Why do people love Stannis?

[Red Typer of Dorne]

Sorry if this has already been covered, but it genuinely flummoxes (great word) me how so many people seem to love someone who murders his brother, cheats on his wife, imprisons his most loyal follower, denies his people religious freedom and burns men alive. Yes he rides to the defense of the wall thanks to Davos but even there he tries to bully the watch to meet his needs. He seems to be one of the more horrible characters in the series. However I am open to persuasion, so please explain this Stannis love affair.

[Poodle Pup From Astapor]

I think it's got to do more with the show character than the book character. The show character is more sympathetic. In the show, he's unselfish, plain, sort of humble. He's basically a simple man with strong beliefs, and that sometimes leads to bad things. His brother had it coming, though.

He's also a pretty passionate guy (although reserved) who fights his own battles, not sits somewhere behind the lines.

He's played by a good actor, too.

The book character is harder to like, he's a prick, selfish and not all that loyal tbh, considering he just ran off and left Robert to the Lannisters. He's cold, calculated and sits behind the lines.

It makes way more sense that no one likes Stannis in the books. It didn't really make sense in the show. He seemed like a pretty likable person, unless you are his enemy. A good fair leader, it made no sense why most people didn't want him as a king.

[The Santa of House Claus]

(You're right, flummoxes is a great word) But I am at a loss for why people seem to like him so much. I think the show has something to do with that (that applies to most of the characters really). While I agree that Stannis is the rightful heir and agree with his move to defend the Wall, I still do not like his personality, he makes some decent quips with his dry humor, though that is also blown out of proportion. He just whines and bitches about what is due him to much. Plus everything you mentioned.

One of the biggest things for me though are the 3 leeches, well one in particular.

Joffery - totally understandable, Stannis knew he was a bastard with no real claim to the throne. (as well as being a major piece of shit)

Balon - Stannis would know how he thinks and acts and already thought Robert was to soft on him the first time. Stannis would know Balon would no just surrendor, it would be a long fight, and in the end, Stannis would kill him anyways.

Robb - Here is the kicker, Stannis did not know Robb, he had no past with him to know how he thinks or why he is claiming the crown of the Kings of Winter (and now the Trident). He does not know that Ned knew the truth and tried to give the crown to Stannis. He did not know that Robb would have supported Stannis, had Robb known the truth about Joffery and Tommen and (IMO) would have put off the crown in order to save his people from more fighting. After all, Robb did not start the war as a war of independence or a war against Stannis, Robb's fight was with the Lannisters, as was Stannis. Given the chance, they could have made common cause and crushed the Lannisters.

[Red Typer of Dorne]

I think it's got to do more with the show character than the book character. The show character is more sympathetic. In the show, he's unselfish, plain, sort of humble. He's basically a simple man with strong beliefs, and that sometimes leads to bad things. His brother had it coming, though.

He's also a pretty passionate guy (although reserved) who fights his own battles, not sits somewhere behind the lines.

He's played by a good actor, too.

The book character is harder to like, he's a prick, selfish and not all that loyal tbh, considering he just ran off and left Robert to the Lannisters. He's cold, calculated and sits behind the lines.

It makes way more sense that no one likes Stannis in the books. It didn't really make sense in the show. He seemed like a pretty likable person, unless you are his enemy. A good fair leader, it made no sense why most people didn't want him as a king.

The acting in the show is fantastic, however his bad points are still there. He uses blood magic, burns peoples gods etc the only time I've felt any compassion for Stannis is when he interacts with Shireen that shows he's at least human

[The Santa of House Claus]

The acting in the show is fantastic, however his bad points are still there. He uses blood magic, burns peoples gods etc the only time I've felt any compassion for Stannis is when he interacts with Shireen that shows he's at least human

Agreed, his interpersonal interactions and just how uncomfortable he is with it does make me think or rethink about the autism thread. Though I will not really comment one way or the other because I do not understand autism enough to really make anything close to an educated judgement, just that there are many types of degrees of autism. But that is besides the point.

I did like his interaction with Shireen (even more Shireen's and Davos' interaction).

There is also Mel, am I the only one who does not like her at all? I wont say she is a villain, but I do not like her.

[skittles72]

I don't know we hy everybody loves stannis I don't understand it myself

[MyLittleFinger]

Sorry if this has already been covered, but it genuinely flummoxes (great word) me how so many people seem to love someone who murders his brother, cheats on his wife, imprisons his most loyal follower, denies his people religious freedom and burns men alive. Yes he rides to the defense of the wall thanks to Davos but even there he tries to bully the watch to meet his needs. He seems to be one of the more horrible characters in the series. However I am open to persuasion, so please explain this Stannis love affair.

