The Lyn names could be like the Wyl/Wyn with the others Lys and the names with Myr names as well. Myrcella than would be Serala the Lace Serpent (Taena of Myr doing a good impression of the Lace Serpent with Myrcella's mother). We also have Varamyr, Myriah, Myranda Royce. Myr is Old Norse for bog or mire and is the middle low German word for mure which means wall. A couple of things we find in the North, a swamp known as The Neck, lizard-LIONs and the Wall. eta: Myrcella is an interesting way to spell the Marcella the feminine form of Marcellus, the family name derived from Marcus and ultimately derived from Mars, the Roman God of War. Which I think is funny because since Ares is his Greek name and in English, Ares is pronounced the same as Aries, in the Zodiac, the ram. And Myrcella is a lamb (on the verge of being sacrificed) and is purely a Lion. A lamb in lion's clothing?

You know I forgot about that threat. I said this the other day on the poetry thread about the wine. And here is a bit of history. George Plantagenet(a white rose brother), duke of Clarence, brother of Edward the IV of England after being convicted of treason was drowned in a butt (barrel) of Malmsey wine. A lot of people have mentioned that the Baratheon Brothers seem like the York brothers with a twist. So if Robert is Edward IV and Stannis is Richard III then Renly is George and @LmL, the drowning in wine and then drinking blood fits in with the sacrifice of a horned lord. And I said this later on of the parallel between Gared's description of the his NW brother boiling in wine and its similarity to Jon's dream of Ygritte boiling in the pitch black pool that is in front of the heart tree in Winterfell. (Through a mirror darkly) And with this image of Ygritte and the cannibalism aspect of the allusion, brings to mind the Maidenpool (Jonquil and Florian/Hugor of the Hill killing the Swann Maidens in sacrifice), Rose of Red Lake (and since Ygritte sounds like Egret, the silver heron/crane), Ser Malegorn of Redpool (who is now betrothed to a woman whose father is the head of House Redbeard and has Kingsblood). I forgot about Dontos competely when I was listing connections to the allusion. I didn't even think of Sansa since she thought of herself as Jonquil. ETA: And one thing too Aeron Dmaphair calls the Drowned God, "he who drowned for us". And we have that lovely image that Brienne describes of Jaime saying "had come walking through that mist naked as his name day, looking half a corpse and half a god." And then later she dreams of Jaime in place of Renly as the dying king.

Alright so it has been a long time. Darklyn The part 'Lyn' is usually spelled Lynn and is etymologically defined as stream or pool from the Scottish Gaelic word 'linne'. So the Darklyns should be Dark Pool. Considering that they produced SEVEN kingsguards and technically Dontos is related to them and he played Florian to Sansa's Jonquil.

The Night's Queen Moll Dyer, a woman in 1695 that was accused of witchcraft because she was surviving the "Longest Winter We Have Known" in Leonardtown, Maryland. She was chased out of her home in the woods. Her body was later found frozen to a rock. According to locals, she left her hand prints on the rock. Check out American Supernatural - Wicked Witch of Winter

Alboin, king of the Lombards, second wife was a spoil of war named Rosamund. He humiliated her by forcing her to drink wine out of her father's skull. She enlisted her husband's master at arms and another man to assassinate him. Which she did. Combination of The Boy too Bold by half, Lo Bu and the Dothraki woman who murdered her non-Dothraki husband.

Sorry this is so late. Its been a long couple of days.....Anyway, yes I agree with Baelish turning Sansa into a queen perhaps to protect himself as king. The white ravens or white scarecrows could also be the kingsguard. And I love that you caught that about the crows underwater. I know that a lot of people consider Tyrion to be GRRM's self insert but maybe Bran could be as well. And you are right with the bridge connecting. It could be telling us how Winterfell can be breached without siege. There are plenty of similar situations; Arya and her explorations of the Red Keep; Meereen's sewer system; Casterly Rock's sewer system; the cave under Stormsend. And 'sending a rook to a belltower might be a checkmate' could very well be the idea and yes I agree that it could reflect Bran going from cripple to major player. That is a fantastic find! The trilogy of one in the same. And yes I do think it does allude to the red/black dragon thing. As far as Dany being illegitimate as an interpretation of that song, I could agree because while Aegon VI may be a foil for Jon in terms of their journeys but as Aegon VI is destined to make Dany first, his journey is more of a foil for Dany and not Jon. So we could say the Dany/Aegon situation will be the fight between the virtues of having a female monarch versus a male monarch and perhaps Dany/Jon would really be the question of legitimacy vs illegitimacy. And here is something you would like from Paint it Black

It would make sense if Oz were in the West, as the books are political allegories for the rise of populism in America. Dorothy's silver shoes walking on the golden yellow road was an allusion for the movement of the silver standard superseding the gold standard. The Red Brick Road doesn't exist in the book series. No one really know where it might lead as it was an invention of the movie. I have seen that the Red Brick Road leads to the Sapphire City or Glinda's home. The idea of the red brick road, I like because it evokes the image of a road paved with blood. And we have a lot of quotes that equate blood, dirt and the color red. The Red Mountains of Dorne Astaphori saying of "Bricks and Blood" The red brick of the Red Keep Red Sword of Heroes covered in the life's blood of Nissa Nissa I think the witch that got crushed had a red door. Mostly I think the red door is a finger pointing at the Rollingstones' song Paint It Black. The first line of that song is "I see a red door and I want to paint it black." I like that you noticed the parallel between Dany and Dorothy. There are a few. Dany rides her Silver. Dorothy wears silver shoes (the movie got that part wrong because they wanted to have something striking for the technicolor) Dany's epithet is Stormborn Dorothy's middle name is Gale Jorah tells Dany "You ought to see it when it blooms, all dark red flowers from horizon to horizon, like a sea of blood." This is a allusion to the poppy fields where Dorothy falls asleep. (This is usually interpreted as a feature of the argument against Chinese immigration.)