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IceFire125

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  1. IceFire125

    R+L=J v.166

    D&D was on Jimmy Kimmel recently. Relevant content starts at 1:44 in the video. Jimmy: So we know from the show that's the same Mother from the books that was in the show... D&D: Yes
  2. IceFire125

    Jon's resurrection

    I'm of the opinion that not only Mel, but Val will also play a role in Jon's "resurrection" (Mel might bring back Jon's body from its wounds and Val bring back Jon's spirit/consciousness from Ghost). Jon was born through the blood of Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryen), he will also be brought back [reborn] through the rituals of Ice (Val) and Fire (Mel).
  3. IceFire125

    R+L=J v.165

    GRRM spilling Rhaegar clues in Jon... “Do you mislike the girl?” Tormund asked him as they passed another twenty mammoths, these bearing wildlings in tall wooden towers instead of giants. “No, but I …” What can I say that he will believe? “I am still too young to wed.” “Wed?” Tormund laughed. “Who spoke of wedding? In the south, must a man wed every girl he beds?” Jon could feel himself turning red again. “She spoke for me when Rattleshirt would have killed me. I would not dishonor her.” “You are a free man now, and Ygritte is a free woman. What dishonor if you lay together?” “I might get her with child.” “Aye, I’d hope so. A strong son or a lively laughing girl kissed by fire, and where’s the harm in that?” Words failed him for a moment. “The boy … the child would be a bastard.” “Are bastards weaker than other children? More sickly, more like to fail?” “No, but—” “You’re bastard-born yourself. And if Ygritte does not want a child, she will go to some woods witch and drink a cup o’ moon tea. You do not come into it, once the seed is planted.” “I will not father a bastard.” Tormund shook his shaggy head. “What fools you kneelers be. Why did you steal the girl if you don’t want her?” “Steal? I never …” “You did,” said Tormund. “You slew the two she was with and carried her off, what do you call it?” “I took her prisoner.” “You made her yield to you.” --- ...Ygritte insisted. “Like the night you stole me. The Thief was bright that night.” “I never meant to steal you,” he said. “I never knew you were a girl until my knife was at your throat.” Rhaegar didn't realize that Lyanna was a girl at sword point (maybe while she was taking off her mismatched armor?) Then did Rhaegar or the two KG ( Whent/Dayne) had to fight off/killed men (sent by King Aerys) that were chasing the KOTLT shortly after?
  4. IceFire125

    Jon Snow's Real Name

    I'm of the opinion that Jon will be the Uniter, Protector, and King of the Realm by the end of ADOS. I'm still of the belief he is Martin's answer to Tolkien's Aragorn. I'm 50/50 on Jon's Targaryen name being Aemon or Aegon, but it does make sense for Jon's name to be Aegon once he is crowned king. I have this feeling or a hunch for a while that Martin did change Jon's Targaryen name from Aemon (around AGOT-ASOS time frame) to Aegon (around AFFC/ADWD to current time frame). I see that he showered Jon with descriptions of showing Jon's prowess and actions of kingship all through the series, hinting that Jon was born royalty and is legitimate. The hint that sealed it for me was in AFFC, about Rhaegar's rubies. That they are waiting for the seventh to be found. Which makes sense after ADWD's epilogue, when we learn about fAegon. fAegon will be crowned king as Aegon VI. Thus by ADOS, I believe Jon will be crowned king as Aegon VII. Martin could've just put the 8th or 9th or 10th ruby to be found, but no, he purposely inputs that they are waiting for the seventh. That interested Ser Hyle. “Rhaegar’s rubies?” “It may be. Who can say? The battle was long leagues from here, but the river is tireless and patient. Six have been found. We are all waiting for the seventh. - AFFC Brienne
  5. IceFire125

    R+L=J v.165

    I'm of the opinion that Littlefinger got a hold of a message from one of Lyanna's entourage saying that she left willingly with Prince Rhaegar and his Kingsguard (without stating she was running away from King Aerys' men). He then manipulated the message that Lyanna was taken against her will by the Prince and set it up to where Brandon will receive it knowing how he will respond. It almost sounds like Littlefinger does not want Brandon to be in Riverrun for his intended purpose... marrying the lady he fought for and paid for with scars.
  6. IceFire125

    R+L=J v.165

    At the Great Council when the Great Lords of Westeros elect Jon as their king.
  7. IceFire125

