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Rhaenys_Targaryen

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  1. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    @Ran, Question for the errata of TWOIAF. There are several quotes placing the destruction of the Rhoynar/flight of Nymeria and her people and their arrival in Dorne/ the Rhoynish Wars "a thousand years ago". "That was the Rhoynar name," said Haldon Halfmaester, "but for a thousand years this has been the Palace of Sorrow." (ADWD Tyrion 5) This series of conflicts reached a bloody climax a thousand years ago in the Second Spice War, when three Valyrian dragonlords joined with their kin and cousins in Volantis to overwhelm, sack, and destroy Sarhoy, the great Rhoynar port city upon the Summer Sea. (TWOIAF: Ancient History: Ten Thousand Ships) Separate as they have been—and then a thousand years ago joined with the Rhoynar—the Dornish have their own proud, fraught history and their own ways. (TWOIAF: Dorne: Queer Customs of the South) However, in TWOIAF, at the end of the chapter describing the arrival of the Rhoynar in Dorne, and the start of the rule of House Martell over Dorne, we get this: House Martell has guided Dorne for seven hundred years, raising its great towers at Sunspear, seeing the shadow city and the Planky Town rise, and defeating all those who threatened its dominion. (TWOIAF, Dorne: The Coming of the Rhoynar) The inconsistency seems to be 300 years here. Although the phrase "a thousand years ago" is often used to generalize, the proclamation that a series of wars that lasted ~2,5 centuries climaxed a thousand years ago appears quite precise. This would, however, mean that the phrase in "The Coming of the Rhoynar" is incorrect. My question is, what is correct? Does this phrase mistakenly state 700 years while it was supposed to be 1000? Is the use of "a thousand years" in this case too a generlization? (meaning that the Rhoynar city-states fell 700 years ago, only ~300 years before the Doom?). Or, does this phrase reflect the status of the rule of House Martell as it was shortly before Aegon's Landing and subsequent Conquest? The reason I wonder about this is that this phrase is used to end the section of how House Martell came to rule and is followed by a section ("Queer Customs of the South") discussing the Rhoynish and Dornish customs, not a particular part of Dornish history, with the next section ("Dorne Against the Dragons") starts off with Aegon's Conquest, 300 years before the presence. And those 300 years added to the 700 years from the earlier section fit neatly with the "thousand years" given earlier. So is "a thousand years" in this context a general phrasing, or does it point to a specific time period of actually ~1000 years?
  2. Before she became a Queen by the rights of conquest or acquired dragons, she had only one suitor. So not everyone was after 'Daenerys's womb' One thing first: Drogo did not marry Daenerys to fulfil a prophecy. At least, we have been given no information that suggests this. Drogo married Dany and presented her to the Dosh Khaleen (a Dothraki custom). At Vaes Dothrak, the Dosh Khaleen proclaimed their child to fulfil a prophecy, associating them to the prophecy for the first time. As to Viserys. He was an exiled king who had never sat upon his throne. (And unlike the case of Aegon the Younger, Viserys's house no longer held the throne). In the meantime, the man who actually did sit upon that throne had a secure rule, was supported by many, and held a realm at peace. As far as one could see, the Westerosi were not interested in restoring the Tararyens to the throne. That would not make Viserys appealing for any Essosi.
  3. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Small Questions v. 10105

    Due to the use of the word "some", given its definitions, I always read Baelish's statement to mean "about fourteen years", a statement which would be correct even if the exact amount of time is fifteen years.
  4. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    I tried this. The images on the Sandbox page and Template:Infobox/test respond very well. Can this css information simply be copied (by a person authorized to edit such pages) into the common.css of the entire wiki?
  5. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Small Questions v. 10105

    The castle wasn't passed on through inheritance, but by royal decree. The Throne (the Lannisters) seized it, and wanted to give it to one of their own. But in order to make Lancel's claim stronger, to make the people of Darry more accepting of him, they (or better said, Kevan) married him to someone who has a claim to the castle through her heritage. Lancel explains it himself: A gloomy look passed across the young knight’s ravaged face. “A Frey girl, and not of my choosing. She is not even maiden. A widow, of Darry blood. My father says that will help me with the peasants, but the peasants are all dead.” He reached for her hand. “It is cruel, Cersei. Your Grace knows that I love—” (AFFC, Cersei 2) And Jaime later explains it further: As he waited for a response from the castle, Jaime eyed the banner floating brown and crimson above his cousin’s barbican. Lancel had taken to quartering the lion of Lannister with the Darry plowman, it would seem. He saw his uncle’s hand in that, as in Lancel’s choice of bride. House Darry had ruled these lands since the Andals cast down the First Men. No doubt Ser Kevan realized that his son would have an easier time of it if the peasants saw him as a continuation of the old line, holding these lands by right of marriage rather than royal decree. Kevan should be Tommen’s Hand. Harys Swyft is a toad, and my sister is a fool if she thinks elsewise. The castle gates swung open slowly. (AFFC, Jaime 4)
  6. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Ashara, post Harrenhal possibilities

