Westeros Technology

[StormBornQueen]

I don't think GRRM's world needs to be compared with anything from our world actually. It IS a completely made up world after all :wideeyed:

With that said I think it's comparable to about early 14th century or so. That was before gunpowder started being manufactured in Britain.

[OldGimletEye]

Not at all. The Industrial Revolution was initially driven by waterpower, an excess of manpower as agricultural processes became more efficient, and increasingly sophisticated application of the two. There's a reason why the milltowns were originally all near fast-flowing streams.

I would futher add that the Industrial Revolution was also the product of intellectual change. Things like Newton and Liebinitz inventing calculus, the rise of the enlightenment, the invention of the scientific method, etc.

Also banking and finance got more sophisticated.

[DominusNovus]

I would futher add that the Industrial Revolution was also the product of intellectual change. Things like Newton and Liebinitz inventing calculus, the rise of the enlightenment, the invention of the scientific method, etc.

Also banking and finance got more sophisticated.

I agree that the increasing sophistication of commercial ventures and techniques were an important intellectual change, but I don't necessarily feel that there was much that theoretical science had to do with the industrial revolution until it had taken off and was already self-perpetuating.

Or, to put it another way: It was much more vital to the second Industrial Revolution. But when the early industrialists were building their textile mills, the scientific method did not enter into the equation much.

[Littlefinger's dagger]

Lord Stark: "Tech has clearly advanced in Westeros, be it at a slow pace in some areas, it hasn't been a medieval tech world for 12,000 years."

Umm, no. Medieval != stone age technology as would have been in westeros at the arrival of the first men, who arrived with bronze weapons (the tech level of Europe in, say, 2000 BC). You might want to refresh yourself on the definition of medieval as applied to history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages

Westeros in the books is in most respects at a tech level close to the end of the medieval period, equivalent to the 14th/15th century in Europe, with the most notable exception that there is no gunpowder/cannons/early guns, which were making themselves felt though not as common as they would become. They work both iron and steel, there is plate armor and long bows, the ship designs are similar, water-driven grain mills, leeching and bloodletting are common in medicine, anasthetics other than raw opium are unknown. . . Perhaps Terry Pratchett summed it up best about how one truly "gets medieval":

'I thought maybe a maypole,' said Mr Tulip reflectively. 'An' then a display of country dancing, land tillage under the three-field system, several plagues and, if my --ing hand ain't too tired, the invention of the --ing horse collar."

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Also, remember that the industrial revolution in our world was entirely driven by the exploitation fossil fuels. If those don't exist in Martinworld (or in lesser quantities), then it's not surprising at all that technologies would remain rather medieval. If our world didn't have several billion years' worth of solar energy stored up in the form of oil and coal, we'd all still likely be somewhere between barbarism and feudalism as well.

Or they exist, but simply no one has had the breakthrough of discovering and using them.

[Lord Stark]

Lord Stark: "Tech has clearly advanced in Westeros, be it at a slow pace in some areas, it hasn't been a medieval tech world for 12,000 years."

Umm, no. Medieval != stone age technology as would have been in westeros at the arrival of the first men, who arrived with bronze weapons (the tech level of Europe in, say, 2000 BC). You might want to refresh yourself on the definition of medieval as applied to history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages

Westeros in the books is in most respects at a tech level close to the end of the medieval period, equivalent to the 14th/15th century in Europe, with the most notable exception that there is no gunpowder/cannons/early guns, which were making themselves felt though not as common as they would become. They work both iron and steel, there is plate armor and long bows, the ship designs are similar, water-driven grain mills, leeching and bloodletting are common in medicine, anasthetics other than raw opium are unknown. . . Perhaps Terry Pratchett summed it up best about how one truly "gets medieval":

'I thought maybe a maypole,' said Mr Tulip reflectively. 'An' then a display of country dancing, land tillage under the three-field system, several plagues and, if my --ing hand ain't too tired, the invention of the --ing horse collar."

I have no idea what your going on about. First, please read the part you quoted, where I state that Westeros has not been at a 'medieval' level tech for 12,000 years, but they have been advances, and then I go on to mention that the First Men came with only bronze weapons, and that it could have been only a small group of it. Not sure why you would feel the need to state I am wrong, and even post a wiki link to the middle age, when your small point seems to agree with mine.

I'm not sure if your putting thoughts into your head, and believe I said that Westeros has been a medieval level tech for 12,000 years.

Also, while some of Westeros, but mostly Essos is at a 15th century tech, this is not vastly true for Westeros as whole, and their naval/ships are no where near that, and in fact are ratehr lacking. We hear of sailing ships, but Westeros mostly relies on oared ships, such as Galleys and Longships, they also seem to lack much naval tech. Westeros at the current time is a mix match of medieval level tech, some high, and early.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

I have no idea what your going on about. First, please read the part you quoted, where I state that Westeros has not been at a 'medieval' level tech for 12,000 years, but they have been advances, and then I go on to mention that the First Men came with only bronze weapons, and that it could have been only a small group of it. Not sure why you would feel the need to state I am wrong, and even post a wiki link to the middle age, when your small point seems to agree with mine.

I'm not sure if your putting thoughts into your head, and believe I said that Westeros has been a medieval level tech for 12,000 years.

Perhaps they thought you meant that it's been 12,000 years since Westeros has been at a medieval tech level.

[Littlefinger's dagger]

"Tech has clearly advanced in Westeros, be it at a slow pace in some areas, it hasn't been a medieval tech world for 12,000 years."

I read that as though you were saying the medieval level had been surpassed 12,00 years ago, when it was clearly as case of stone age meeting bronze age in that period with Medieval levels still to come. It's ambiguously put, I can see how you could have meant the present medieval tech level hadn't prevailed for all of their known history: Implying they had only achieved the present level some time after the Andal invasion (it's unclear how far into the Iron Age the Andals were, but give it at least 1000 years to develop into even early medieval levels).

If the medieval tech level had been surpassed 12,000 years ago in the fictive universe, this would be lasers and space ships, not swords and dragons. At least not without some serious suppression of development by Piper's Time Corps.

[Lord Reaver]

Also, while some of Westeros, but mostly Essos is at a 15th century tech, this is not vastly true for Westeros as whole, and their naval/ships are no where near that, and in fact are ratehr lacking. We hear of sailing ships, but Westeros mostly relies on oared ships, such as Galleys and Longships, they also seem to lack much naval tech. Westeros at the current time is a mix match of medieval level tech, some high, and early.

Longships were sailing ships, make no mistake. They also had oars, yes, but no way could the Norse have made it to North America using oars alone. In fact, when not in war or going up rivers, sails were the main source of power.