    R+L=J v.165

    I agree Varys is not omniscient. In fact, we find out about the loyalty of "his" little birds as not always loyal or suspect of not being his own. The conversation between Tyrion and Varys as they go through the tunnels, regarding Stannis knowing about the King's (Robert) children being illegitimate and bastards born of incest between Jaime and Cersei, thus making the claim of being the true king of Westeros. Noticed the info about Varys' little birds and spies... “I am pleased to hear it, my lord. Some of your sister’s hirelings are mine as well, unbeknownst to her. I should hate to think they had grown so sloppy as to be seen.” ... ...but I find it best to err on the side of caution.” “How is it a brothel happens to have a secret entrance?” “The tunnel was dug for another King’s Hand, whose honor would not allow him to enter such a house openly. Chataya has closely guarded the knowledge of its existence.” “And yet you knew of it.” “Little birds fly through many a dark tunnel. Careful, the steps are steep.” ... Tyrion adjusted the heavy cloak and paced restlessly. “You missed a lively council. Stannis has crowned himself, it seems.” “I know.” “He accuses my brother and sister of incest. I wonder how he came by that suspicion.” “Perhaps he read a book and looked at the color of a bastard’s hair, as Ned Stark did, and Jon Arryn before him. Or perhaps someone whispered it in his ear.” The eunuch’s laugh was not his usual giggle, but deeper and more throaty. “Someone like you, perchance?” “Am I suspected? It was not me.” “If it had been, would you admit it?” “No. But why should I betray a secret I have kept so long? It is one thing to deceive a king, and quite another to hide from the cricket in the rushes and the little bird in the chimney. Besides, the bastards were there for all to see.” “Robert’s bastards? What of them?” “He fathered eight, to the best of my knowing,” Varys said as he wrestled with the saddle. “Their mothers were copper and honey, chestnut and butter, yet the babes were all black as ravens … and as ill-omened, it would seem. So when Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen slid out between your sister’s thighs, each as golden as the sun, the truth was not hard to glimpse.” Tyrion shook his head. If she had borne only one child for her husband, it would have been enough to disarm suspicion … but then she would not have been Cersei. “If you were not this whisperer, who was?” “Some traitor, doubtless.” Varys tightened the cinch. “Littlefinger?” “I named no name.” ----- I believe at this moment GRRM is speaking to the readers through Varys and Tyrion regarding Jon: So when Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen slid out between your sister’s thighs, each as golden as the sun, the truth was not hard to glimpse. For Varys it was easy to tell that Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen wasn't Robert's children because all of Robert's bastards had black hair. It was easy to think that Ned's bastard he took up North was his because he has the Stark look. Tyrion shook his head. If she had borne only one child for her husband, it would have been enough to disarm suspicion Tyrion thoughtfully repeats what Varys said (in how to protect her kin's children), however, add this to how it relates to Ned's thoughts to protect Jon. It wouldn't have been enough to disarm suspicion that Jon is not Ned's son if he didn't claim the boy as his bastard son. Similarly, GRRM basically shouts to the reader when Stannis and Davos were talking about sacrificing Edric Storm for the realm, that it was the child's duty to die. Likewise, we recall back to Ned, in the sacrifice he went through for Jon. Jon was the realm, he was everything, he is royalty, trueborn and the king that Ned vividly remembered the three Kingsguard died for at the tower. “Your Grace,” said Davos, “the cost …” “I know the cost!... what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?” “Everything,” said Davos, softly.
  8. IceFire125

