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Rhaenys_Targaryen

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  1. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    Ran, is these going to be a banner at the top of each wiki page stating that F&B updates on the wiki are allowed only from December 20 onwards? Like you did for TWOIAF?
  2. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    FIRE AND BLOOD EXCERPT

    Although we don't know who inherited House Targaryen after Borros died, through Alyssa Velaryon, both Boremund and Jocelyn, and thus also their descendants, had Targaryen blood, without giving Borros a good enough claim for the throne to make such an attempt. And let's not forget Rhaena's six daughters. On the other hand, Olenna also claims to have been the one to end her betrothal (which she does not describe as a betrothal, but what it definitly was), but history disagrees so perhaps she is exaggerating the truth here as well.
  3. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    R+L=J v.165

    Twoiaf places Rossart's appointment after the Trident. By doing so, it does indicate the passage of time, as we know that Chelsted died while Darry, who left for the Trident with Rhaegar, was still in KL that night. The suggestion of such a passage of time does not need the explicit statement "after x weeks, Aerys now named a new Hand" or something similar, nor needs to specifically call it a vacancy period.
  4. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    R+L=J v.165

    The entire discussion came forth from the fact that TWOIAF does, in fact, place Rossart's appointment after Rhaegar's death at the Trident. And thus, a little while after Chelsted's death. That is a reference in a published work, even if no specific amount of weeks are stated.
  5. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    R+L=J v.165

    We don't know what the original intent of the author was. Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't. GRRM gave himself enough room to decide later on. We know that the issue was discussed, after which the author made the decision (as per Ran's post) to place Rossart's appointment explicitly after Rhaegar's death at the Trident (as per TWOIAF). We do learn about the Chelsted-Rossart succession, but the only thing that we learn is that Chelsted was burned by Rossart, and that Rossart was named after Chelsted. We learn nothing, at no point whatsoever, about the amount of time that passed, or did not pass, in between. That is, until TWOIAF, where a timing is finally given. All the other quotes ( @Bael's Bastard's previous post gives a nice overview of all available quotes) only tell us that Rossart came after Chelsted, and that Darry was present at King's Landing the night Chelsted was burned, and eventually left with Rhaegar for the Trident. The Jaime-Darry "thing" causes no problem whatsoever`. Darry was in KL when Chelsted was burned (AFFC, Jaime 2). Darry left for the Trident with Rhaegar (AFFC, Jaime 1). Rossart was Chelsted's successor as Hand (ACOK, Tyrion 1; ASOS Jaime V), after Rhaegar had died (TWOIAF: The Fall of the Dragons - The End), Rossart was Hand for a fortnight (ACOK, Tyrion 1; ASOS, Jaime 3). We are talking about a vacancy that lasted about two weeks, and the person who was to appoint a Hand was a paranoid king in the middle of a war. That he did not immediately appoint a new Hand is not a strange thing. Whatever the reason, and no matter if that reason was originally intended, or only decided upon after fleshing out that part of the war more.
  6. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    The Illyrio/Aegon thing

    That's not entirely true. She was dishonored at Harrenhal, and she "looked to Stark" (instead of Barristan). That might imply "Stark" dishonored her after she "looked" to him, or that she "looked to Stark" for help after having been dishonored. The quote does not state which option is correct here. But Barristan does not state here that the Stark was the person who dishonored her. The identity of the man is left unknown in the quote. But Ashara's daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her. How could she? He was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to celibacy. No good could have come from telling her his feelings. No good came from silence either. If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark? (ADWD, The Kingbreaker)
  7. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    R+L=J v.165

    Because this topic (the timing of Rossart's appointment as Hand) has come up in this thread frequently during timeline discussions, I thought it would be useful to post this here.
  8. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    A continuity error regarding Jonothor Darry?

    Completely read past that! Thanks again!
  9. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    A continuity error regarding Jonothor Darry?

    Since the fortnight seems to fit so very well with all the other times we see people (whether large groups or small) travel from to the Trident, I have wondered for quite some time: Is it possible that some time passed between Chelsted's death and Rossart's appointment? So that Rossart was only made Hand after Rhaegar had already left the city to fight on the Trident? Thanks for the tag!
  10. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    The Lord of Jordayne is Lord Trebor Jordayne. His heir is his daughter, Myria. In AFFC and in ADWD, a "Lady Jordayne" is mentioned; and Is this "Lady Jordayne" Lord Trebor's wife (so-far not mentioned by name nor listed in an appendix), or Trebor's daughter, Myria?
  11. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    @Ran, any input on this?
  12. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Small Questions v. 10105

    As yes, he was "thirty-something". I had forgotten. Do we have any hints as to when She-Wolves will take place? I know it won't take place many years after TMK, but do we have any way of establishing a limit? Beron was gathering swords t o fight Dagon in 211 AC (TMK) and was injured fighting Dagon as per TMK ("") and this report. All we know further is that by 226 AC, Lord Willam Stark ruled the north, but logic tells us that Beron died years before that, of course Willam inherited Winterfell from his brother Donnor, who inherited his rule from Beron, but we do not know how long Donnor ruled. Aegon v got married in 220 AC, so we might take that as a maximum? Is there anything else?
  13. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Small Questions v. 10105

