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SFDanny

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  1. SFDanny

    Jon Arryn's opinion of Lyanna

    I suspect he ended with the same opinion of Lyanna that I think Rickard, Brandon, and possibly Ned had. By which I mean somewhat angry that Lyanna would not willingly do her duty and marry Robert. Spending years constructing plots and alliances to further those plots must result in considerable frustration when the pawns won't move as you wish them to do and are told to do. I have no doubt you are right. Just as he would with Ned and Maester Cressen. I would love to know which one was the first to raise the possibility of marrying Lyanna? Or was it Robert himself? Did Lyanna ever visit the Vale and meet Robert before his proposal? Or was his passion borne of stories fed to him by Ned? I think a visit likely. Just as I think Cressen and Jon helped push young Robert in Lyanna's direction. This is a very "out of the box" choice. Robert should have married someone from his own bannermen's daughters. Or a daughter of Aerys if one was of age. I asked George about this time period from another perspective - from that of Ser Barristan's. But it relevant here. My question was about when Ser Barristan decides to accept Robert's offer to join and lead his Kingsguard. Specifically if it is before or after Selmy hears the news of his brothers deaths at the Tower of Joy? I'll let you judge if his response was helpful. I take it as most likely Robert, and the rest of King's Landing, hear the news of Lyanna's death and the deaths of Hightower, Dayne, and Whent from Ned when he returns and is reconciled with Robert in their joint grief for Lyanna. It is not the kind of news one shares through raven, and we know Ned and Robert are reunited because of it. Does that mean Lord Arryn or Lord Lannister ever discussed the possibility of a marriage to Cersei before Ned comes back with the news? My guess is that they didn't do so within Robert's hearing. His obsession with Lyanna does not look to allow any other ending but Lyanna being "his." So, did they discuss it secretly? Perhaps, but not during the war. As others have pointed out the evidence shows Tywin did not commit to either side until after the Trident. It also shows that he refused to respond to either side during the war until he showed up in King's Landing. All of which points to the negotiations between Jon and Tywin to have started openly only after Ned returns. It also appears that Ned may have not stayed for the wedding. We can't be sure of that without more information. I'd say staying and pressing his loyalty to Robert was the sensible thing. Pushing his daughter on Robert before the death of Lyanna could have been disastrous. When Jaime gives the Iron Throne over to Ned open conflict is avoided. Once Ned leaves the source of conflict over the Lannister conduct during the sack is gone as well. I would guess that Lannister troops would have to be dispatched, by-in-large, to Casterly Rock and the proximity of forces loyal to the Lannisters and those loyal to Robert is diminished considerably the possibility of conflict lessens as well.. My major question here is just where was Varys in the first days following the sack? Who did he surrender to? I assume Ned takes Jaime in charge, and Pycelle probably heads to Lord Tywin as quickly as possible. What of the rest of the small council? We know it is Lord Tywin who tells the Gold Cloaks it is either the Wall or death, so the early days after the sack must have been a tense time between Ned and Tywin.
  2. SFDanny

    Jon Arryn's opinion of Lyanna

    I think we view Duskendale in very different lights. You seem to think it evidence that Tywin plotted with others to kill Aerys. I don't think so. It seems evidence to me that Tywin was willing to take action that would most likely force the death of Aerys, but there is no evidence he plotted with anyone else to murder his king. He only had to attack. Taking advantage of the situation is not the same as evidence of conspiracy. Or do I read you wrong?
  3. SFDanny

    The Wiki-Timeline Project v2

    Which is why Martin reminds us that the Lady Ashara was not "nailed to the floor in Dorne." It is very clear in the books that Cat does in fact believe Jon is conceived after she wed Ned in a chance encounter with someone who fulfilled his "man's needs." This variant only presumes that woman was Ashara, rather than a peasant girl, a tavern wench, a fisherman's daughter, or perhaps a wet-nurse named Wylla. Given the tiny bit of information we are given of Ashara's whereabouts, this is not a crazy theory, but is without much support at this point. End of off topic posts. Sorry, RT!
  4. SFDanny

