(Spoilers) Ghost in Jon Snow's blood

[Ben H'gahr]

Via her visions of course. There is another red priest who saw Dany in her vision and she is now looking for her.

Why would the Rhlor show different visions to his followers ?

Because he is a troll God or because his followers are ... how shall I put this politely ... maybe not always the smartest (see Mel). And the Red God is a God: He wants Mel where she is because of a reason.

I think we cannot just say "and then Mel is going to have a vision of Dany and beam to Mereen (or wherever she hides out at the moment)".

The Red God could show different visions because he wants his followers to do different things / be at different places and / or because there is indeed more than one AA.

[Rinn80]

Because he is a troll God or because his followers are ... how shall I put this politely ... maybe not always the smartest (see Mel). And the Red God is a God: He wants Mel where she is because of a reason.

I think we cannot just say "and then Mel is going to have a vision of Dany and beam to Mereen (or wherever she hides out at the moment)".

That's quite a cruel god, isn't it ? A god that favors massacre by telling Mel to sacrifice/burn ppl, while on the other hand he sort of points out the new AA who should lead ppl into light. Either this god is a lair or a big sadist or Mel just misinterprets the visions.

The Red God could show different visions because he wants his followers to do different things / be at different places and / or because there is indeed more than one AA.

Thus this god creates discord within the society by putting two armies against each other. On the one side we have Dan and her supporters and on the other side we might have Jon & Co. And if this god tells Mel that the other side is wrong, then she will convince Jon that the other side is evil (just like she managed to control and mislead Stannis to his own doom). And I don't think that this will happen.

I think the problem is Mel herself. She is just not as capable of interpreting the visions as well as its supposed to be. Maybe she is too impatient and makes wrong decisions. And Jon has noticed this several times.

My opinion is that Dan will lead the fight to Westeros and conquer it. And Jon will conquer the North back by defeating the WW, The Boltons and other traitors who killed his family. Dan is only interested in KL because she thinks that's her home. So she won't conflict with the Northern ppl and besides that she doesn't seem to be someone who loves war just for the sake of wealth or greed.

[Ben H'gahr]

That's the point w/Mel: she clearly misinterprets her visions constantly.

[Visceral Varys]

Even with special skills Mel makes human mistakes. She interpreted her visions through a lens clouded with ambition and ego. She wanted to be the one who discovers and leads AA/The Prince and therefore had bent every vision in that direction.

In the show I think we see her realization at what she has done and it shakes her to her core. She's as low as she can get. She may even have lost her faith - certainly her belief in herself.

My feeling is that it will be this loss that leads her to resurrect Jon as she may suddenly understand her visions. Much like Thoros (sp?) it may be her loss of faith that allows The Red God to utilize her. Kind of like getting all that ego out of the way, removing the roadblock, if you will, to allow him to work through her.

She needed to be humbled.

[Ben H'gahr]

:agree: I agree again. It appears to me that "losing faith and asking for a favor" or so is maybe sth like a "necessary condition" to trigger the resurrection skill of the Red Priests.

[Visceral Varys]

:agree: I agree again. It appears to me that "losing faith and asking for a favor" or so is maybe sth like a "necessary condition" to trigger the resurrection skill of the Red Priests.

In thinking about the ways that Jon can "come back" there really aren't many options, right?

The most sensible given the way the show has set everything up is for Me to resurrect him. She's at the wall, that whole scene with Thoros and the resurrection of whats-his-bucket (forgot his name) etc.

Warging has to be out as there has been no set-up for it and would be a pull from the ass scene at best. Even so far as in season 3 I think when Jon met the Wilding dude who can warg and asked "What's wrong with him?". Jon has no clue about warging.

It has to be resurrection, right?

Now, as to how he finds out about his parentage. I did have this off-the-wall thought. I lolz at myself.

OK, get this. Remember in season 1 (or was it 2?) when Rickon was in the Winterfell catacombs he said he saw his father Ned walking around. Ned's ghost. I believe he did see him and that it will emerge, when we finally see Rickon again, that he has some abilities (he may in the book?). It could be that ghosts play some part in all this. No, Jon does not come back as a ghost - even if his wolf is named Ghost it isn't foreshadowing. Or is it? I mean, I haven't read the books so maybe Martin does go there but anyway... What if Bran is able to connect the spirits of Ned and Jon for a little "who's your daddy" convo in the netherworld? Or "who's your momma" - or both. Jon has to find out in some way who his parents are. And then he has that memory when he is resurrected... But this is so far out there it's crazy.