    I don't think it would necessarily be changing loyalties. Is informing the king of actual plots against him "feeding paranoia"? I know that Barristan says that the rot in Aerys's reign began with Varys, but Yandel's account shows us that Aerys had begun to spiral before Varys ever set foot on Westerosi soil. And we know what kind of potential "traitors" Varys points out to those in power. Varys covered his mouth with his hand. "You are very cruel to say so. One last matter. Lady Tanda gave a small supper last night. I have the menu and the guest list for your inspection. When the wine was poured, Lord Gyles rose to lift a cup to the king, and Ser Balon Swann was heard to remark, 'We'll need three cups for that.' Many laughed . . ." Tyrion raised a hand. "Enough. Ser Balon made a jest. I am not interested in treasonous table talk, Lord Varys." Tyrion was clever enough not to act on such news. Aerys would have had the man arrested. And worse. And we know that this kind of information was among the stuff reported to Aerys by Varys: His Grace's growing madness had become unmistakable by that time. From Dorne to the Wall, men had begun to refer to Aerys II as the Mad King. In King's Landing, he was called King Scab, for the many times he had cut himself upon the Iron Throne. Yet with Varys the Spider and his whisperers listening, it had become very dangerous to voice any of these sentiments aloud. Varys's power - in Westeros - did originate with Aerys, that is completely true. But that doesn't mean that Varys informing the king of Rhaegar's plot was an attempt to grow even more powerful and rich. I think the fact that Varys in 281 AC did exactly what he was hired to do - that is, informing the king of the plotting going on against him - is sometimes neglected. Rhaegar, we have reason to believe, was plotting against his father, That Varys, should he discover clues to this plot, would reported it to the king, should not have been a surprise to Rhaegar. Which is also part of the reason as to why I find Barristan's claim (as reported by Stannis) so interesting, and I certainly hope we will learn much and more about Aerys's court during the final years of his reign. Because it might give us an answer to the question of what the relationship between Varys and Rhaegar was. You and me both! One question that arises if Rhaegar and Elia tasked Ashara with keeping Aegon safe, and Varys joining in the plan only after both Rhaegar and Elia had died, is this: Why would Ashara (Lemore) agree to lie to Aegon about how the plot went down? Why let the child believe that it was Varys who had rescued him? Which brings us to the question: When did Ashara conceive? When did she give birth? Did she conceive during Harrenhal, when she "turned to Stark"? Or, when she was "dishonored" at the same tourney? Or, did she become pregnant only later, and give birth not in mid-282 AC, but closer to late 283/early 284 AC, considering Barristan tells us she committed suicide "shortly after" her daughter had been stillborn? What time period does Barristan consider to be short? Harrenhal might very well have been the place where she conceived a child, although that would most likely contradict Barristan's assessment (or, the time period of slightly more than a year is considered a short time period in his mind, in which case, no issue is present). Or not, if indeed her suicide quickly followed the birth of her daughter. All a long way of saying that she uncertainty there is (to us readers) about when Ashara was pregnant. Because even if she had given birth around the time of Jon's birth, according to Barristan, Ashara gave birth to a daughter. (Do we have any reason do doubt that information?) Knowing that she had given birth to a girl, why would the Starfall garrison believe she had given birth to a son instead? It would also, I suppose, entirely depend on where she gave birth. However, I consider Starfall to be the most likely location at the moment.
  7. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    Would you happen to have any idea what needs to be changed in the CSS?
  8. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Ashara, post Harrenhal possibilities

    Ah yes, that's right! Thanks!
  9. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    Cool! I had previously created that "days left in the year" template, as to allow for more than 30 featured articles to show on the main page. It was the only way I could manage to achieve the result I wanted, but this is of course way better! So thank you very much! You seem to know a great deal about templates and their coding, and despite my attempts to learn, my knowledge on them is still rather small. So I've posted a question regarding a new issue I found on your talk page on the wiki. I hope you don't mind!
  10. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Ashara, post Harrenhal possibilities

    Is that the rule for each tourney? Or is that one of the rules the organizer can decide himself?
  11. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Ashara, post Harrenhal possibilities

