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Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Everything posted by Rhaenys_Targaryen

  1. Indeed, there are some months that pass between the turning of the new year (135 AC) and the statement of Floris having "recently" died. But what limits "recently"? A month? Half a year? We cannot use the phrase to determine how long Floris has been dead but this point. He could certainly still be mourning the loss of his young wife, as well as his child. He was considered a "doting husband", so it would not be surprising if he had truly cared about Floris as a spouse, instead of seeing her only as a politically gained price.. So, with the uncertainty considering the "recently" statement, I think we should follow the "two years later" reference, as that one presents a clear date that still fits with the other one.
  2. (I have not checked the years for all of the above, but) that approach sounds logical to me, yes
  3. According to Martin's writing, we can assume that highborn girls have their first period at an age of twelve or thirteen, on average: Sansa could not look at him, he shamed her so. "Septa Mordane says most … most highborn girls have their flowering at twelve or thirteen." (AGOT, Sansa VI) He also states that As in the real Middle Ages, highborn girls tend to flower significantly earlier than those of lower birth. Probably a matter of nutrition. As a result, they also tend to marry earlier, and to bear children earlier. You make an interesting point. Using all that was stated in text, she would indeed be between 13 and 26 years old. However, for a girl who has not yet had her first period, being maximally 26 seems a bit at odds. Of course, we have a minimum age for girls who have had their first 'flowering', in accordance with the quote above. But, that does not automatically mean that all 12/13 year old highborn girls in Westeros have had their first period by that age. In addition, although the age of majority in Westeros is 16, that does not mean that every girl has had her first period by that age. If we can find a good scientific source, we can attach a (give or take) maximum age to a girl getting her first period. ScienceDirect shows part of a book (Environmental Exposures and Women's Reproductive Health) which contains these two pasages: Menarche symbolizes the onset of sexual maturity and is characterized by the onset of the first menstrual bleeding. The average age at menarche is 13.8 years; however, it ranges from 9 to 18 years and varies by race and ethnicity [1]. The median age at menarche for European girls ranges from 12.6 years (Italy and Greece) to 15.2 years (Russia). The median age for North American girls varies from 12.5 years (U.S. blacks) to 13.8 years (U.S. Eskimos), the median age for Asian girls ranges from 12.7 years (Singapore) to 18.1 years (Nepal), and the median age for African girls varies from 13.2 to 17.0 years (Rwanda) [1]. [...] European studies indicate that age of menarche has declined from 17 years in 1840 to about 13 years in 1970 [1,40]. North American studies show that the age at menarche declined from about 15 years in 1890 to approximately 13 years in 1920 [1,41]. However, as the book is not available online, I cannot check which sources are being used here. Nonetheless, 18 could be a valid maximum age for menarche with ScienceDirect as a reference. That would mean that in 129 AC, Cassandra was at most 18 years old, which would place her birth between 111 AC and 116 AC. (And subsequently Maris's birth between 112 AC and 117 AC)
  4. I have been trying to respond all week but it is been busy, and my draft post was deleted. Just to let you know, I will respond to you in detail this weekend!
  5. Agreed! Good observation! Likely, but we cannot be certain yet, as it has not yet been confirmed when She-Wolves takes place exactly, or how long Beron lingered. While Aegon was eventually summoned to KL, that does not mean he could not have traveled back north afterwards, as @Thomaerys Velaryon pointed out. I agree that the two sections you quote limit Dagon's reaving to Aerys's reign. But, from those quotes we cannot deduce when Beron was attacked, or howlpng he was on his death bed. While I agree with you that he likely died not long after getting hurt, we do not have any data to rule out anything else, and so we must use, in my opinion, the dates we have of the lords that came after him.
  6. Nowhere is it stated that all squires are eight years old. Squires are at least eight years old, but could be older. Eight is the minimum age here. We have no clue when Arthur met Rhaegar, or when he came to King's Landing for the first time. He has been Rhaegar's friend for longer than Jon Connington was, but we don't know when Jon befriended Rhaegar either. No one is saying Arthur was 16 years old in 276 AC. He was at least 16, if not older. He was a Kingsguard knight by then, which means he had at least turned 16, as Jaime would later be the youngest knight to become a Kingsguard ever at the age of 15. So, while Arthur was at least 16 at the time, he could easily have been several years older. And we have absolutely no way of telling how many years that could possibly be. As such, we can say he was born no later than 260 AC, but that does not mean that he could not have been born any earlier. Only that he could not have been born after 260 AC.