I came up with this because the mention of Ned's ghost by Rickon has to mean something I just don't know what. See what this show does to me?

[Ben H'gahr]

Interesting option indeed!

But did you ever notice that people seem to think that "Jon being resurrected" and "Jon knows finally about his mother" always seem to appear together? As if he days - [then some magic happens] - and all of a sudden he wakes up from the dead and knows who his momma was.

I'm just saying that there is no reason to assume that these two things happen simultaneously - which doesn't mean that it wouldn't be cool if it was to happen somehow, e.g. like in your description above!

But also, he needs to kinda convince other people about this. It can't just be like: "hey lads, I'm back from the dead and guess what happened: I was talking to my cripple brother who is no living under a tree with a 130yr old man and they told me that Rhaeger, not Ned Stark is my father and Lyanna is my mom! Cool story, ey! So I'm off now conquer the throne (I know I know, not another one trying you will say) since I'm the rightful heir of the 7K. See you later guys, and would you mind taking care of preventing the apocalypse for me! thanks a lot!"

In this case the ppl at CB might as well just kill him a 2nd time because they think he's a lunatic. (No offense)

I mean, a guy coming back form the dead is already hard enough to swallow - but he also kinda knowing that he is the son of L+R (or at least somehow finding out who his momma was), that would be too much.

On the other hand: it could also be implemented in a cool way and Jon (at least before the FTW-moment) didn't seem like the kinda guy who would just blow out that he finally knows by whom he was born, he would keep that for himself I guess.

Just my pointless 2cents on this.

[Visceral Varys]

No, I agree, there has to be some proof of his parentage if it is important for the public to know - if he wants to become King. I don't know that he does but leadership comes naturally to him. Notice Dany has to work at it while Jon can't seem to help but lead.

I wonder if that proof comes from Ned's friend, the one at the Tower of Joy. Forgive me I don't remember a lot of these names from the book (that I've not read! lol). Or, Benjen does indeed come back, for realz this time. I firmly believe he would know the truth. Ned had to tell someone because, let's be serious, he lead a bit of a dangerous life. What are the chances he gets killed before telling Jon? Living Will, Ned?

And he was setting it up. Ned's words (in the show) to Jon when they last saw each other were: "You may not have my name, but you have my blood". He didn't say "You are my son" He also never pressed the point of legitimizing Jon which an honorable Ned would have done.

The show dropped so many hints about his parentage that he has to continue on because with his death his parentage does not matter.

But I stand by the Ned's ghost thing will be important somehow as it was a rather obvious mention by Rickon. :)

[Zoe Stark]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:bs: :dunce: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Did you see Elvis in the smoke during 9/11? He did it, I swear.

Did you see the number of blips emanating from the liquid? I count 11. There are 31 days in December, 31-11=20 . 20, that's how old Kit was in 2007. 2007-2006=1. 1 looks like an L. L is the first letter in Life. Jon is alive.

Disprove me. I dare you.

Amazing

[Ben H'gahr]

No, I agree, there has to be some proof of his parentage if it is important for the public to know - if he wants to become King. I don't know that he does but leadership comes naturally to him. Notice Dany has to work at it while Jon can't seem to help but lead.

I wonder if that proof comes from Ned's friend, the one at the Tower of Joy. Forgive me I don't remember a lot of these names from the book (that I've not read! lol). Or, Benjen does indeed come back, for realz this time. I firmly believe he would know the truth. Ned had to tell someone because, let's be serious, he lead a bit of a dangerous life. What are the chances he gets killed before telling Jon? Living Will, Ned?

And he was setting it up. Ned's words (in the show) to Jon when they last saw each other were: "You may not have my name, but you have my blood". He didn't say "You are my son" He also never pressed the point of legitimizing Jon which an honorable Ned would have done.

The show dropped so many hints about his parentage that he has to continue on because with his death his parentage does not matter.

But I stand by the Ned's ghost thing will be important somehow as it was a rather obvious mention by Rickon. :)

I think you mean a certain Howland Reed^^.

What I always thought: Jon meets Dany, they talk and he talks about his mummy and his daddy. He meets the Dragons and the kinda "follow his orders" / "are nice to him" etc because he is a real Dragon as well. This convinces Dany and they team up.