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DominusNovus

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  1. DominusNovus

    Yet another Demography Thread

    That sounds like a reasonable number to throw out there, but I'd adjust your latter year a bit further out. Winter's just started, and despite how screwed everyone seems to be, it will take awhile for that to set in. Of course, if we look too far out, then you have the Others causing further... demographic fluctuations. Well, depending on what you count wights as.
  2. DominusNovus

    How to improve the north economically?

    Obligatory mention: https://racefortheironthrone.tumblr.com/post/126153637681/the-norths-economic-development-plan
  3. DominusNovus

    Yet another Demography Thread

    The urbanization rates are totally screwy, I agree. Westeros is very unurbanized (possibly implausibly so). That said, I do think that the US is a fair comparison, even though it is an industrial society by 1870, because so much of that land was utterly untouched. There is no Alaska in Westeros, not even the North. Heck, in 1870, most of the West was barely settled (not to dismiss the American Indians, but their numbers were quite low). Do we have anywhere in Westeros that is regarded as barren? Pretty much Dorne, and thats it. I think that the US could support that same population at a lower technology level. After all, Europe, combined is only slightly larger than the US (10.1 million km^2), and in the middle ages, it tended to have a comparable population to Westeros. If you'll permit me using wikipedia (I know, I know, but all the other sources are in the same ballpark): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_demography We see the population ranged from 56 million to 90 million between 1000 and 1500, per that source. Others vary, but not by a large degree. I would say that that has more of an impact on the urbanization rate. The population is far more diffuse than would otherwise be likely. Which means that the population is more protected from the harsh winters - it is easier to feed a small village than a great city. Its also quite possible that the population is far more volatile than our world. Actually, not just possible, almost certain. Winter probably kills off more, but summer allows for more bounty and more growth, and the simple fact that while the population is more likely to be trimmed during hard winters, the infrastructure isn't, not to mention that in the areas with the hardest winters, its the oldest that tend to die first ('gone hunting' and all that). I expect every spring and and early summer to be something of a mini-baby boom. Also likely is that the population will see something of a material improvement come each spring, as property gets freed up - think something like the Black Death in Europe (which Europe recovered from in a century). My guess is that Westeros' population graph would zigzag quite a bit, but if you average it out over each seasonal cycle, you'd probably get a value not too far off from that common estimate of 40 million.
  4. I know there has been plenty of discussion about whether or not the demographics of Westeros (south of the Wall) make sense. Generally, opinions seem to be less than positive on that account. However, I was looking at some of the numbers, and I think they're not as bad as is sometimes argued. First, I started with the size of Westeros, and found this analysis fairly convincing: https://www.quora.com/How-large-are-the-seven-kingdoms-of-Westeros https://www.quora.com/How-big-is-Westeros-compared-to-our-world/answer/Sunil-Kumar-Gopal Which puts Westeros in at just about 9.3 million km^2, just a tad smaller than the United States. As for population, the most common consensus seems to be around 40 million, with a fairly wide margin of error. Interestingly enough, the US population in 1870, the first census after the Alaksa purchase (meaning the first census after the US reached something similar to its present total area) has the US population at 38.9 million, of whom, the overwhelming majority (38.2 million) lived in states, rather than territories. So, overall, the US of 1870 was about as densely populated as the Seven Kingdoms when the books start. Now, obviously, the US was much more urbanized and technologically advanced. That said, it also included Alaska, which was (and is) far less densely populated, and really skews the US's numbers. And the majority population had settled there only in recent years. I think its reasonable for a Westeros that had been inhabited, more or less, by the same basic population (First Men, Andals, and Rhoynar, all coexisting mostly in similar political arrangements) for millennia, to have a stable population that is in the same range.
  5. DominusNovus

    Is there romantic love between Ned and Catelyn?

    There's some truth in here, though the overall gist is a bit over the top. There is a valid place for romantic love in a relationship, but that type of love is elevated - at the expense of other types - to an improper degree in our culture. It doesn't help that, in English, we use one word for multiple related concepts. Of course, in the Greek, there's much more nuance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love
  6. DominusNovus

    Is there romantic love between Ned and Catelyn?

    No problem. I will add a little nuance by clarifying that love for your children isn’t a replacement for love for your spouse, they should work in concert.
  7. DominusNovus

    Is there romantic love between Ned and Catelyn?

    No, its not. To pay more attention to your spouse - or expect your spouse to pay more attention to you - than you pay to your child is horrible parenting. Your spouse is a grown adult, they don’t need a tenth the attention that a child does. Children are called dependents for a reason. I could go on, but this point shouldn’t need to be made. As to the basic point, different couples love each other differently. Some are more affectionate, some are less. Some verbalize their love, some do it through actions. And so on, and so forth. For example, I have a pet name for my wife. The pet name is ‘wife,’ because I have an offbeat sense of humor. Every couple is unique. I’m sure if a random stranger heard me call her ‘wife’ they would think I’m oddly cold. Meanwhile, we have insight into their characters’ inner thoughts, and both Ned and Cat think they love each other, so I say its fair to assume they know better than we do.
  8. It hardly shows a man who is interested in controlling his wife.
  9. He couldn’t be bothered to keep Cersei from screwing her brother?
  10. I meant to ask for the specific quote, but I found it. Anyway, I still don’t find the quote quite as definitive as it could be. Is Ned thinking of teenaged Robert? Or is he thinking of King Robert? Or both?
  11. Do we know that he'd swear his undying love for some woman and then forget her?
  12. I really don’t know how well that analogy works, but I’m picturing Cersei as a car that doesn’t let you drive her, and occasionally tries to run you over. And I chuckle.
  13. How many pages of characterization do we have for Lyanna, in the entire series?
  14. DominusNovus

    The Night’s Watch and the Gift(s) don’t make sense

    I think we’re talking at cross purposes here, then.
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