asongofearthandwind Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 So this is my first post here and i'm still not sure how this works. Also, I don't know if somebody else has already talked about the following. If so, i apologize in advance. I wanted to post this as a comment, but it just got too long.I just been constantly thinking about this and i really want to discuss it in order to maybe get it out of my head. (A Dance with Dragon spoilers ahead) So, all of this started when i was reading further into Sansa's UnKiss, and how GRRM responded to it... "...A small touch of the unreliable narrator. I was trying to establish that the memories of my viewpoint characters are not infallible. Sansa is simply remembering it wrong. A very minor thing (you are the only one to catch it to date), but it was meant to set the stage for a much more important lapse in memory. You will see, in A STORM OF SWORDS and later volumes, that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her the night he came to her bedroom... but if you look at the scene, he never does. That will eventually mean something, but just now it's a subtle touch, something most of the readers may not even pick up on." - GRRM Later, i started thinking about how Bran's story arc ended in ADWD, which was meeting bloodraven and starting his training as a greenseer. Basically, he's going to remain in that "cave" unable to move. Of course, Bran's chapters will focus on the things he sees, since it's the only thing that will make his story evolve or get interesting. It may be relevant but will it be main character-wise relevant? Because how will that contribute to anything? Sure, he saw things that we already knew in the past and present and some hints about a more distant past (like said "benjen and lyanna as kids" and more) and some prophetic things... While it is fun discussing prophecies and enigmatic sentences, i would rather have them from an occasional, passing character once in a while (like maggy the frog or the woman arya meets). They are fun complements to the books but in a PoV, character i prefer major events from the story that will really affect the plot...not a whole chapter about prophecies and misteries. As an entire chapter, it doesn't make sense... Sorry for the dragging, i'm getting to the point: I'm probably being Captain obvious, but then i thought about GRRM reference to the "unreliable narrators" such as Sansa's false memory. Maybe Bran will also be some sort of "outside impartial viewer for unreliable narrators" that will give us a new point of view of some chapters that may lead to plot twists. (Alongside other things) So I ended up thinking that maybe Bran will see Sandor and Sansas's meeting during the blackwater battle, revealing what happened...maybe it's the SanSan fangirl in me, but the kiss could have happened (or maybe i dream too much). Just think about it... 1 - How else will it be revealed what really happened? We will not confirm it through Sansa, since she's the unreliable narrator; although i support the gravedigger theory, Sandor may still be dead, or he could be alive but they may never meet; no one else was there to witness... 2 - GRRM stated that it will mean something... why would she have a meaningful false memory such as a kiss? Suspense for a later revelation? it's not like their kiss/unkiss will change the shape of the story in a dramatic way... i ship them but it's not that meaningful.... like what, Sansa and Sandor meet again, she talks to him about the kiss and he says either "what?" or "oh, yeah, that". I just don't see it being that meaningful or a powerful scene. Unless the truth is revealed through Bran's perspective during the actual scene...it could be during his initial training, or like a warm up for a bigger plot twist... come on! It's super unrealistic but with GRRM i always expect the unexpected...It would be so cute if the kiss happened...and maybe something else like some follow up dialogue she skipped, or what sandor did after he left.... The only reason i'm thinking about this over and over is because i'm a big SanSan fan.That is why i'm posting this, because i feel kind of ridiculous...I gathered the courage just because i saw the wildest crackpot theories out there sooo i'm going to post this....and regret it...... (btw sorry for any possible grammar mistakes english isn't my first language) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultraseamus Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I like the idea that Bran could give us some insight to past or current events. For when one of the PoV characters is not there, or are unreliable. Ever since Ned died, things in King's Landing are shared with us through what could be a distorted lens. Sansa was always very naive, Jamie only became a PoV character when he was disconnected from his family, and Cersei is clearly not all there anymore. Though, I do usually get the impression that, when the events are happening in real-time (not remembered), we are being painted a pretty clear picture. When a character is naive of delusional, the readers often know more about what is going on than the characters. Because the readers are given details that the characters notice, but brush off, or misinterpret. Anyways, my main point was going to be that I think Bran's powers are too limited to show us, for instance, Sandor and Sansa meeting in her room. Because (and I could be wrong here) can't he only see the past thing through weirwoods? Going forward he might have an army crow spies. And, maybe the wolves' connections with his brothers and sisters will let him see things through their eyes.... But I do not get the impression that he would be able to freely view everything in the past, future, and present. All of that being said, it just occurred to me that Bran likely will be able to see Arya training in the past in the House of Black and White. I can;t find proof at the moment, but it seems like there must be a wirewood tree in there. All