  7. Apologies it took me a while to respond. My daily schedule has not permitted me with much time to check in, and I wanted to research a bit before responding. You are absolutely correct. We do no know when Rhaegar and Arthur met, and whether it was before Arthur became a KG knight. What I can find now, is that 276 AC (tournament in honor of Viserys's birth late in the year), is the first mention of Arthur as a knight of the Kingsguard (TWOIAF, Aerys II). Meaning that Arthur was at least 16 that year, and thus, had been born no later than 260 AC. I don't belief we have anything more to pinpoint it any further. If you know anything more, please share! And as always, thank you for your comments! As my user name might suggest, it's her, please Discussions are always nice, as everyone, including me, can make mistakes in the calculations, and I always appreciate it when someone manages to catch one so it can be corrected!
  8. Both had multiple heirs, and especially Viserys II would still have the memory of the Dance of the Dragons fresh in the back of his mind, where struggle between the King's child by his first wife and his children by his second wife caused a devastation across the land.
  9. Gwayne Hightower is currently stated to have been younger than Alicent Hightower, referring to TRP, but in both TRP and Fire and Blood I can only find the statement that Gwayne was Alicent's "youngest brother". That does not necessarily mean that Gwayne was younger than Alicent, only that of all of her brothers, he was the youngest. That could still mean he was older than her. Does anyone know of any other quote regarding Gwayne?
  10. Paper currency has thus far not been described. We have seen examples of people signing contracts promising money to be paid at a later point in time (eg Tyrion for the Second Sons). The method the Brotherhood without Banners uses, shows that the smallfolk have no use for such promises on paper, though. Assuming the smallfolk of Essos feel the same way, if the Iron Bank does not pay out in actual coins, the client will still not be able to use it. Perhaps, where the loan concerns a really large amount, the Iron Bank does not pay everything out at once. Possibly, we'll learn more about it in Winds
  11. I don't see any potential issue depicted for Brandon. For Jonnel Stark, the texts accurately depicts the order of his marriage: Lord Jonnel Stark, known as One-Eye, married first to his half-niece Lady Sansa Stark and second to Lady Robyn Ryswell. If this is not the text you see, try clearing your cache. Arrana and Aregelle are depicted correctly. Arrana was the elder of the two. Sansa and Serena are also depicted correctly, as it has been confirmed that the order as presented in the book is incorrect compared to Martin's notes for the tree. Sansa was the elder of the two. Can you let me know if clearing your cache worked?
  12. I'm not sure that we can take the absence of Vaegon being mentioned or considered as a confirmation that he had died previously. He had been ruled out on account of his vows during the Great Council, and that fact had not changed.
  13. @Lord Corlys Velaryon, @The Wondering Wolf and @Thomaerys Velaryon, thank you for the suggestions! I used the maximum age of a woman's fertile stage to somewhat decrease the possible years of birth for Lyarra. Luckily most are not that broad by far hahaha :p
