Astoporian Fools?

[Lucreel]

This thread is for discussion about Daenerys, in the slave city of Astapor. Rest of discussion in spoiler tags, so as not to spoil it for anyone else who hasn't reached there yet.

I have to say, sometimes my suspension of disbelief is stretched a little tight while reading the books. Astapors main defense is the Unsullied. They are about to sell ALL OF THEIR Unsullied at once. I'm about 99% sure that Daenerys, once she has taken "ownership" of the Unsullied, will immediately order them to sack Astapor, kill the slavers, free the slaves, and take back her Drogon. I was already thinking she might do something like that before she offered the slavers one of her dragons, but now I'm sure - she wouldn't offer the dragon unless she intended to get him back.

I know the slavers are greedy, but even very greedy men are usually not so stupid as to give all of their soldiers to someone else. Even if Daenerys doesn't sack this city, which I'm pretty sure she will, it would leave them almost completely defenseless for a year or two while they trained more. Nobody could be that stupid. Nobody.

Edit: Upon reflection, I have encountered enough bloody stupid people in my life that I suppose it's possible, but I just don't think those slavers, being in the business they are, could have been in business for hundreds or thousands of years without anyone else ever having tried the exact same thing before. When you sell weapons to others, you take precautions to make sure you don't die from your own weapons (e.g. I bet when the U.S. sells high tech missles and things to other countries, they have a secret remote-disable capability so that if they are ever fired at the U.S. or U.S. forces abroad, the DoD can turn them off). I just have a very, very hard time believing that it would never occur to the Astaporians that the Unsullied could be used to attack them, once sold.

Edit 2: After a moment or two of reflection, it occurs to me that perhaps the Astaporians are aware of the possibility of treachery, and plan to betray her before she can betray them. . . Mayhaps it's Dany that's playing the fool, if I'm correct about her intentions.

[Lucreel]

So, I finished reading the chapter. . .

Yup, she did exactly as I expected. Again, I have a hard time believing that men in the business of selling slave warriors wouldn't have, generations before, taken precautions against just this eventuality. Still, kind of a cool chapter, even if it strains credibility a little bit.

[Ser Celery]

So, I finished reading the chapter. . .

Yup, she did exactly as I expected. Again, I have a hard time believing that men in the business of selling slave warriors wouldn't have, generations before, taken precautions against just this eventuality. Still, kind of a cool chapter, even if it strains credibility a little bit.

A possible explanation:

It was made very clear, while Daenerys feigned not being able to understand the tongue, that the slavers had the opinion of her being a stupid whore, etc. That slaver called her most every slander. So I think they did hardly see any threat in her.

But you are absolutely right, it was a rather unsurprising move in the end, and they must have been blind by greed to do such a thing.

Mayhaps we can also assume that they, being slavers themselves for generations, could not imagine anyone highborn to free slaves.

[zmflavius]

I think that they genuinely did not expect an attack, under any circumstances.

This, admittedly, is an exceedingly stupid attitude to take under any circumstances, but given their role in society, historically, their greatest protection was not their Unsullied, the finest foot in the world, so to speak, but the fact that in an area where nearly everyone depends on slaves, where virtually every economy in the world outside Braavos and Westeros depends on slaves, it would be mad or stupid for anyone to sack the main centres of slave production and trade. And while this would work for anyone who has a vested interest in preserving the slave trade (IE, the Dothraki, hence why they never bother sacking the slave cities), it would not work on anyone who not only doesn't really give a shit about slavery, or worse for them, actually despises slavery. Like say, any Westerosi or Braavosi, such as an exiled Westerosi Queen. However, they have traded slaves for thousands of years, and it seems that after several thousand years of slave trading, they ended up genuinely believing that nobody would attack them, completely forgetting why nobody would attack them.

[bafleyanne]

I think they probably also expected that, if they sold the Unsullied to her and she didn't hold up her end of the bargain (by taking back the dragon) that they'd be able to get the Unsullied to come back to their side.

Of course, she doesn't actually "take back" the dragon, because as she points out, you can't enslave a dragon, he can just refuse to go with you. And the Unsullied stay loyal to her as well. I wondered when I was reading if the majority of the Unsullied actually realize they are truly free.

