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Shmedricko

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  1. Shmedricko

    Moments of Foreshadowing v.12

    1) There are more lines like that too: 2) Also, there is one other person whose "heart had turned to stone": I take this as more supporting evidence that Jon will die and be resurrected. 3) The Red Dragon and the Gold, Fire and Blood I got a copper says our wee Aegon, the noblest lad that ever lived, changes the color of the dragon on his banners from red to green. And/or Dany could introduce this variation to her sigil: Interestingly, golden flames were on Prince Aerion's personal arms:
  2. Shmedricko

    Master thread on what the Show means for the book plot

    George said back in 2014 that D&D correctly guessed the identity of Jon's mother: Benioff and Weiss later said that during that meeting you asked them who they think Jon Snow’s mother was, which is one of the earliest — and seemingly one of the central — mysteries in A Song of Ice and Fire.
 I did ask that at one point, just to see how closely they’d read the text. Did they get it right?
 They answered correctly. Some readers, I think, would also ask who Jon Snow’s father truly is, even though Jon was always claimed to be Ned Stark’s bastard son.
 [Martin smiles] On this I shall not speak. I shall maintain my enigmatic silence, until I get to it in the books. -George R.R. Martin: The Complete Rolling Stone Interview, June 13, 2014
  3. Shmedricko

    Master thread on what the Show means for the book plot

    A few Reddit posts which I think are pretty insightful: 1) How Bran's chapter sets up a far more compelling conclusion than the show gave us, by /u/feldman10 - Explaining how Bran sentencing Jon to the Night's Watch for murdering Daenerys could be a lot more satisfying in the books, by relating it to Bran's very first chapter in the series. Excerpt: 2) A certain character's final decision will be much darker in the books, by /u/YezenIRL - Theorizing that Jon will kill Dany primarily to protect his family, fulfilling the treason for love; and that, unbeknownst to Jon, Dany will be pregnant with his child when he does this. Excerpt: So not only were we getting foreshadowing about Daenerys possibly having children there at the end, but we were also getting foreshadowing that Jon would have children. Red herring? maybe. Or maybe Daenerys was originally going to be pregnant when Jon killed her, but the writers decided it was unnecessarily bleak and controversial, so instead they wrote it out. [...] Though what Jon does seems to be the right thing in light of Dany's tyranny, Daenerys being pregnant when Jon chooses his family over her would reassert the reality that Daenerys is also Jon's family. And by betraying her, even if for a good reason, is kinslaying in every sense of the word. tldr 2; When Jon kills Daenerys, she will be (unbeknownst to him) pregnant with his child. 3) The Curse of Harrenhal: How the location of the Great Council explains the ending in the books, by /u/YezenIRL - Theorizing that the Great Council in the books will be held on the Isle of Faces, and that Bran will take Harrenhal as his seat (which Bran actually has a claim to through Catelyn's mother Minisa Whent). Excerpt: For those who have been wondering how the books would ever get to a scenario where a Great Council is even considering making a crippled boy the king, I have three words for you. Location. Location. Location. While the show puts the Great Council at the Dragonpit and has Bran as the abdicated little brother of the Lady of Winterfell, the