Jump to content

SFDanny

Members
  • Content count

    3,867
  • Joined

  • Last visited

5 Followers

About SFDanny

  • Rank
    Council Member

Profile Information

  • Location
    San Francisco

Recent Profile Visitors

9,667 profile views
  1. SFDanny

    Poll: Is Lemore Actually Ashara?

    I've only really answered "yes" to this poll, but instead of going on a long rant about why I think this is true, let me just add a link to a thread I started last year about my speculation concerning Ashara. It's called "Ashara, post Harrenhal possibilities" and is meant to be fun. I hope any readers find it so.
  2. SFDanny

    R+L=J v.166

    corbon, thanks for the kind words - the respect is definitely mutual - and I will try to respond as quickly as I can. I probably won't go over every point in our discussion, but will try to deal with what I see as the most important points. I have to respond to a few others as well, so until then thanks for taking the time to go over these questions with me. Danny
  3. SFDanny

    R+L=J v.166

    Forgive me, @Frey family reunion, but I obviously got caught up in a discussion with others and failed to get back to a response I owed you. You see, I don't see it as vague at all. We have a context this conflict is set in that eliminates any vagueness on Martin's part. The world which Martin has constructed has a very rigid class structure, so unless we are talking about a time of open rebellion against the Martells - and we are not - the "Dornishmen" who make the decisions for Dorne are the Prince Doran, and his representatives. Whatever are the sentiments of the common soldiers, or even their commanders, about Rhaegar's treatment of Elia it is Doran Martell's sentiments and decisions that tell those troops what to do. When we find out that there are 10,000 Dornishmen assembled on the Boneway, we can be sure that they haven't entered the effort to crush the Rebellion yet because of Doran's orders and not because they troops are pissed off about Rhaegar. We also can be sure that when Prince Lewyn brings his message to Doran reminding him that Aerys held Elia and her children that the threat was made to the Prince of Dorne, not to the common soldiers. And finally, we can be sure it is Doran that issues the command to Lewyn and his commanders in the field that they are to follow Prince Lewyn north to join up with Rhaegar's army to fight the rebels. So, no, no vagueness here. Which doesn't mean every Dornishman or woman doesn't have an opinion on all of the political events of the day and what should be done about it. It just means they follow their ruling prince and no one else. There is a time in which we know Oberyn is trying to raise new troops to continue the fight against the rebels, but even then we don't know that Doran opposed those efforts. We just know that Jon Arryn travels to Sunspear and a peace of sorts is worked out. That is after Elia and her children are brutally murdered and their bodies displayed as trophies of war before the new rebel king.These are very different circumstances and we might think Doran's peace might not be wanted among all Dornishmen, but they follow his orders even then. In the time Martin is talking about, there isn't even a hint that Dornishmen would rise against their prince. As to why the Martells would act as they did, well, I think I've already answered that. They have political goals and interests as well as family loyalties to their sister that make them hold back from committing their troops until Lewyn brings his letter. These goals, interests, and loyalties explain their actions as does Martin's note about Prince Doran's "innate caution." We will have to disagree on what would have been the better place to hide Lyanna. I'm guided in my assessment by Ned's thoughts on keeping secrets. The secret of where Lyanna was hidden away is something that Rhaegar had to keep to a very close number of people. That is an assessment made having nothing to do with Rhaegar's motives in the matter other than who would continue to have control of Lyanna. Hiding her in a place with as many eyes and ears as Starfall is, quite simply, counter to all of that. That doesn't mean it couldn't be done. It just means, in my judgement, it would be idiotic to do so, and I don't view Rhaegar as an idiot. Nor do I think any of the Kingsguard would be so foolish as to counsel such a move. On top of which we have the evidence, which I find conclusive, that Lyanna dies at the Tower of Joy. We have nothing but a wild guess that ever places her in Starfall. What would be beyond idiotic would be to move a pregnant woman over a long journey through the Prince's Pass to Starfall. Given we have evidence, again conclusive in my judgement, that she was at the Tower of Joy it makes little to no sense to make her take such a journey unless it is to expose her to added danger and to induce an early labor. Even in your view of Rhaegar's motives, a forced march of a pregnant woman from Starfall to the Tower of Joy would seem to be contrary to what you think motivates him. One doesn't move a woman carrying the "Prince who was Promised" on such a long journey. What does make sense is to find a place hidden away from as many eyes as possible and has some way of being supplied and kept informed of vital news. An abandoned watch tower overlooking the Prince's Pass whose local lord or lady can keep a secret seems ideal to maintain this secret that needs to be hidden away from so many different factions of the rebellion. Rhaegar hasn't the military might to keep others from taking Lyanna by force. He has to rely on secrecy. That much seems evident, and Starfall as a hiding place is counter to those motives and to the ability to maintain the secret. I do not necessarily disagree with you that House Dayne would follow an order by Rhaegar. I think we have reason to think they would. What we know of Ser Arthur, Lady Ashara, and the reaction of the Daynes to Ned Stark's visit to Starfall all gives evidence of the House as Rhaegar partisans. But this says nothing about the people of the area or those who might travel through the castle for other reasons. But the question isn't whether of not the Daynes would take the risk if Rhaegar asked them to, but given the need for secrecy and Lyanna's safety why would he be so foolish as to ask. Now, I have to bring up one last topic here. The timing of Jon's conception. You know well Martin's remarks about the time difference between Jon's and Dany's namedays being "eight or nine months or thereabouts" between each other. You also know the oft quoted thoughts of Daenerys placing her birth some "nine moons" after the flight to Dragonstone. This puts Jon's birth likely someplace around the eighth or ninth month of 283 AC. The Battle of the Bells likely takes place in the twelfth month of 282 to early 283. We know Rhaegar leaves sometime after that battle to go north. My question is does Rhaegar even know Lyanna is pregnant until after he leaves? Much of your concerns over Lyanna's safety, or rather, the safety of the prophesied child, would seem premature if the Prince doesn't even know he leaves Lyanna pregnant until word is somehow gotten to King's Landing to inform him. This is a very long topic for discussion. Let me just say I view Rhaegar as motivated by more than one thing. Love for Lyanna, love of his children, his sense of duty to the prophecy, and his own ambition to replace his father and build his kingdom as he wants it. I think he is likely an honorable man, but we really don't know which of these factors rule his motivations at any given time. Could you show me any evidence of Dornish troops gathering in the Prince's Pass during this period. We know from Jaime that there are some 10,000 men gathered on the Boneway where they could join the siege of Storm's End or go north to King's Landing, but why would a Dornish army be gathered in the Prince's Pass to invade the Reach? Let me know if you find something, ok? I'm not saying there would not be people traveling the pass during this period, but you keep talking of armies being there and I don't think that is the case. As to Ned's travels to Starfall, yes, it covers his tracks. If he arrives in Dorne with a woman nursing Jon and saying she is Jon's mother. There is substantial reason for the people of Starfall or other parts of Dorne to accept this is the case. If he arrives in Starfall with Jon and a woman nursing the baby and the Lady Ashara then the people of Dorne are still likely to believe Wylla's claim she is the mother because to believe Ashara is the mother would mean that she was gone from view by anyone who would be witness to her pregnancy over the last nine months. So unless you are proposing that Ashara was at the Tower for those nine months, then we have a problem with the people of Starfall and Dorne believing she is the mother. And that is exactly what we see. Acceptance of the story of Wylla as Jon's mother in Starfall, and questions about Ashara being the mother of Jon from people who are relying on old tales and have no eyewitnesses. Perhaps Ashara is not nailed to the floor in Dorne and has traveled away from Starfall, but one would expect someone has witnessed her condition over the past nine months and who would testify to her being pregnant. Unless she spent those nine months hidden away with Lyanna somewhere where the people of Starfall could not tell if she was pregnant or not.
  4. SFDanny

    Poll: Is Lemore Actually Ashara?