Why do people love Jon Snow? He murdered his brother, he broke his vows and cheated on it, he sent away his most loyal follower on a sea journey that could have killed him, he threatens a Holy Septon, steals peoples babies from their mothers and hangs people who disagree with him. Yes he helps save the Wall thanks to a guilt oath sworn to the man he murdered but he even tries to bully other watchmen who don't agree with his methods. He seems to be one of the more horrible characters in the series. However I am open to persuasion, so please explain this Jon Snow love affair.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

It has nothing to do with the show character. If anything the show has put a damper on the stannis love.

Stannis the mannis madness started right after ADWD. People love him because he is the only hope for defeating the Boltons and returning a stark to winterfell: plus, he's a really amusing character to read - skme of the best one liners in the books. Also Jon fans love him because he is fond of jon and on his side.

In a book series full of people fighting for the iron throne it's refreshong to see someone actually fighting the real threats in the north. I like that he's morally compromised, personally. If he was a great guy doing great things that would be boring.

[Poodle Pup From Astapor]

It has nothing to do with the show character. If anything the show has put a damper on the stannis love.

Stannis the mannis madness started right after ADWD. People love him because he is the only hope for defeating the Boltons and returning a stark to winterfell: plus, he's a really amusing character to read - skme of the best one liners in the books. Also Jon fans love him because he is fond of jon and on his side.

In a book series full of people fighting for the iron throne it's refreshong to see someone actually fighting the real threats in the north. I like that he's morally compromised, personally. If he was a great guy doing great things that would be boring.

His interactions are the most annoying of all characters in the books for me to read. And his and Jon's interactions were the worst. But of course it's a matter of taste.

[The Stags Man]

Reason one: When Stannis shows up in another POV character's story he is always kicking ass.

Catelyn Tully: Stannis shows up with a surprise army besieging a fortress just to get his brother to show up so they can talk it out.

Tryion: in kings landing, is certain he is going to lose the city because Stannis shows up with a huge fucking navy; even after nuking it Stannis is like "What? Just cross that bridge of fucking burnning ships this is just a bump in the road."

Jon: Ohhh god the wildlling are going to kill us all! Wait is that an army coming to save us? Is it Robb? Joffrey? The dead king Robert? No its fucking Stannis Stannis Stannis!

Asha: Is worried about Boltons and Wolfs coming to attack her when surprise its Stags! WTF just happened to me?

Reason two: Dry humor of legendary proportions see endless threads.

Reason three: Absolutely righteous man in a world of corrupted and greedy lords he is a king who wants to do justice. "They made my kingdom bleed and for that they will pay." or something like that. And for the Renly thing, in nearly every characters POV of Renly he comes of as a greedy dick, I mean he thought Roberts kids where legitimate and crowned himself any way. Plus that deal Stannis offered was very generous and was as good as Renly was going to get from any older brother in the world.

Last Reason: Stannis judges by worth not by birth see the existence of Davos Seaworth.

[Poodle Pup From Astapor]

The acting in the show is fantastic, however his bad points are still there. He uses blood magic, burns peoples gods etc the only time I've felt any compassion for Stannis is when he interacts with Shireen that shows he's at least human

Well, Dany does terrible things too, why do so many people like her? Ultimately, I think most people are ready to forgive characters some sins if they act / talk like good, normal people. And that's the main difference between books Stannis and show Stannis, he's not a whiny cocky prick in the show.

In the end, it's TV, people don't judge it quite like they do real life. People manage to love criminals in some movies, even though they wouldn't say helo to real life versions of those characters. It's just how it works.

[Bobby b's bobby]

He's amusing with his insults I'd say he's a good guy he also has some big flaws which I like in a character I'm rooting for and Davos.

[Fat Mac]

Ah, the weekly rendition of this thread.

First of all, why should I care that he murders his brother, or executes men by burning, or cheats on his wife? He's a literary character. The main qualification for me liking a literary character is for them to be interesting, not morally upstanding. Going by that, I could ask "why do people love Jon Snow?" because personally I find him to be one of the most dry and boring characters to ever cross the pages of a book.

And in regards to all the bad things about him posted in OP, you take context out of every one of them. Not everything Stannis has done is 100% justifiable, same with almost every other character. But taking context out of everything, you could make almost any other character look awful.

Personally I like Stannis because in the end I think he thinks he's trying to do what's right. Who cares if he bullies the NW? They owe their survival to him. Without the iconic "STANNIS! STANNIS! STANNIS!" moment, Jon Snow and all the others would be red stains in the snow. Most people didn't start liking Stannis until A Storm of Swords, and I think GRRM intended it to be this way. We're supposed to have a negative opinion of Stannis, and watch it get more positive as the books go on. Jaime is a similar case I'd argue. Of course, it's not going to be that way with everyone. Some people will always dislike Stannis, and that's ok, because some people will never change their opinion on a character.