odds will likely be shifted dramatically in Bran's favor in the books. Because if the Great Council is happening just beneath Harrenhal, then Bran holds a claim to the very land on which the council is taking place. And that's not even mentioning the massive Old Gods connection giving Bran the home field advantage. Sure (assuming he survives) Edmure Tully comes before Bran i the line of succesion, but alas Edmure will probably be passed over in the books just as he was on the show. Poor Edmure never gets a break. And that really shouldn't come as a big surprise. While Edmure is the Lord of Riverrun, Brandon Stark is the heir to The North and the Riverlands. Which is about half the land in Westeros. And yes, just as happened in the show, it will likely be Tyrion who gives the speech which gets the Lords of Westeros to put aside their reservations about crowning a crippled boy. This is set up pretty early in the story by Tyrion's soft spot for cripples, bastards, and broken things. And yes, the power of stories will probably in some way be a part of Tyron's speech in the books too. D&D failed to set it up, but people have to realize that whenever something feels totally out of left field on the show, it's either because it's complete crowd pleasing fanservice, or because it's from the books and they failed to set it up (for example, that one time they called Jon "The White Wolf" or Bran being called "Bran the Broken.") Tyrion's speech was clearly not fanservice. It's more likely to be conceptually from the books. Beyond that, this serves as a callback to the Shakespeare line that likely inspired the ending for GRRM. This is the famous opening line in Shakespeare's play about Richard III, and the War of the Roses. In this soliloquy, the titular Richard III is proclaiming that the time of hardship is over, and good times are ahead, now that King Edward IV has re-ascended to the throne. Of course, what follows this are revealed to be not so good times, but I digress. We don't know what the future holds for Westeros, and we can assume that peace will not last forever. GRRM has blatantly acknowledged that Tyrion is in many ways inspired by Richard III. The winter of our discontent seems referenced by the winter of the Long Night, but also the general period of war the story encompasses. "Summer" is the name of Bran's direwolf, and the Yorks are the Starks so King Brandon Stark is the sun/son of York. Thus Martin will likely end his story much like Shakespeare began his. By hailing to the son of Stark. The rise of the Fischer King Brandon Stark to the throne will also likely represent the breaking of the curse of Harrenhal. Not only because making a greenseer the king makes up for the Weirwoods destroyed in Harrenhal's construction, but also because the establishment of an elective monarchy makes it so that no one House will ever rule over Harrenhal. Instead the Hall of Kings will pass from one ruler to the next, each chosen at the Isle of Faces, in the sight of Gods and Men. tldr; Bran the Broken will be chosen as King at the Isle of Faces, and he will rule from Harrenhal, thereby breaking the curse and establishing a new seat of power. Bonus Point! As a bonus, I wanna throw out that this is already being set up in the books by King Robb's crown, ownership of which the books have been tracking since the Red Wedding. The crown is currently in the position of Lady Stoneheart, who went out of her way to get it back. Robb's crown will likely eventually make it's way to Bran, and will eventually be placed on his head by Sansa or Arya at his coronation.
  4. Shmedricko