    I would only point out here that because we only have a couple examples of Tyrion describing Septa Lemore and he rather markedly leaves out any description of her eyes, it does not follow that he never looked at her eyes. This is a trip of what? Months? At least more than one month I'd guess. I'd bet Tyrion knows full well what Lemore's eyes are like. That doesn't mean he knows what Lady Ashara's eyes looked liked some seventeen years before when she disappeared. Tyrion is a man of twenty-seven, or twenty-six, when he meets Septa Lemore. Which means he was all of perhaps ten years old when Ashara disappears. Given what we know of Tyrion's childhood it is almost impossible to believe he had a chance of meeting Lady Dayne to see her striking eyes or any other aspect of her beauty. I've no doubt Tyrion has memories of the rebellion and before, but Lady Ashara almost certainly isn't one of them. the best chance they had met would be in 276 in Lannisport at the tourney in honor of Viserys's birth. Which would make Tyrion only about three years old, if Lady Ashara happened to attend the event. We have no proof she did, but to think Tyrion would remember her amongst all of the visitors to the tourney would be hard to believe. So, no, I've no doubt Tyrion knows what Lemore's eyes look like, but I also highly doubt he has any memory or knowledge of what Ashara looked like to compare the two. It doesn't surprise me in the least he wouldn't make the connection. Which is how George gets away with not giving the reader the information to make the connection while seeing the scenes through Tyrion's point of view.
  5. Thank you for your patience, and the correction. You are a gentlewoman and a scholar with the patience of a saint.
  6. SFDanny

    R+L=J v.166

    Of course, that could be the response, but the point is that once Eddard tells Robert Wylla's name he has to know that Wylla will say what he tells the king. They have to be in agreement or the consequences for Ned and Ned's family would likely be catastrophic. Ned can't play games with his answers. He has to tell the truth or have others back his lies. What Ned Dayne tells us shows Wylla is telling the same story Ned Stark is to Robert, or a the vary least allowing the same story of her being Jon's mother to be told without contradicting it. It's a pretty horrible cover story if both Eddard and Wylla aren't on the same page in the story they are telling.
  7. I'm confused. Is this about the last Theon chapter in ADwD or is it about spoiler chapters in TWoW? If it is the latter shouldn't this discussion be taking place in the proper forums for it?
  8. SFDanny