    R+L=J v.165

    You can also add the symbolism and attribute to Targaryenism with Ash and Cinders... She heard a crack, the sound of shattering stone. The platform of wood and brush and grass began to shift and collapse in upon itself. Bits of burning wood slid down at her, and Dany was showered with ash and cinders. And something else came crashing down, bouncing and rolling, to land at her feet; a chunk of curved rock, pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking. The roaring filled the world, yet dimly through the firefall Dany heard women shriek and children cry out in wonder. Only death can pay for life. And there came a second crack, loud and sharp as thunder, and the smoke stirred and whirled around her and the pyre shifted, the logs exploding as the fire touched their secret hearts. She heard the screams of frightened horses, and the voices of the Dothraki raised in shouts of fear and terror, and Ser Jorah calling her name and cursing. No, she wanted to shout to him, no, my good knight, do not fear for me. The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don’t you see? Don’t you SEE? With a belch of flame and smoke that reached thirty feet into the sky, the pyre collapsed and came down around her. Unafraid, Dany stepped forward into the firestorm, calling to her children. The third crack was as loud and sharp as the breaking of the world. When the fire died at last and the ground became cool enough to walk upon, Ser Jorah Mormont found her amidst the ashes, surrounded by blackened logs and bits of glowing ember and the burnt bones of man and woman and stallion. She was naked, covered with soot, her clothes turned to ash, her beautiful hair all crisped away … yet she was unhurt. The cream-and-gold dragon was suckling at her left breast, the green-and-bronze at the right. Her arms cradled them close. The black-and-scarlet beast was draped across her shoulders, its long sinuous neck coiled under her chin. When it saw Jorah, it raised its head and looked at him with eyes as red as coals. - Dany AGOT (hatching of dragons) Ash and Cinders... “Down,” the prince commanded. You must not let him smell your fear. “Down, down, down.” He brought the whip around and laid a lash across the dragon’s face. Viserion hissed. And then a hot wind buffeted him and he heard the sound of leathern wings and the air was full of ash and cinders and a monstrous roar went echoing off the scorched and blackened bricks and he could hear his friends shouting wildly. Gerris was calling out his name, over and over, and the big man was bellowing, “Behind you, behind you, behind you!” Quentyn turned and threw his left arm across his face to shield his eyes from the furnace wind. Rhaegal, he reminded himself, the green one is Rhaegal. When he raised his whip, he saw that the lash was burning. His hand as well. All of him, all of him was burning. Oh, he thought. Then he began to scream. - Dragontamer ADWD (Quentyn facing Viserion and Rhaegal) Ash and Cinders laying under the snow... It was warmer in the godswood, strange to say. Beyond its confines, a hard white frost gripped Winterfell. The paths were treacherous with black ice, and hoarfrost sparkled in the moonlight on the broken panes of the Glass Gardens. Drifts of dirty snow had piled up against the walls, filling every nook and corner. Some were so high they hid the doors behind them. Under the snow lay grey ash and cinders... - The Prince of Winterfell ADWD (Theon at Winterfell) “I trust you enjoyed the journey, Your Grace?” Robert snorted. “Bogs and forests and fields, and scarcely a decent inn north of the Neck. I’ve never seen such a vast emptiness. Where are all your people?” “Likely they were too shy to come out,” Ned jested. He ould feel the chill coming up the stairs, a cold breath from deep within the earth. “Kings are a rare sight in the north.” Robert snorted. “More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!” The king put one hand on the wall to steady himself as they descended. - Eddard AGOT (King Robert visits Winterfell) Ash and Cinders, Kings and Dragons... “His milk name. I had to call him something. See that he stays safe and warm. For his mother’s sake, and mine. And keep him away from the red woman. She knows who he is. She sees things in her fires.” Arya, he thought, hoping it was so. “Ashes and cinders.” “Kings and dragons.” Dragons again. For a moment Jon could almost see them too, coiling in the night, their dark wings outlined against a sea of flame. - Jon ADWD
  9. IceFire125

    R+L=J v.165

    I posted this at another thread a while back, but since it's relevant to the discussion, I wanna share it here as well. I've long believed, Jon is GRRM's answer to JRRT's Aragorn. If we are to believe the theory that Jon will be King Aegon VII... Then I like how this is truly GRRM's answer to JRRT's Aragorn... Make sure that it is the real Strider. There are many strange men on the roads. His true name is Aragorn. All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king. -[The Song of Aragorn in Gandalf's letter to Frodo.]- There was a long silence. At last Frodo spoke with hesitation. ‘I believed that you were a friend before the letter came,’ he said, ‘or at least I wished to. You have frightened me several times tonight, but never in the way that servants of the Enemy would, or so I imagine. I think one of his spies would – well, seem fairer and feel fouler, if you understand.’ ‘I see,’ laughed Strider. ‘I look foul and feel fair. Is that it? All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.’ ‘Did the verses apply to you then?’ asked Frodo. ‘I could not make out what they were about. But how did you know that they were in Gandalf ’s letter, if you have never seen it?’ ‘I did not know,’ he answered. ‘But I am Aragorn, and those verses go with that name.’ - The Fellowship of The Ring. ---- “Aegon,” he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. “What better name for a king?” “Will you make a song for him?” the woman asked. “He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.” When Gilly entered, she went at once to her knees. Jon came around the table and drew her to her feet. “You don’t need to take a knee for me. That’s just for kings.” ... Gilly lowered her hand. An inch. Another. When the flame licked her flesh, she snatched her hand back and began to sob. “Fire is a cruel way to die. Dalla died to give this child life, but you have nourished him, cherished him. You saved your own boy from the ice. Now save hers from the fire.”
  10. IceFire125