    [Book Spoilers] R+L=J, A+J=T and other theories on HBO V.4

    D&D indicated that Stannis burning Shireen and Hold the Door came from GRRM, but that does not mean those are the only things from GRRM that they have used on the show. They referenced those two moments in particular because those were two out of three things GRRM told them that made them go, "holy shit." David Benioff teased that the third holy shit moment "is from the very end," so mentioning all that was a way to get people speculating about the finale. D&D don't want to do that with every single thing they include, though, especially now that it's the final season, because that would be directly spoiling the rest of Martin's stated plans for the books. The best that anyone can do is to analyze all the available information — the content of the books and show, quotes from GRRM, D&D, and other people with inside knowledge, any other pertinent data — and then make decisions about what they think is likely to be the same between the two mediums (should the rest of the books be published), and what they think is likely to be different. This process is no different than how people speculated about the books before the show existed: they collected relevant information — details from the books, potential clues, themes, statements GRRM made outside the series, etc. — and then made judgements about what they thought was likely to happen in the story. The show, and statements made by people involved in the show, is just another body of information to analyze and interpret.
  5. Shmedricko

    [Book Spoilers] R+L=J, A+J=T and other theories on HBO V.4

    For what it's worth, D&D said during the "Inside the Episode" segment that only Targaryens can ride dragons: Realistically, I would have to take Benioff's subsequent comment about Jon being slow on the uptake as nothing more than a joke, however; because if Jon and/or Dany know that only Targaryens can ride dragons, but have no inkling that Jon is a Targaryen, then him trying to casually mount a dragon is crazy. So my interpretation right now is that in the show dragons can indeed only be ridden by Targaryens, but that Jon and Dany don't know about this. Someone like Varys might know, though, and bring it up in a future episode; they made a point of showing Varys, Tyrion, and Davos' reactions when Jon flew right in front of them. (I imagine the Night King killing and resurrecting a dragon as his thrall is an exception to the "only Targaryens" rule.) I'm pretty sure Cersei will be killed by the same person in both the books and the show (I think that person is almost certainly Jaime). I suspect that they eliminated the line about the valonqar from Maggy's prophecy just so Cersei's fate isn't as obvious to show-only viewers. I'm still somewhat surprised that GRRM wrote what appears to be such a clear instance of foreshadowing for the death of a major character. He obscures it a bit by referencing "valonqar" a few times without the full context, and only later clarifying that it means "little brother." But an actor saying something on-screen during a 60-minute episode sticks in a person's mind more than a few lines scattered throughout hundreds of pages in a book, so for that reason I think the showrunners didn't want to have Maggy essentially say, "You will be strangled by your little brother." (I know some fans have interpreted this prophecy in increasingly vague and obscure ways, so that basically any younger sibling can be the valonqar, male or female (or Arya wearing Tyrion or Jaime's face), but I doubt those theories are true. I think the prophecy's fulfillment has to be personal to Cersei, limiting the candidates to Tyrion and Jaime. And since Cersei is convinced the valonqar is Tyrion, she would be blindsided if it's actually Jaime, who is younger than her by mere moments.) But you could be right, and I will reanalyze my position when I see what the show does with Cersei and Jaime.
  6. Shmedricko

    Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

    1) I see this supposed asymmetry brought up every so often, but I don't think it's an issue at all. Symbolism is not mathematics. Jon can represent ice when compared to Dany's fire, fire when compared to the White Walkers' ice, and ice & fire by himself, all at the same time. For the books, Martin indicated that Jon and Dany representing ice and fire, respectively, is one of multiple possible meanings for the title: (There are more quotes where Martin alludes to the title having multiple meanings, including another in that same interview.) And for the show, it's very clear that the union of Jon and Dany is seen as a union of ice and fire: 2) Here is /u/Mr_Freeload's description of one of Jon and Dany's scenes in the Season 8 premiere (although note that some of it could be incomplete, inaccurate, and/or editorialized). The part that I've bolded might be foreshadowing:
  7. Shmedricko

    Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

    In Season 6 Episode 4, Melisandre explicitly says that Jon is the prince that was promised: And then in the very next episode, Season 6 Episode 5, Kinvara explicitly says that Daenerys is the one who was promised: (Both proclamations are followed by references to Melisandre being previously wrong about the prophecy.) Unless one believes that the show would casually state the true identity of the prince that was promised well before the last season, Jon and Dany are not viable candidates for the prophecy. But their child could be. When Dany asks if Melisandre believes the prophecy refers to her, Melisandre merely says "Prophecies are dangerous things," and that she believes both Dany and Jon have a role to play. When Jon arrives at Dragonstone in the next episode, Melisandre says: In the leaked Preliminary Outline for Season 7, Melisandre said something even more specific during her meeting with Dany, which was perhaps cut for being too revealing: And then in the Season 7 finale, Jon and Dany have sex and presumably conceive a child, based on the foreshadowing for that throughout the season. If this theory is true, the hints for both Jon and Dany being the prince that was promised (or in the show's case, direct statements to that effect) would not be negated, just reframed: it's not one or both of them that fulfills the prophecy, but a child created through their union. The "prince or princess" part also works well with the prophecy referring to a yet-to-be-born child, because the child could be male or female -- and we may never learn which it is, either because the child is sacrificed in the womb, or because the child is born and that information is simply withheld from the audience, whether the child is sacrificed or survives. (Alternatively, we could find out the sex of the child, but the point is that it doesn't matter.) TL;DR: Jon and Dany's child could be the prince/princess that was promised.
  8. Shmedricko