    R+L=J v.166

    Much of this is covered in The World of Ice & Fire.
  9. SFDanny

    R+L=J v.166

    My friend, I don't believe I am blinding myself with anything here, but I respect you saying why you think I'm wrong. Shall we go over this again? My remembrance is that you and I disagree on the first part here. Up to Ned giving Robert Wylla's name. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. Robert begins questions by making it clear he is asking about Ned's relationship with a common girl that was different than any other. He sets the parameters of the question as such, but he doesn't stop there. "And yet there was that one time ... what was her name, that common girl of yours? Then Robert makes it very clear what type of relationship Ned had with "that common girl of yours" by giving out names and saying, no with each name he gives, that those were names of Robert's common girls in which it is clearly implied he had relationships of a sexual nature. Speaking of a girl of "mine" with "sweet big eyes, you could drown in" is hardly a reference to a causal acquaintance. But Robert doesn't stop there. Robert also makes it clear he is searching for the name of a common girl Ned once had such a sexual relationship with, and that he told him about her once before. A very important piece of information. Robert says, "Yours was ... Aleena? No. You told me once? And then he goes on to narrow his inquiry down so there can be no mistaking whose name he his looking for when he says: To which Ned finally replies, "Her name was Wylla." (AGoT 122) bold emphasis added Here lies our first disagreement, I think. I believe Ned finally answers all of the questions Robert has asked, ending with one in which it is clear there is only one right answer, with the simple statement "Her name was Wylla." I also think that simple answer is a direct lie to his friend and his king. My understanding of your position here is that Ned doesn't lie.Not that he never lies, but in this exchange between he and Robert he merely responds to the series of questions with a name that could be a correct answer to one of the preliminary narrowing questions, and does not answer Robert's real question that is distilled into the "You know the one, I mean, your bastard's mother?" Am I correct is stating your position? Which then is the preliminary question that Ned has chosen to answer? That Ned knew a common woman once? Ned has undoubtably known hundreds, if not thousands of common women over the course of his life. If Ned is answering that question only with one name, then he is lying to Robert. If he answered with the all the names of the common women he has known, then that would be a truthful answer, but truncating an answer to make it seem he is answering truthfully to another question is just another way of lying. This isn't a game Robert and Ned are playing. As Robert so directly tells Arya, "It is a great crime to lie to a king" (AGoT 168.) Ned understands what Robert is asking, but he is forced to give up the name of Wylla. Why then did he choose that name of all the common women Ned has known? Is it because he knows that the answers Wylla will give if she is asked the same questions will be the same as Ned's answers? I think it is. But perhaps there is a shorter list that Ned could give the name of Wylla as an answer that would not be a lie? Perhaps a common woman that Ned knows that he loved, or lusted for, or even had sex with but who is not Jon's mother? Here we have little evidence beyond this declaration that Ned ever had such a relationship with a woman called Wylla, but we do get some more evidence two books later from Arya's conversation with young Ned Dayne, the Lord of Starfall. But first let's finish looking at Robert and Ned's conversation amongst the Barrows of the First Men. I've highlighted two sections that I think are important. First, when Robert tells us that Ned "never told me what she looked like" this tells us that Wylla and Robert have never met. Combined with "You told me once" tells us that, while Robert and Wylla have never met, he knows her name. This is critical to understanding this conversation. While Robert seems to not remember Wylla's name from the first time Ned tells him her name, it would be a severe mistake on Ned's part to take a chance and give the king a different name than the one he did the first time. Indeed, as I've raised before it could be a test on Robert's part to see if Ned is being consistent in his answers. We have hints that Ned's story has been checked out by other sources and it would be unwise for Ned's Wylla story to change from the first time he told Robert the tale. The end of the conversation I've highlighted above, we know that Robert accepts Ned's story of the timing in which Ned is supposed to have met Wylla. After Ned and Catelyn were married following the Battle of the Bells, and after Ned leaves Catelyn pregnant with his child Robb. About this too it is critically important for Ned to be consistent in his answers. It lets Ned hide behind a facade of shame in refusing to go any further in the Wylla story. You know the second disagreement, I'm sure. This centers on what I think is a non-issue and you seem to think is vitally important. Does Ned Dayne actually say that Wylla told him that she is Jon's mom? No, that is not part of the dialogue. What is part of the dialogue makes it clear that this is a fact what young lord Ned thinks is widely known and the strong likelihood is that he and Wylla have discussed it. By which we know that when young Lord Dayne was a child at the breast he was breastfed by a wet-nurse named Wylla, as was Jon Snow. Ned knows this how? Because it was common knowledge in his household which includes Wylla who has served there since before the young lord was born. But not only is common knowledge that Lord Dayne and Jon Snow are milk brothers, but also that Wylla is Jon's mother. That in this exchange it is not stated explicitly that Ned was told this fact by Wylla herself is unimportant. Ned knows this because it is a fact known to him as a member of House Dayne, and Wylla has served House Dayne since before he was born. As such it is likely he does learn this from Wylla herself or from another member of his House and Wylla never contradicts this fact throughout Ned's childhood. Either of which make it clear that this is an important part of Wylla's history known to House Dayne. There is no trickery here with what Ned tells Arya. There is simply a repeating of the fact we first learn from Ned Stark in his discussions with Robert among the Barrows of the First Men. It confirms that what Ned has told Robert will be the story the