    R+L=J v.165

    It doesn't. However, it gives the room for us, the readers (whom GRRM wants to give the hints to) to think further on, that the elder brother heard singers from both sides. He acknowledges both Robert and Rhaegar's claim that they are both fighting for the woman they loved. Up until that chapter of Brienne, we know that Ned does not harbor hatred and anger towards Rhaegar. We know of Robert's thoughts on Rhaegar and the Targaryens, contrast that of Ned... “And Rhaegar … how many times do you think he raped your sister? How many hundreds of times?” His voice had grown so loud that his horse whinnied nervously beneath him. The king jerked the reins hard, quieting the animal, and pointed an angry finger at Ned. “I will kill every Targaryen I can get my hands on, until they are as dead as their dragons, and then I will piss on their graves.” Ned knew better than to defy him when the wrath was on him. If the years had not quenched Robert’s thirst for revenge, no words of his would help. In Ned's first chapter, the severity of the promise was amplified to where it's undeniable to the careful reader... He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister’s eyes. Why such severity? “Ser Jorah would not dare deceive me,” Varys said with a sly smile. “Rely on it, my lord. The princess is with child.” “So you say. If you are wrong, we need not fear. If the girl miscarries, we need not fear. If she births a daughter in place of a son, we need not fear. If the babe dies in infancy, we need not fear.” “But if it is a boy?” Robert insisted. “If he lives?” I'm of the opinion, Ned was protecting a royal Targaryen by blood, born from the union of Rhaegar and Lyanna. He was protecting the true heir to the throne.
  11. IceFire125

    R+L=J v.165

    That's right! The elder brother. He fought for the Targaryens during the war of the usurper. Of course, he admittedly took the singers' version, the bias of Rhaegar and that of Robert. Both claimed to loved Lyanna. I fought for Prince Rhaegar, though he never knew my name. I could not tell you why, save that the lord I served served a lord who served a lord who had decided to support the dragon rather than the stag. Had he decided elsewise, I might have been on the other side of the river. The battle was a bloody thing. The singers would have us believe it was all Rhaegar and Robert struggling in the stream for a woman both of them claimed to love, but I assure you, other men were fighting too, and I was one. Now which singers sang what part of Rhaegar's or Robert's version? or which singers in general that took both versions of claimed love as truth? One thing is certain, by having a version that rebukes Robert's proclaimed image of Rhaegar is already enough, enough to investigate further that Lyanna may indeed have gone willingly.
  12. IceFire125

    R+L=J v.165

    I'm of the opinion GRRM already revealed it to us... And where do I stand? Jon did not know. To stay with Ygritte, he would need to become a wildling heart and soul. If he abandoned her to return to his duty, the Magnar might cut her heart out. And if he took her with him … assuming she would go, which was far from certain … well, he could scarcely bring her back to Castle Black to live among the brothers. A deserter and a wildling could expect no welcome anywhere in the Seven Kingdoms. And where do I stand? Rhaegar did not know. To stay with Lyanna he had to become a wildling heart and soul. If he abandoned her to return to his duty, his Father, the king, would cut her heart out. And if he took her with him ... assuming she would go, which was far from certain ... well, he could take her back to Winterfell to be with her family and brother. Deserters of duties... from a wife (Elia) and from a betroth (Robert) could expect no welcome anywhere in the Seven Kingdoms. ----- We know Jon finally returned to his duty... again, I'm of the opinion that GRRM already revealed it to us... Ygritte was much in his thoughts as well. He remembered the smell of her hair, the warmth of her body … and the look on her face as she slit the old man’s throat. You were wrong to love her, a voice whispered. You were wrong to leave her, a different voice insisted. He wondered if his father had been torn the same way, when he’d left Jon’s mother to return to Lady Catelyn. He was pledged to Lady Stark, and I am pledged to the Night’s Watch. Jon pledged his vows to the Night's Watch in front of the heart tree... just as his Father, Rhaegar, pledged his vows to Lady Lyanna Stark, his Mother.
  13. IceFire125

    The Book of Swords - The Sons of the Dragon SPOILERS

    I wish he would've covered more about Aegon's progresses with Aenys tagging along. In TWOIAF, it briefly mentioned that Aegon's last progress in 33AC was in Winterfell. I kinda hoped that GRRM would've covered it further, especially how Aenys interacted with or thoughts regarding the Starks and the North in general.
  14. IceFire125

    [Spoilers] EP601

    Mel = Shiera Seastar??
  15. IceFire125

    [Spoilers] EP505 Discussion

    I love this scene in the book, even though it was short in the show, I love it regardless. Because it's so epic! http://i.imgur.com/POKqPej.jpg
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