    Jon Snow's Real Name

    I made a post on Reddit over a year ago about Jon's birth name being Aemon which may be of interest to this thread: (Spoilers Extended) His True Name: A Detailed Analysis I don't want to repeat it all here, because it's quite long, but the post is divided into four parts: Jon Doe - Establishing what is known about the name Jon, and why there is reason to believe he was given another name before that Prince Aemon - Potential clues that the name was Aemon Targaryen (there are still a few possible hints I haven't added to the post, including new ones from F&B) Future Significance - The possibility that Jon could adopt Aemon (or any Targaryen name) as his regnal name, but still go by Jon with certain people The Show - A quick note about GOT and its future (I made the post shortly before Season 7). If you don't want to read about GOT then just stop once you reach "The Show" header. I am no longer "almost certain" that Jon's birth name is Aemon, however. I'm now torn between Aemon and Aegon, and have started to lean towards Aegon. @J. Stargaryen covered many of the key points regarding the Aegon possibility above, and there are more Aegon quotes which could have relevant double meanings about Jon (a comparable amount to the Aemon quotes, I think, which is why I'm torn), such as Aemon giving Jon the same advice he gave his brother Aegon when they parted for the last time: Or this new quote from Fire & Blood: Quoting and slightly editing another comment I made on Reddit: I've also considered the possibility that GRRM may have originally planned for Aemon, or kept his options somewhat open on Jon's true name (being the gardener that he is), and only later decided that Aegon would work best to compare and contrast with Young Griff being introduced in ADWD. Ultimately, I don't think it matters too much. Both names can work. If GRRM goes with Aegon, then the Aegon hints will take on additional meaning, and the Aemon hints will be relegated to generic Targaryen foreshadowing. If GRRM goes with Aemon, then the Aemon hints will take on additional meaning, and the Aegon hints will be relegated to generic Targaryen foreshadowing. But basically, I think it's a toss-up between Aegon and Aemon (and at the moment I'm leaning towards Aegon). It's been pointed out before, but this line is interesting because while Jon thought that after literally being given a sword, giving one's sword is also a symbol for swearing fealty, and the Iron Throne is made of swords. So that line could foreshadow lots of men fighting for/swearing loyalty to Jon because he's Rhaegar's son (and Jon accepting that), but Jon still remembering Ned as his father.
  9. Shmedricko

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    After impregnating himself, it is known: Tyrion gave a sigh. "But do go on, I pray you. I love a good tale." "And well you might, since you were said to have one, a stiff curly tail like a swine's. Your head was monstrous huge, we heard, half again the size of your body, and you had been born with thick black hair and a beard besides, an evil eye, and lion's claws. Your teeth were so long you could not close your mouth, and between your legs were a girl's privates as well as a boy's." "Life would be much simpler if men could fuck themselves, don't you agree? And I can think of a few times when claws and teeth might have proved useful. Even so, I begin to see the nature of your complaint." (Tyrion V, ASOS)
  10. Shmedricko

    [SPOILERS] Jaehaerys and Alysanne

    1) A little bit of irony and foreshadowing I enjoyed: 2) I thought it was a neat reversal to have three horn blasts signal the coming of a dragon, rather than the Others. The cold, windy weather helps reinforce this connection, as does Alysanne (who would later visit the Wall) experiencing a chilly reaction to the sound. The young Targaryen princelings Daenerys and Aemon being amongst those to hear the ominous horn is unlikely to be a coincidence, I think, given Dany and Jon's presumed involvement in the looming conflict of the main series (Jon possibly being a Targaryen named Aemon or Aegon). If there is some foreshadowing here (besides the Horn of Winter bringing down the Wall), it could be that the Others will obtain a dragon of their own, perhaps an ice dragon or by killing and resurrecting one of Dany's dragons.
  11. Shmedricko

    Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

    http://www.westeros.org/GoT/News/Entry/ForTheThrone_Videos_Reveal_April_Premiere_Date I suspect HBO is framing their marketing campaign around this "#ForTheThrone" hashtag in an attempt to make it all the more impactful when the Iron Throne and King's Landing are presumably destroyed in a wildfire/dragonfire conflagration. Which is not to say that a new capital and throne couldn't later be established somewhere else, such as Harrenhal, for example. But in the moment it would be surprising (for the many viewers who don't seriously speculate about this stuff), make for a powerful symbol, and no doubt have people wondering, "What on earth happens now?" A couple of comments I saw on Reddit also bringing up this idea: /u/ThisIsKramerica: "This “for the throne” hashtag makes me think there will be no throne at the end of s8. Help with the perceived twist of it all" /u/kingbdogz: "I'm 100% certain it's a bait and switch. They want people to ponder who will make it on the throne, only to pull the rug underneath them when the Throne is either destroyed or the people we think want it don't pursue it in the end."
  12. Dothraki khals make endless war on one another once beyond the sacred precincts of Vaes Dothrak, their holy city, but the gods of the Jogos Nhai forbid them to shed the blood of their own people (young men do ride out to steal goats, dogs, and zorses from other bands, whilst their sisters go forth to abduct husbands, but these are rituals hallowed by the gods of the plains, during which no blood may be shed). (TWOIAF - The Bones and Beyond: The Plains of the Jogos Nhai)
  13. Shmedricko

    Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

    @TheSlayerofLies & @Keep Shelly in Athens: I'm /u/ShmedStark on Reddit, and I wrote the post "(Spoilers Production) I went through the Preliminary Outline for Season 7. Here's what I found." I don't have time to address every point I would like to regarding your discussion of the leaked outline and summaries, but here's a screenshot of the page which contains the quote in question: https://i.imgur.com/ZdAqwG6.jpg And here's an album with 3 separate screenshots of the Episode Summaries that was linked on /r/freefolk 3 months ago by /u/Andrija2567 and /u/BlueWinterRose7 in [these] [comment] [chains] (and maybe elsewhere), also containing the quote (in the 2nd screenshot): https://imgur.com/a/33TzQU6 I hope that helps. Side note: This is old information, but I just learned it while working on this reply: I did a quick Google search to see if there were other screenshots of the Episode Summaries easily available online and stumbled across a website saying the file of Episode Summaries was created in August 2016: https://www.databreaches.net/hackers-claim-to-have-leaked-game-of-thrones-season-finale/ In my Reddit post I mentioned that I thought the Episode Summaries had to be more recent than the Preliminary Outline (which was dated April 26 2016) because they were more accurate to the aired episodes, but I wasn't sure by how much because there was no date listed anywhere on the pages (unlike the Preliminary Outline). But apparently they're around 4 months more recent. For reference, August 2016 is the same month that Season 7 filming began.
  14. I may not have the free time to post about ASOIAF/GOT any longer. I just thought I'd leave this update so people know not to expect more content from this account. (I'm aware I didn't post that much in the first place.)

  15. Shmedricko

    Moments of Foreshadowing v.12

    Another related one involving Jon III, AGOT: Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. (Bran III, AGOT 17) Inside, Jon hung sword and scabbard from a hook in the stone wall, ignoring the others around him. Methodically, he began to strip off his mail, leather, and sweat-soaked woolens. Chunks of coal burned in iron braziers at either end of the long room, but Jon found himself shivering. The chill was always with him here. In a few years he would forget what it felt like to be warm. (Jon III, AGOT 19) Edit: And these quotes seem to tie in nicely as well: "The fort is in a sorry state, admittedly. You will restore it as best you can. Start by clearing back the forest. Steal stones from the structures that have collapsed to repair those still standing." The work will be hard and brutal, he might have added. You'll sleep on stone, too exhausted to complain or plot, and soon you'll forget what it was like to be warm, but you might remember what it was to be a man. (Jon II, ADWD 7) "You are half the age that Egg was, and your own burden is a crueler one, I fear. You will have little joy of your command, but I think you have the strength in you to do the things that must be done. Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born." (Jon II, ADWD 7) The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. (Melisandre I, ADWD 31)
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