Daynes and Wylla tell if need be. That is the critical takeaway from this part of the conversation. That both what Ned Stark said to Robert, and what Wylla and the Daynes say about Jon's mother's identity match is the keystone for the reader. It also is likely a lie, or cover story if you'd rather, that both Ned Stark and House Dayne have agreed upon to tell anyone who asks. It doesn't matter that the story as told by Lord Edric doesn't include a direct quote from Wylla explicitly stating she claims to be Jon's mother. It matters that both Lord Stark and Lord Dayne say the same. I think then I've explained my views on what I see as our disagreements, my friend. Please correct me where you think I'm wrong. To some of your other points or questions Let me say again this is not just a casual conversation between old friends. Ned and Robert are old friends, nor were they when Ned answered this for the first time with Robert. This is also between king and subject. It is a very unwise thing to lie to your king. A very dangerous thing to do. Ned is not playing word games in order to get out of talking to his old friend Robert about a shameful topic. He is saying a name for which there are terrible possible consequences if Wylla does not back up what he says. There is no mistake about what Robert is asking. He says it point blank. Ned's answer better be the same as he said to Robert the first time, and the intelligence from Varys's spies, the Lannister's inquiries, or Stannis's report's of fishwife's sons better line up. This is why cover stories are invented and the affected parties all tell the same tale. Heads can be lost, as well has the wealth and prestige of Houses lasting thousands of years. So, no, you choose to go with a view of this that reduces it to word play, and that just doesn't work with the deadly background we have been given. This book isn't called the "Game of Thrones" for nothing. But before going on, what possibly within the exchange between Robert and Ned convinces you that this is the only interpretation one can have of this dialogue? As I've shown, there are a number of questions asked by Robert of Ned, all of which narrow the answer down to answering his last one, so why choose this one odd interpretation of the question Ned chose to answer? It's not to save Ned's honor because all of the answers but the answer "Lyanna" to the final question would be lies to Robert's questions, I'm convinced. There is no Wylla as Ned's lover in reality. Here let me just add that I think the semantic games you think Ned is playing with Robert is a serious misread of Ned's character. I look at Ned Stark and see a character that has been forced to choose, as Maester Aemon tells Jon, between love and honor. He chooses love. He also uses honor and shame to hide his choice, but he chooses love when he promises to his sister to take Jon on as his own son and lie to the rest of the world about it, especially his best friend the new king. Ned isn't worried about trying to find a way to give an answer to Robert's questions that could possibly pass some nonsense test of what is strictly true or not and thereby save his honor. He already made that choice long ago. His answer is a straight up lie, and one contrived with others in order to ensure that Robert never found out the truth. That Ned is lying to Robert should be of no surprise to anyone. He has already confessed in his private thoughts about the lies he has had to tell. That Ned lied to Robert is an established fact, even if we can't agree to the full extent of those lies or what the lies fully entailed. Ned is not playing games about what question he is answering. He is lying to cover up the lies he has already told. His answer to Robert is certainly a vitally important exception to this rule. It is the great thing about being a Hight Lord. You really don't have to answer any questions you don't want to with the one important exception being when those questions come from your king or his Hand. We have no evidence of Ned's answers to Jon Arryn, but to Robert he both lies and tries to stop the questioning. For the most part he is successful in hiding his lies. Again, he is the High Lord of the North, he doesn't have to answer anyone's questions at this point other than Robert's. The best way to keep a secret is not talk about it, which is mostly what Ned does, with the notable exception of Robert. True, but that only ones that matter in keeping the secret are the answers he has to give to Robert, and the answers he has to share with the Daynes. Once again, the best way to keep a secret is not to talk about it. With Robert that isn't an option. He has to answer the questions Robert asks him and his attempt to get Robert to stop asking more questions is successful when he pleads for Robert to stop. He uses his supposed shame as the excuse for his plea and it works. So much the better. We don't know the details Ned shared with Robert the first time he tells him Wylla's name, but the less time spent of the topic the better for hiding the lies. Read the last reply, and the following: Ned wants confusion about the subject and isn't about to clear it up by giving out new information to anyone he doesn't have to. He uses both his shame and his honor to stop discussion, but he isn't fool enough to believe there won't be discussion behind his back. Simply because the Starfall addition is an invention based on two things. First, Ned's supposed attraction to Ashara, and secondly to Ashara's disappearing after Ned leaves Starfall. Ned and Wylla's stories are the same. What people invent because of Ashara's supposed plunge into the sea is another. Just as it is in Winterfell among the returning soldiers and servants. I also think that Ned cannot play up what happened to Ashara for a number of reasons. Honoring Ashara's memory. Not wanting to do anything to upset the Daynes. Undermining his own story of Wylla with Robert. Robert may have a different memory of which Stark was involved with Ashara at Winterfell. And Ned may not be in the know about everything to do with Ashara's "death." We will have to agree to disagree on this I'm afraid. I see my explanations as entirely reasonable and consistent with what we know. I see your attempt to have Ned trying to play word games with Robert over Wylla's name as fairly unreasonable and inconsistent with what Ned tells us about himself. As you know, much of this we agree upon. We don't agree about Ned not answering Robert's question about Jon's mother's name with the name of Wylla, and we disagree about the importance of Ned Dayne not saying specifically to Arya that Wylla told him she was Jon's mother.
  10. SFDanny