    The Wiki-Timeline Project v2

    I would caution against using chapter sequence as an indicator of real sequence. When switching from one storyline to another, as in your example, it can be just the reverse.
  5. SFDanny

    The Wiki-Timeline Project v2

    Let me deal with this point separately to underline something. What Martin said in his remarks outside the books, may or may not be accurate, but the validity of this additional information isn't necessarily even part of this effort to build a timeline. For instance, a certain fan theory we will call a variant on R+L=J tells us the meaning of the quote by Martin reveals that Jon's nameday in the books really isn't his nameday. That Ned, perhaps with the knowledge and help of a very few others, in fact lied and changed the date Jon was actually born to what the rest of the world, including Jon himself, believe to be the day he was born. None of this theory would need be reflected in how a timeline is built from the information in the books. In fact, it may contradict Martin's remarks. YOU decide what if anything is the meaning of that contradiction. The timeline shows only what the books say. Not what the author says outside of the books, unless it is specifically an edit of the books. What the books tell us is that is that the month of Jon's nameday does indeed follow the month in which Dany's nameday falls, and it also shows that Dany is indeed fourteen for a while before Jon turns fifteen. We can say by the information the books tell us that Jon's birth is celebrated such that we would know him to be born in the Year 283 AC and Dany's birth to have occurred in 284 AC. Many of us have argued that Dany's nameday is, true or not, shown in the books to be around midyear. @Rhaenys_Targaryen has just given you an excellent summation of the information in the books that tell us this to be so. Others have shown and argued that the nameday celebrated in the books for Jon is sometime in the fall months after Robb's and before Margaery's, likely late in the 10th month. Again what you make of those bits of information is up for each reader to decide. As and aside to this discussion it is best when using Martin's quote to actually say what he says. He says the difference in age between Jon and Dany is "eight or nine months or thereabouts," not "nine months." The difference between can be critical when evaluating theories.
  6. SFDanny

    The Wiki-Timeline Project v2

    Jon Arryn dies a fortnight after the tourney in honor of Joffery's twelfth nameday. We can be sure this is in 298 AC because he is said to be thirteen when he has his next nameday tourney described in ACoK when Tyrion and his companions ride into the Red Keep, AND he is still thirteen when he dies at the purple wedding on the first day of 300 AC. This tells us, btw, that all of the story from Bran's story onward, not counting the prologue in AGoT and the Daenerys first chapters take place in 298 or later. As to Clash being in 299, @Rhaenys_Targaryen has shown how above. Ooops, I see @Ran has also explained this. I won't continue, but just ask questions and people will be happy to explain why we think we know what we know.
  7. SFDanny

    The Wiki-Timeline Project v2

    Let me disagree here. There is no reference to Jon's "true" nameday in any of this. The reference to the nine moons difference between the Flight to Dragonstone and Dany's nameday as stated clearly in the books is still valid whether or not one subscribes to theories of Dany not being Dany or not, as she clearly celebrates her nameday in keeping with that difference, regardless if there is some truth to such hidden theories. Dany hasn't lived her life celebrating her name day on a day that does not conform to what she has been taught even if what she has been taught is not true. The same with Jon. So, no, the attempt here is to build a time line based on what the material shows. Not on opinions about various fan theories.
  8. SFDanny