[Red Typer of Dorne]

Reason one: When Stannis shows up in another POV character's story he is always kicking ass.

Catelyn Tully: Stannis shows up with a surprise army besieging a fortress just to get his brother to show up so they can talk it out.

Tryion: in kings landing, is certain he is going to lose the city because Stannis shows up with a huge fucking navy; even after nuking it Stannis is like "What? Just cross that bridge of fucking burnning ships this is just a bump in the road."

Jon: Ohhh god the wildlling are going to kill us all! Wait is that an army coming to save us? Is it Robb? Joffrey? The dead king Robert? No its fucking Stannis Stannis Stannis!

Asha: Is worried about Boltons and Wolfs coming to attack her when surprise its Stags! WTF just happened to me?

Reason two: Dry humor of legendary proportions see endless threads.

Reason three: Absolutely righteous man in a world of corrupted and greedy lords he is a king who wants to do justice. "They made my kingdom bleed and for that they will pay." or something like that. And for the Renly thing, in nearly every characters POV of Renly he comes of as a greedy dick, I mean he thought Roberts kids where legitimate and crowned himself any way. Plus that deal Stannis offered was very generous and was as good as Renly was going to get from any older brother in the world.

Last Reason: Stannis judges by worth not by birth see the existence of Davos Seaworth.

You make some good points, however there are also a couple of things that reinforce my view 'They made my KINGDOM bleed' why not people? Stannis is also not the first nor last lord to elevate someone based on deeds (eg the Cleganes and Bronn) granted Davos raises higher than most. But lastly, I can't deny his deeds but they don't make a good person, Napolean and Hitler were great battle commanders but they were also complete arseholes (understatement of the millennium)

[The Stags Man]

(You're right, flummoxes is a great word) But I am at a loss for why people seem to like him so much. I think the show has something to do with that (that applies to most of the characters really). While I agree that Stannis is the rightful heir and agree with his move to defend the Wall, I still do not like his personality, he makes some decent quips with his dry humor, though that is also blown out of proportion. He just whines and bitches about what is due him to much. Plus everything you mentioned.

One of the biggest things for me though are the 3 leeches, well one in particular.

Joffery - totally understandable, Stannis knew he was a bastard with no real claim to the throne. (as well as being a major piece of shit)

Balon - Stannis would know how he thinks and acts and already thought Robert was to soft on him the first time. Stannis would know Balon would no just surrendor, it would be a long fight, and in the end, Stannis would kill him anyways.

Robb - Here is the kicker, Stannis did not know Robb, he had no past with him to know how he thinks or why he is claiming the crown of the Kings of Winter (and now the Trident). He does not know that Ned knew the truth and tried to give the crown to Stannis. He did not know that Robb would have supported Stannis, had Robb known the truth about Joffery and Tommen and (IMO) would have put off the crown in order to save his people from more fighting. After all, Robb did not start the war as a war of independence or a war against Stannis, Robb's fight was with the Lannisters, as was Stannis. Given the chance, they could have made common cause and crushed the Lannisters.

Ahhh I've always wanted to debate the 3 leeches thing with someone; on my first read through I thought the exact same things. When he through Robb's leech into the fire I thought "NOOOOO! You heartless monster you should team up!" On the second re-read though I payed closer attention to how Stannis reacts.

The leech was twisting in the king’s grip, trying to attach itself to one of his fingers. “The usurper,” he said. “Joffrey Baratheon.” When he tossed the leech into the fire, it curled up like an autumn leaf amidst the coals, and burned.

Stannis grasped the second. “The usurper,” he declared, louder this time. “Balon Greyjoy.” He flipped it lightly onto the brazier, and its flesh split and cracked. The blood burst from it, hissing and smoking.

The last was in the king’s hand. This one he studied a moment as it writhed between his fingers. “The usurper,” he said at last. “Robb Stark.” And he threw it on the flames.

Stannis is a hard man, he rarely shows very much emotion so when reading his chapters I pay close attention to the little things to see inside his mind. When he throws Joffreys into the flames he doesn't change at all showing that this is a decision he has made long ago and is comfortable with, Joffrey is a bastard wrongfully sitting on the throne and must die. Balon is a man he clearly hates shown by his rising voice clearly he is a man Stannis thinks should have been killed the first time around. Then the moments hesitation before he throws Robbs into the flames, he is thinking the son of the Honorable Eddard Stark and someone I have no personal hatred to but in the end no different from Balon; as he throws it into the fire. I still scream no in my head every time I read it but I cant hate the man for it because it is totally reasonable way to think.