[Mattyp]

I think that they genuinely did not expect an attack, under any circumstances.

This, admittedly, is an exceedingly stupid attitude to take under any circumstances, but given their role in society, historically, their greatest protection was not their Unsullied, the finest foot in the world, so to speak, but the fact that in an area where nearly everyone depends on slaves, where virtually every economy in the world outside Braavos and Westeros depends on slaves, it would be mad or stupid for anyone to sack the main centres of slave production and trade. And while this would work for anyone who has a vested interest in preserving the slave trade (IE, the Dothraki, hence why they never bother sacking the slave cities), it would not work on anyone who not only doesn't really give a shit about slavery, or worse for them, actually despises slavery. Like say, any Westerosi or Braavosi, such as an exiled Westerosi Queen. However, they have traded slaves for thousands of years, and it seems that after several thousand years of slave trading, they ended up genuinely believing that nobody would attack them, completely forgetting why nobody would attack them.

This is a brilliant explanation and is one that I haven't considered.

As has already been pointed out they drastically underestimated Dany and instead saw her shock and disgust as stupidity. They were also blinded by the prospect of owning a dragon.

[Lucreel]

This is a brilliant explanation and is one that I haven't considered.

As has already been pointed out they drastically underestimated Dany and instead saw her shock and disgust as stupidity. They were also blinded by the prospect of owning a dragon.

But this argument goes back to a case-by-case idea. I guess what I'm puzzled by is why they haven't already, for a thousand years, had a contingency plan in place, that had nothing to do with Dany. I would be worried about this outcome with *every single buyer* I was selling to. That is, it might not have been Dany, but as long as they left that possibility open, it could be *any other* buyer that could have done the same thing.

You don't put up a wall around a castle on a case-by-case basis. The wall blocks everyone, then you let a few through on a case by case basis.

I also don't understand how this has never happened to them before since they had no contingency for this situation. I guess they've never had anyone try to buy their entire barracks before, so it never occurred to them. Perhaps it occurred to their ancestors, but was forgotten over the years when no one could afford to buy the whole barracks, and no attack ever came.

[Silmarien]

This thread is for discussion about Daenerys, in the slave city of Astapor. Rest of discussion in spoiler tags, so as not to spoil it for anyone else who hasn't reached there yet.

I have to say, sometimes my suspension of disbelief is stretched a little tight while reading the books. Astapors main defense is the Unsullied. They are about to sell ALL OF THEIR Unsullied at once. I'm about 99% sure that Daenerys, once she has taken "ownership" of the Unsullied, will immediately order them to sack Astapor, kill the slavers, free the slaves, and take back her Drogon. I was already thinking she might do something like that before she offered the slavers one of her dragons, but now I'm sure - she wouldn't offer the dragon unless she intended to get him back.

I know the slavers are greedy, but even very greedy men are usually not so stupid as to give all of their soldiers to someone else. Even if Daenerys doesn't sack this city, which I'm pretty sure she will, it would leave them almost completely defenseless for a year or two while they trained more. Nobody could be that stupid. Nobody.

Edit: Upon reflection, I have encountered enough bloody stupid people in my life that I suppose it's possible, but I just don't think those slavers, being in the business they are, could have been in business for hundreds or thousands of years without anyone else ever having tried the exact same thing before. When you sell weapons to others, you take precautions to make sure you don't die from your own weapons (e.g. I bet when the U.S. sells high tech missles and things to other countries, they have a secret remote-disable capability so that if they are ever fired at the U.S. or U.S. forces abroad, the DoD can turn them off). I just have a very, very hard time believing that it would never occur to the Astaporians that the Unsullied could be used to attack them, once sold.

Edit 2: After a moment or two of reflection, it occurs to me that perhaps the Astaporians are aware of the possibility of treachery, and plan to betray her before she can betray them. . . Mayhaps it's Dany that's playing the fool, if I'm correct about her intentions.

Well, they certainly aren't about to part with ALL of the Unsullied willingly. Though you discount the value of owning one of only three dragons existing in the world. So Dany offering them a dragon might make them more willing to meet her terms.

I won't give it away, but keep reading.