    R+L=J v.166

    Of course not all evidence is equal, but we have evidence. It's hearsay evidence, and not known to be first hand to young Ned, but it is evidence. Lord Edric names her to be Jon's mother, and claims to have known her for years. Either he has it straight from Wylla herself (very likely) or someone in Starfall in position to guide the young lord has told him this tale (as a single source unlikely, but as a corroborating source very likely) and it isn't being controverted by any other source we know about. Name that weak if you will, but I would call it evidence. The question becomes is Ned Dayne lying? Or is he telling Arya the truth as he knows it? I read Edric as very credible, with no motive to lie. However, when we read Ned Stark's words to Robert naming Wylla as Jon's mom, I think that removes any doubt that if one shows up to the gates of Starfall and asks to talk to the mother of Ned Stark's bastard Jon Snow, if you are by chance allowed in, it would be Wylla that comes to greet you. As far as I know that is the sum total of evidence of any kind pointing to Wylla claiming to be Jon's mother. So, from Lord Eddard's own lips, It is very likely that on two occasions Ned Stark has given Robert Wylla's name as the name of Jon's mother. If Robert wants to check on his best friend's story, then it had better not turn out that some other woman's name is being said to be Jon's mom. That would call into question Ned's entire story of Lyanna, the Kingsguard, and who are Jon's parents.
  11. SFDanny