of the other gods are represented. He should also be able to keep tabs of Sansa pretty well, since she was visiting, and praying to a wirewood very frequently. Between that, and his great view of the North, he'll quickly have a better understanding of current events than just about any other character in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annarkie Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 So this is my first post here and i'm still not sure how this works. Also, I don't know if somebody else has already talked about the following. If so, i apologize in advance. I wanted to post this as a comment, but it just got too long. I just been constantly thinking about this and i really want to discuss it in order to maybe get it out of my head. (A Dance with Dragon spoilers ahead) So, all of this started when i was reading further into Sansa's UnKiss, and how GRRM responded to it... "...A small touch of the unreliable narrator. I was trying to establish that the memories of my viewpoint characters are not infallible. Sansa is simply remembering it wrong. A very minor thing (you are the only one to catch it to date), but it was meant to set the stage for a much more important lapse in memory. You will see, in A STORM OF SWORDS and later volumes, that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her the night he came to her bedroom... but if you look at the scene, he never does. That will eventually mean something, but just now it's a subtle touch, something most of the readers may not even pick up on." - GRRM Later, i started thinking about how Bran's story arc ended in ADWD, which was meeting bloodraven and starting his training as a greenseer. Basically, he's going to remain in that "cave" unable to move. Of course, Bran's chapters will focus on the things he sees, since it's the only thing that will make his story evolve or get interesting. It may be relevant but will it be main character-wise relevant? Because how will that contribute to anything? Sure, he saw things that we already knew in the past and present and some hints about a more distant past (like said "benjen and lyanna as kids" and more) and some prophetic things... While it is fun discussing prophecies and enigmatic sentences, i would rather have them from an occasional, passing character once in a while (like maggy the frog or the woman arya meets). They are fun complements to the books but in a PoV, character i prefer major events from the story that will really affect the plot...not a whole chapter about prophecies and misteries. As an entire chapter, it doesn't make sense... Sorry for the dragging, i'm getting to the point: I'm probably being Captain obvious, but then i thought about GRRM reference to the "unreliable narrators" such as Sansa's false memory. Maybe Bran will also be some sort of "outside impartial viewer for unreliable narrators" that will give us a new point of view of some chapters that may lead to plot twists. (Alongside other things) So I ended up thinking that maybe Bran will see Sandor and Sansas's meeting during the blackwater battle, revealing what happened...maybe it's the SanSan fangirl in me, but the kiss could have happened (or maybe i dream too much). Just think about it... 1 - How else will it be revealed what really happened? We will not confirm it through Sansa, since she's the unreliable narrator; although i support the gravedigger theory, Sandor may still be dead, or he could be alive but they may never meet; no one else was there to witness... 2 - GRRM stated that it will mean something... why would she have a meaningful false memory such as a kiss? Suspense for a later revelation? it's not like their kiss/unkiss will change the shape of the story in a dramatic way... i ship them but it's not that meaningful.... like what, Sansa and Sandor meet again, she talks to him about the kiss and he says either "what?" or "oh, yeah, that". I just don't see it being that meaningful or a powerful scene. Unless the truth is revealed through Bran's perspective during the actual scene...it could be during his initial training, or like a warm up for a bigger plot twist... come on! It's super unrealistic but with GRRM i always expect the unexpected...It would be so cute if the kiss happened...and maybe something else like some follow up dialogue she skipped, or what sandor did after he left.... The only reason i'm thinking about this over and over is because i'm a big SanSan fan. That is why i'm posting this, because i feel kind of ridiculous...I gathered the courage just because i saw the wildest crackpot theories out there sooo i'm going to post this....and regret it...... (btw sorry for any possible grammar mistakes english isn't my first language) It's an interesting theory, though unlikely. It's also definitely not the most crackpot. Some theorize that Sandor and Sansa did a bit more than kissing during Blackwater... using the bloody cloak as a symbol. I think the bloody cloak was there for foreshadowing at that point, but crackpot theories are still interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fauntleroy Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I'm fairly certain the time-travel-esque visions are only connected to the weirnet. If Bran wants to see other stuff he'd have to warg things in the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerWalterPuffsAlot Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I have literally NO clue how GRRM is going to make that an important scene and def nothing i noticed on my own !! But very interesting to say the least. And what we've seen from Bran is the tip of the iceberg of his powers ( i think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaene Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I don't think GRRM is all about the kiss that will be so special. It could be a ramp to reveal another moment unreliable narrated by Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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