  14. It was never confirmed who it was, no (except that it was not Criston Cole or Alicent Hightower).
  15. For Saera, I interpret the text as possibly including her (but I'm not a native speaker, so perhaps I am wrong). For Daemon, not so much. TWOIAF states only that there were 9 lesser claiments, and 2 finalists: At this council, nine lesser claimants were heard and dismissed, leaving only two primary claimants to the throne: Laenor Velaryon, son of Princess Rhaenys—who was the eldest daughter of Jaehaerys's eldest son, Aemon—and Prince Viserys, eldest son of Baelon the Brave and Princess Alyssa. Fire and Blood provides more info, and states as follows: No fewer than fourteen claims were duly examined and considered by the lords assembled. From Essos came three rival competitors, grandsons of King Jaehaerys through his daughter Saera, each sired by a different father. One was said to be the very image of his grandsire in his youth. Another, a bastard born to a triarch of old Volantis, arrived with bags of gold and a dwarf elephant. The lavish gifts he distributed amongst the poorer lords undoubtedly helped his claim. The elephant proved less useful. (Princess Saera herself was still alive and well in Volantis, and only thirty-four years of age; her own claim was clearly superior to those of any of her bastard sons, but she did not choose to press it. "I have my own kingdom here," she said, when asked if she meant to return to Westeros.) Another contestant produced sheafs of parchment that demonstrated his descent from Gaemon the Glorious, the greatest of the Targaryen Lords of Dragonstone before the Conquest, by way of a younger daughter and the lord she had married, and on for seven further generations. There was as well a strapping red-haired man-at-arms who claimed to be a bastard son of Maegor the Cruel. By way of proof he brought his mother, an aged innkeep’s daughter who said that she had once been raped by Maegor. (The lords were prepared to believe the fact of rape, but not that the act had gotten her with child.) The lords "examined and considered" fourteen claims. That does not necessarily mean that fourteen claims were presented. They were discusses. The paragraph identified Saera's three bastard sons, a descendant of Gaemon the Glorious, and a "bastard of Maegor". That's five. The Great Council deliberated for thirteen days. The tenuous claims of nine lesser competitors were considered and discarded (one such, a hedge knight who put himself forward as a natural son of King Jaehaerys himself, was seized and imprisoned when the king exposed him as a liar). Archmaester Vaegon was ruled out on account of his vows and Princess Rhaenys and her daughter on account of their sex, leaving the two claimants with the most support: Viserys Targaryen, eldest son of Prince Baelon and Princess Alyssa, and Laenor Velaryon, the son of Princess Rhaenys and grandson of Prince Aemon. Viserys was the Old King's grandson, Laenor his great-grandson. The principle of primogeniture favored Laenor, the principle of proximity Viserys. Viserys had also been the last Targaryen to ride Balerion ... though after the death of the Black Dread in 94 AC he never mounted another dragon, whereas the boy Laenor had yet to take his first flight upon his young dragon, a splendid grey-and-white beast he named Seasmoke. The following paragraph tells us that a hedge knight , Archmaester Vaegon, Rhaenys, Laena, Laenor, and Viserys were further discussed. That is the two "finalists" and four other, 'lesser' claims. Nine lesser claims in total, leaving four unaccounted for. However, the text does state that Saera's claim was 'clearly superior' to those of her three sons. The text states that she choose not to press her claim, but that does not mean her claim could not have been discussed, as the only parent of royal blood of three of the claimants. The text is vague, IMHO, about whether or not she was included in the count. At most, I think, we can include a sentence stating that it is unclear from Gyldan's account if Saera's own claim was discussed by the lords or not. But no part of the text suggests that Daemon's claim was ever considered, especially not since he was a younger brother, and according to the laws of inheritance, the elder brother is customarily the first to inherit.
  16. The guideline for the wiki states that information should be provided objectively. Which means no theories or other speculation. Which you know
  17. It's official. Impatient and insulting people without reason. I don't visit the forum as frequently as I once used to. So don't take not receiving a response for some days as an insult. There is no reason for it, after all Usually, threads are closed after about 20 pages for length, but there are some exceptions. Those exceptions are made by the moderators. So should a moderator decide that a new version of this thread should be started, we will likely see a message here, or the thread will simply be closed. Either way, it is not my decision to make. (Nor does a threads length impact the search function of the forum, by the way )
  18. Alicent was 'half again' Rhaenyra's age, in 117 AC. Perhaps that it what you are thinking about?
  19. As his new Hand, he called upon Ser Otto Hightower, younger brother to Lord Hightower of Oldtown. Ser Otto brought his wife and children to court with him, and served King Jaehaerys faithfully for the years remaining to him. As the Old King's strength and wits began to fail, he was oft confined to his bed. Ser Otto's precocious fifteen-year-old daughter, Alicent, became his constant companion, fetching His Grace his meals, reading to him, helping him to bathe and dress himself. The Old King sometimes mistook her for one of his daughters, calling her by their names; near the end, he grew certain she was his daughter Saera, returned to him from beyond the narrow sea. Actually, the text only specifies that Alicent, at the age of fifteen, became Jaehaerys's companion as his strength and wits began to fail him. The text does not specify that this happened in 101 AC, when Otto arrived in KL with his family. Do you have the link for where this was said?
  20. Because Westerosi history recognizes it as the reign of Aegon II, with Rhaenyra as a rival claimant. The wiki here follows the list of monarchs in the AGOT appendix and the World of Ice and Fire.
  21. The Brandon Stark page does not show up on the overview at all, while for the page on the Dragonpit, only one of few edits is shown. The edits are all being saved, though, but this does suggest that something is not working as it should.
  22. @Ran, noticed a strange thing on the wiki today. Not all edits are being displayed on the page of Recent Changes, so something seems to be going wrong there.
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