    R+L=J v.166

    I believe Martin is going to tie up the false leads about who is Jon's mom. That means letting us know about Ashara and Wylla in whatever role they play in Jon's origin story. I doubt they will play no role, although I'm convinced Lyanna is his mother. But concerning Wylla, I think she will tell us the beginnings of two false trails. I think she is almost certainly a wet nurse at the Tower of Joy, but I also think she is the Fisherman's Daughter that Davos finds out about from Lord Godric. My guess is that the Fisherman's Daughter's tale is a cover story for those who check back on Wylla's birth and childhood. It also gives a plausible way of Wylla getting to know Ned in the early days of the war. Someone he could therefore have met when he wasn't surrounded by troops and other rebel commanders. Wylla's name certainly could point to Dorne and Wyl, but in this case I think it points to the White Harbor region and Wylla Manderly. A Fisherman's Daughter who is named after the Local lord's family like we have seen done in many places, and somehow ends up in Dorne as a wet nurse waiting on the birth of Lyanna's child. A woman of the small folk who plays a pivotal role in hiding who Jon really is, and whose beginnings becomes of intense interest to those who doubt Ned Stark's story. Your's is simpler, and therefore maybe better, but I'm kinda tied to my guess.
  12. SFDanny

    R+L=J v.166

    @alienarea I have no doubt @corbon is right and Dawn is a fundamental part of House Dayne's identity. It is a sacred trust handed down through the generations of Daynes. But I would only add I think there is more going on here than its return, as important as that is. When Ned returns the sword Ashara is still alive. i believe Ashara had to have some connection to the hiding of Lyanna at the Tower of Joy and and possibly supplying it for months. Even if Ashara is not at the Tower when Lyanna dies and is not part of the "they" who find Ned holding her body, there is a likely connection to her brother as part of the conspiracy to hide Lady Stark and aid Rhaegar in his plans. As such, Ashara is one of the few people who knows the truth of what happened there. When the Daynes accept Dawn back, and accept Wylla into their household they participate in the cover up of who Jon really is. Conspiring to hide a child of Rhaegar, and possibly an heir of Rhaegar is treason to the new regime in King's Landing. So why are they so friendly to Ned? Because they know about Jon and make his hiding of who Jon is possible. It really doesn't work without their support. So, think of it like this. The king you support and whose family you have supported for over a hundred years, and whom your family has married into, dies is a civil war against people you have no real contact with, and at the very last of the bloodshed one of the leaders of the rebellion against your King and his family shows up on your doorstep not only with the ancestral sword that represents what your family is all about for thousands of years but he offers to give it back, and is willing to commit treason to his new king by hiding the Crown Prince's last remaining child from death, then what would you do? Obviously, they said yes to Ned, and helped Ned hide the secret of who Jon is. The simple reality is, I think, that the Daynes have taken into their home a woman who says she is the mother of Jon Snow, and at the same time they say Ashara committed suicide for the love of Ned, or maybe the loss of Jon, and we know Ned and his friends killed Ser Arthur. Something of larger nature than just getting Dawn back is behind their actions. They could have taken the sword and kicked Wylla out. They could have taken the sword and shown unending hatred for Ned Stark. The didn't do any of those things.
  13. SFDanny

    Small Questions v. 10106

    And have been!
  14. SFDanny

    Small Questions v. 10106

    The problem with Varys as a candidate for having told the rebels is that we would think it would come up in Ned's relationship with the Master of Whispers once Ned goes to King's Landing. Instead we see Lord Eddard start with an antipathy towards Varys. It's as if they had no previous history together. If Varys had handed this critical piece of information to Ned before he leaves to relieve the siege at Storm's End, I would think it would color Ned's thought about him. But @Rhaenys_Targaryen is right we don't know, and that includes not striking Varys of the list of possible sources for the information.
×