[The Stags Man]

You make some good points, however there are also a couple of things that reinforce my view 'They made my KINGDOM bleed' why not people? Stannis is also not the first nor last lord to elevate someone based on deeds (eg the Cleganes and Bronn) granted Davos raises higher than most. But lastly, I can't deny his deeds but they don't make a good person, Napolean and Hitler were great battle commanders but they were also complete arseholes (understatement of the millennium)

To Stannis My Kingdom and My People are the same thing in this context. A realm or kingdom are words often used to illustrate both the land and souls live inside it.

Here is the whole quote from earlier:

“I shall bring justice to Westeros. A thing Ser Axell understands as little as he does war. Claw Isle would gain me naught… and it was evil, just as you said. Celtigar must pay the traitor’s price himself, in his own person. And when I come into my kingdom, he shall. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. And some will lose more than the tips off their fingers, I promise you. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that.” King Stannis turned from the table. “On your knees, Onion Knight.”

[Snark_Tamer]

I sometimes cheer for Stannis and sometimes don't and think that is a good sign he is realistically drawn--flawed and mistake-making sometimes, but also consistent and predictable more than most. His ambition is bound in duty rather than greed and I think he is being used by Melissandre--she thinks he is someone (I think Dany is really who her visions fore initially--born in salt and fire, birthing dragons from stone).

I think though, what feeds into people LIKING him goes clear back to our love of Ned Stark and Ned saying Stannis was the rightful heir. And then he HAS done important things in the north--he is the hope at the moment, but because he is unbending, he will fall. Cooperation will be necessary eventually.

[Barrick Eddon]

It has nothing to do with the show character. If anything the show has put a damper on the stannis love.

Stannis the mannis madness started right after ADWD. People love him because he is the only hope for defeating the Boltons and returning a stark to winterfell: plus, he's a really amusing character to read - skme of the best one liners in the books. Also Jon fans love him because he is fond of jon and on his side.

In a book series full of people fighting for the iron throne it's refreshong to see someone actually fighting the real threats in the north. I like that he's morally compromised, personally. If he was a great guy doing great things that would be boring.

This . Except not all Jon fans love him , there are Jon's fans who dislike Stannis .

For me Stannis in ASOS was even better written then ADWD , GRRM made a fantastic job .

[Poodle Pup From Astapor]

Ahhh I've always wanted to debate the 3 leeches thing with someone; on my first read through I thought the exact same things. When he through Robb's leech into the fire I thought "NOOOOO! You heartless monster you should team up!" On the second re-read though I payed closer attention to how Stannis reacts.

The leech was twisting in the king’s grip, trying to attach itself to one of his fingers. “The usurper,” he said. “Joffrey Baratheon.” When he tossed the leech into the fire, it curled up like an autumn leaf amidst the coals, and burned.

Stannis grasped the second. “The usurper,” he declared, louder this time. “Balon Greyjoy.” He flipped it lightly onto the brazier, and its flesh split and cracked. The blood burst from it, hissing and smoking.

The last was in the king’s hand. This one he studied a moment as it writhed between his fingers. “The usurper,” he said at last. “Robb Stark.” And he threw it on the flames.

Stannis is a hard man, he rarely shows very much emotion so when reading his chapters I pay close attention to the little things to see inside his mind. When he throws Joffreys into the flames he doesn't change at all showing that this is a decision he has made long ago and is comfortable with, Joffrey is a bastard wrongfully sitting on the throne and must die. Balon is a man he clearly hates shown by his rising voice clearly he is a man Stannis thinks should have been killed the first time around. Then the moments hesitation before he throws Robbs into the flames, he is thinking the son of the Honorable Eddard Stark and someone I have no personal hatred to but in the end no different from Balon; as he throws it into the fire. I still scream no in my head every time I read it but I cant hate the man for it because it is totally reasonable way to think.

Either way, those names had to come from Mel. Unless we believe that Mel can kill people with some leeches, as opposed to she saw these deaths in the fire and decided to take credit.

[MyLittleFinger]

Stannis is one of the only main characters without a POV. Look at all the things our POV characters get away with because we know their rationalization of it. They justify it, feel good about it, or bad about it. We understand everything they do. How many times have people justified their terrible actions to themselves in POV? Practically every POV. We accept it, because we understand their reason since we are in their head. Bad or good, we know the real reason.

We have zero idea of why, what, how, who, when etc. Stannis is doing. We see all of his ideas, his moves and his mannerisms from other people. People think he is everything from a murderous religious zealot perverted usurper to the greatest gift the seven gods have given Planetos.

Why?

No POV. You can take his actions any way you want. That's why he is one of the best characters in the series. Why he is loved. Why he is despised. He is still open to interpretation with no influence telling you if he is good or bad. He is one of GRRM's greatest creations and greatest mysteries.

Choose for yourself whether you align with his actions, but to question why people like him is ridiculous. You might as well ask why people like the books, what with all the murder and rape going on.