    Small correction: Aerion was sent to Essos in 209 AC, after the tourney at Ashford. We don't know how long he was gone or when he returned, but he was back in Westeros to fight in the third Blackfyre Reblelionin 219 AC> Also, we don't know when Rodrik was born, or when he died. Rodrik was the seventh child of Lord Beron, who was the second child of Lord Brandon, who was fifth child of Lord Cregan by his third wife. We don't know when Cregan married his third wife, but we do know that he married his second wife after the Dance of the Dragons ended in 131 AC. How long they might have waited to get married, we do not know. Regardless, we know that Cregan and his second wife had four children, and that they could not have gotten married before the second half of 131 AC (as the war lasted half of 131 AC), so, even if he had gotten married to his second wife within the weeks after wars end, his youngest child by her could not have been born before 135 AC. In the most "generous" scenario, Cregan's second wife (Aly Blackwood) died that year and he immediately remarried (to Lynara Stark), who immediately became pregnant and gave birth at the end of that same year (135 AC). Brandon, the fifth child, could thus not have been born earlier than 140 AC, and Brandon's second child (assuming an age of 13 at the least for fathering a first child) in 154 AC (Beron). Subsequently, Beron's seventh child could not possibly have been born earlier than 19 years later, in 173 AC. We also know, about Beron, that he was dying around 211 AC, placing Rodrik's birth no later than that. However, these are minimums and maximums, so every year in between these two values (173 AC and 211 AC) is possible. By counting back from the current generation of Starks, it might be possible to shorten the window a bit, but at the moment I do not have the time to take a look Or I am currently not thinking of something, @The Wondering Wolf? (Doing this count from the top of my head, with limited time). So yes, it would certainly have been possible. But how likely it is, I cannot say. Aerion was rather young when he was temporarily exiled, and if we assume he served with the company during his exile, there are only a few years possible for that to have happened. Without knowing more about Rodrik (when he was born, when he went to Essos, when he returned), we cannot possibly say anything more.
  14. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Small Questions v. 10105

    1. They pass on their names. Doran and Oberyn's mother ruled Dorne in her own right, and despite the fact that she had been married at some point, she passed on her name to her children. We also see it with Lady Larra Blackmont, who rules Blackmont. Her children have her last name, and her eldest child, a daughter, is set to inherit Blackmont after her. 2. Regarding inheritance (and thus, giving up your claim), Martin has said the following: The short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history... which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpretations, and often contradictory A Lord can, if he really wants to, name one of his younger children as his heir (if we can believe Walder Frey, who threatens to do so with nobody disputing that it was possible). And with Samwell Tarly, we see how Lord Randyll forced his son to give up his claim. But even he felt it was only safe to do so by having Samwell take vows that would 1) prevent him from ever pressing his claim anyway, and 2) prevent Samwell from fathering heirs who could possibly stake their claim over his lands. In the case of a lord, the closest thing I can think of is Lancel Lannister renouncing his claim to his seat, Darry. Lancel did not have any children of his own, and the idea was put forward to marry his younger brother to his wife (who he was renouncing as well) instead, so still to claim Darry. We also have the somewhat related example of Arianne Martell's plan for taking over Dorne. She wishes to take her seat prior to Doran's death, and let Doran live out his life in the Water Gardens. But neither come close to what you ask about. Talking about your specific examples, if a lord leaves his seat long enough, leaving his heirs to rule in his stead during his absence, his heirs might just as well consolidate their own power and eventually take over, if they know their lord is not coming back. Running off across the narrow sea can be seen as self chosen exile, for example, so another possibility is having the heir petition to his/her overlord or king to officially inherit the seat. 3.They were, but their last name has nothing to do with that Daemon Blackfyre did not take a new name because he was legitimized. When he was legitimized, he had already been called Blackfyre for two years. Such surnames as Waters, Snow, Rivers etc indicate their bastard ancestry. The names holds a stigma, a "taint", but nonetheless, according to Martin most legitimized bastards decide to keep their bastard surname. Due to the taint that accompanies the name, their descendants might change the surname (for example, House Longwaters). So while the legitimized children of Aegon IV could have changed their surnames if they had wanted to, they decided not to. We can only speculate as to why.
  15. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Small Questions v. 10105

    It is, certainly. However, in most families* siblings are rather loyal to each other. And this is also where the prejudice against bastards comes in. They are said to be "wanton and treacherous by nature". Not to be trusted. And, by extent, neither are their children. The Frey's are a good examples of instances where this is not the case: Lothar was a very amusing fellow to get drunk with, but Merrett would never be so foolish as to turn his back on him. In the Twins, you learned early that only full blood siblings could be trusted, and them not very far. (ASOS,, Epilogue)
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