    The Wiki-Timeline Project v2

    I think you have done a wonderful job here. I would have started from a simpler place. We know the sack of King's Landing is in 283 AC. It's published in AGoT appendices and multiple other places. We know Dany's name day is in 284 AC. The timing of both the comet and the news of Robert's death puts her nameday in 284. That the sack and her nameday are in two separate years and her birth is known to have taken place nine moons after the flight to Dragonstone allows us to eliminate trimesters from the range of both her birth and when the sack falls into. Dany can't be born after nine months after the last day of the year 283 - the last day possible for the sack by the AGoT citation. Which means we can eliminate the last trimester for her nameday. Because of the nine moon difference between flight and birth we can be sure the sack does not take place in the first three moons of 283. Add in your wonderful summation of other information we can place, I think Dany's birth around midyear give or take a few weeks, and the sack around the start of the ninth month give or take the same few weeks. Knowing the exact timing between the Flight and the Sack would help a lot here. The only other thing off the top of my head is that we know Robert's death occurs in 298 AC and that the news of Dany's pregnancy, and therefore the timing of her nameday previous to that, arrives in King's Landing before the turning of the year. Not a particular important point because it is proven by other clues you have named and others like Margaery's nameday. I have to go back and look at my notes but Jaime's and Cersei's nameday may help further narrow this down. If I recall correctly they are born in the first part of 266 AC, so let me get back to you on this and I'll see if I'm right and if it helps. Robb's nameday combined with Catelyn's memories of her wedding in Riverrun being 15 years previously point to his nameday falling in the last trimester of 283 AC. We know Robb is conceived on Catelyn's and Ned's wedding night and that the Battle of the Bells takes place before the wedding because of the death of Jon's heir at that Battle. We can narrow down the time of the Battle to either in the first three months of 283 before the wedding or possibly in the last month or so in 282 AC. Not as helpful as we could hope for, but it is a start. Because of the timing of the news of Robb's death I think we can narrow his nameday down even further. He turns sixteen before they set out from Riverrun to the Twins. The description of the march north through the rain places at least a month of travel with two months being possible. Robb is probably born in the 10th month and the wedding likely takes place in the first. We know from Cat it is a nine month pregnancy. How long after the Battle of the Bells does the wedding take place? Not long is my guess. Hoster has reason to want it done quickly.
  9. I have a question about this date which may be in error or just misunderstood by me: Does this mean the marriage took place on the last day of 133 AC or of 134 AC? If it means 133 AC it doesn't fit with the timeline as we are told leading up to the marriage. Before this we are told the following: and this: The phrase "ascended the Iron Throne" references the time when Lord Unwin announce the Maiden's Day ball in which Aegon would choose his new bride. That means that between the 22nd day of the 9th moon of and sometime before the announcement of the ball Maiden's day was still three months away. There are a number of reasons this is problematic if the marriage takes place the last day of 133 AC. Obviously, if there is almost no time between the death of Jaehaera and the announcement of the ball it still puts the ball very, very close to the last weeks of the Year 133. Are we to believe that the wedding took place just days after the ball? More importantly, we are told earlier that Maiden's Day falls much earlier in the year. and before this event we are told the following: Which tells us that Maiden's Day in 130 AC falls before the 22nd day of the 5th moon, not in the last few days of the year - a timing that fits with the Maiden's Day we see in the main series. Does Maiden's Day happen more than once a year? Does the time it is celebrated "float" from year to year? Am I just not reading the date of Aegon's and Daenera's wedding correctly and it happens in the following year after Jaehaera's death? Or is this just an error in the date printed? Thanks to @Ran or anyone else who can help me sort this out.
  10. SFDanny

    FIRE AND BLOOD EXCERPT

    1. This looks to be simply Gyldan's work, but of course he quotes other histories and tells you what he thinks of the scholarship and reliability of those other historians. 2. Not that I've seen yet.
  11. SFDanny

    FIRE AND BLOOD EXCERPT

    I haven't had time to go over it to compare with what was released in the video, but on the surface it looks the same. Same typeface and format iirc.
  12. SFDanny

    FIRE AND BLOOD EXCERPT

    First two pages are much the same format as the Targaryen Succession in A Game of Thrones. Last two pages are the Targaryen "family tree" much like the layout of the Stark and Lannister lineage in TWoI&F. No real discussion by the maesters.
  13. SFDanny

    FIRE AND BLOOD EXCERPT

    Last chapter ends on 706, followed by a short section (4 pages) on lineages and a Targaryen family tree, and lastly a one page "about the author" text. No index or appendix.
  14. SFDanny

    FIRE AND BLOOD EXCERPT

    My US version has no such appendix.
  15. SFDanny

    FIRE AND BLOOD EXCERPT

    I can't complain. I woke up at 3:00 in the morning and now trying to complete another chapter before going to sleep!
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