    Regarding Varys fanning Aerys's paranoia, if Yandel tells it true (and thanks to Jaime we have reason to believe he does), Rhaegar was actually plotting against the reign of his father (although we do not know what exactly Rhaegar had in mind). And while Rhaegar probably believed his plan were what was best, by informing Aerys that there was a plot going to happen at Harrenhal if he were to stay away, Varys was demonstrating loyalty to his king (whether true or faked). Elia's marriage to Rhaegar is one of the things I hope we will learn more about in the next two novels. Rhaegar did not love her, but was "fond" of her, according to Barristan. Their marriage was "complicated", according to GRRM. And indeed, we have seen Rhaegar confide in his wife concerning a prophecy and how it connects to their newborn son. So how much did Elia know, and how much did she agree with? If she did indeed know what Rhaegar was doing, but if she agreed with his plans, how come Doran - out of anger of Rhaegar's treatment of Elia - refused to send Dornish forces until Aerys began to threaten the lives of Elia and her children? I would expect Elia to have explained Doran what he needed to know in order to agree to send forces to KL, if indeed she had been in the know of it all. And perhaps she tried and we will learn that Doran refused to listen/remained angry at Rhaegar/did not believe her. Perhaps. But until we have something pointing in the direction of that having happened, I'm going to assume that it didn't. And I agree, Rhaegar would certainly have had reason to care for his children. If Ned had taken ship at Starfall, back to his troops at Storm's End (if that is indeed where he left them behind), the sailors on the ship could have spread the gossip easily. We see in the novels how much they spread stories. Ned's soldiers eventually brought the story north, where it was spread further. Additionally, it would explain how the story spread throughout the rest of Westeros (far enough for Cersei to hear about it). Storm's End still had its own garrison, and who knows who from the Reach was still present. That said, we also learn that the smallfolk love to gossip about their lords. When it comes down to it, everyone could have spread the news But the people who possibly brought Ned from Starfall to Storm's End or King's Landing are a good possibility. If Rhaegar and Elia had send Ashara away with Aegon to ensure Aegon's safety, she could have gone to other places than a tower where Rhaegar's third child was about to be born. Rhaegar's own seat comes to mind (neither Rhaella nor Viserys were there already, if Rhaegar had send Ashara on her way before his death at the Trident). Safely away from Aerys, Safely away from Doran and Oberyn (if Oberyn was even in Westeros at the time). Safely away from the rebels. And safely at Rhaegar's own seat. Just a possibility Hope you have a good night of sleep! (actually, several since your post, I hadn't been able to respond earlier).
  12. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Ashara, post Harrenhal possibilities

    An interesting idea, that a swap of Aegon with the Pisswater Prince might have originated with someone other than Varys! But I have to ask, would it be so unlikely that Elia turned to Varys in the circumstances she was in as the Lannister army approached the gates? Considering the possibility that she would have accepted help from Varys to ensure the safety of her son (perhaps in the belief that Rhaenys, as a girl, would be taken hostage by the enemy instead of being killed), I am reminded by this statement of Cersei in Clash: "[Varys] serves me well." "Or so he'd have you believe. You think you're the only one he whispers secrets to? He gives each of us just enough to convince us that we'd be helpless without him. He played the same game with me, when I first wed Robert. For years, I was convinced I had no truer friend at court, but now . . ." She studied his face for a moment. "He says you mean to take the Hound from Joffrey." Elia had been left behind by Rhaegar, who had stolen/kidnapped/run off with another woman, and her father-in-law had taken her and her children hostage. With the safety of her children on her mind, would it be so unlikely that she'd put her faith in a person who offered her a solution, or partial solution, to one of her problems? Would the only way for Ned and Howland to cross the Prince's Pass be in the company of Ashara? Perhaps she believes it incorrectly (an incorrect rumour or a story changed in the numerous times it was told and retold - that could certainly happen). But according to Catelyn, who heard it from her maids (who heard it from Ned's soldiers), Ashara was already at Starfall when Ned set out to bring home Dawn. They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys's Kingsguard, and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat. And they told how afterward Ned had carried Ser Arthur's sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called Starfall on the shores of the Summer Sea. The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes. (AGOT, Catelyn 2) While the explanation of Wylla's presence in the party traveling to Starfall nicely explains why Starfall would believe she is Jon's mother, Ashara's presence is not necessary for this. (Although it leaves the question of why would she remain behind at Starfall, while her supposed child went north with Ned?). In fact, why would Ashara hide with Aegon in the ToJ, instead of at Starfall? If she had left KL with Aegon because Rhaegar and Elia had asked her to do so, wouldn't it be logical for her to travel to a location other than Rhaegar's third child? Similar to how, during the Dance of the Dragons, the hidden heirs were split to create a higher chance that at least one of them would survive? It was Lord Larys who decreed the fugitives should part company as well, so that even if one were taken, the others might win free. Ser Rickard Thorne was commanded to deliver two-year-old Prince Maelor to Lord Hightower. Princess Jaehaera, a sweet and simple girl of six, was put in the charge of Ser Willis Fell, who swore to bring her safely to Storm’s End. Neither knew where the other was bound, so neither could betray the other if captured. And only Larys himself knew that the king, stripped of his finery and clad in a salt-stained fisherman’s cloak, had been concealed amongst a load of codfish on a fishing skiff in the care of a bastard knight with kin on Dragonstone. (TPATQ)
  13. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Small Questions v. 10105

    @zionius, is there a difference in those editions of ASOS between Arya's recollection of the sword's name? For what it is worth, my 2011 edition of Clash (Bantam) has Sansa stating "Lion's Tooth" in ACOK. That website is not an official asoiaf-website, and as such contains several other errors which have since publication been corrected (but which still feature in numerous earlier editions).
  14. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    Small Questions v. 10105

    The Lands of Ice and Fire are the official maps. But when the text contradicts what the maps show, the text wins, of course. Of course, an absence of a mentioning in text does not necessarily mean that the information from the maps is wrong Differences have been observed before between prints and kindle versions. Do you have a UK print (Harper Voyager)? Or US (Bantam)? And could you perhaps check which print you have?
  15. Rhaenys_Targaryen

    The Book of Swords - The Sons of the Dragon SPOILERS

    Cool, thanks for confirming!
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