Mafia Game 78 - Tales of the Malazan Book of the Fallen

[House Pommingham]

This all goes back to one thing. I was considered CI by almost everyone until I pointed out the strangeness around Sandy's death. Why would I endanger myself by doing so?

I know , but it's total WIFOM. You were only CI if Sandy was innocent. She didn't flip innocent. So it's fair to think that someone is going to reach the conclusion that you are not really CI without your comment. We seem to generally be a paranoid and intelligent group. So you preemptively pointing it out is great spin. But it really is WIFOM in any direction so I dunno.

[House Pommingham]

Ok, I just re-read Day 3 unSandy. If I had to pick someone that it most sounds like, I would pick Gruntle. This is undoubtedly influenced by QB's posts, but I got to say that I can see it somewhat with the short choppy sentences, the lack of capitalization, the occasionally missing period. It matches better than others.

Man this game is so crazy, and I have had Gruntle on the bottom of my suspect list this whole time, but frack it, I would vote him based on this. Would others? QB? Tehol?

ETA: I decided not to show quotes, but will dig them up if people want to see them, but probably better just to do an ISO read of Sandy and Gruntle side-by-side and let us know your thoughts.

[House Targaryen]

It is day 4.

8 players remain: Fiddler, Gruntle, Onos Toolan, Quick Ben, Silchas Ruin, Tehol Beddict, Toc the Younger, Yedan Derryg.

5 votes are needed for a conviction or 4 to go to night.

2 votes for Fiddler (Toc the Younger, Yedan Derryg)

2 votes for Toc the Younger (Fiddler,Tehol Beddict )

1 vote for Silchas Ruin (Onos Toolan)

3 players have not voted: Gruntle, ,Quick Ben, Silchas Ruin

[House Velaryon]

Any chance of a deadline extension. I don't even know if i'll have more than an hour on a computer. When i could post the board was down yesterday.

[House Baratheon]

Ok, I just re-read Day 3 unSandy. If I had to pick someone that it most sounds like, I would pick Gruntle. This is undoubtedly influenced by QB's posts, but I got to say that I can see it somewhat with the short choppy sentences, the lack of capitalization, the occasionally missing period. It matches better than others.

Man this game is so crazy, and I have had Gruntle on the bottom of my suspect list this whole time, but frack it, I would vote him based on this. Would others? QB? Tehol?

ETA: I decided not to show quotes, but will dig them up if people want to see them, but probably better just to do an ISO read of Sandy and Gruntle side-by-side and let us know your thoughts.

I think Gruntle did a fantastic job of coming across as too "chaotic" and silly/crazy early on in the game to really put a target on his back. He's been productive, if erratic, but seems he's been coasting on that early craziness since.

edited to remove unnecessary speculation

[House Frey]

I'm back.

I was talking about the use of '--' in their sentences. I can't find anyone else in the game that does that as well. But as I said in my last post, Sandalath did that twice on day 1. So it's a null tell.

I checked out the posts you quoted, and not to burst your bubble, but:

I have to leave. I probably won't be back in time---but I'll try.

Ok, I also have an announcement

I wanted to post at the start of day---bloody night took too long. :tantrum:

I am the Knight of High House Shadow (1-shot).

Yesterday was stressful as i had to stay under the radar after people called me innocent. I didn't want to be night killed before using my shot.

i am so dumb. I ALMOST chose Tohel last night; But he would be lynched anyway if he was FM.

People were starting to suspect Gruntle and Silchas, Gruntle could only be FM if Silchas was. I trusted Rakey, maybe he saw something in Silchas, so I used my shot on Silchas.

I got a result of "inactive" (I suck)

I thought Karsa was lying yesterday because of this. Healer/Diver/vig/finder is too much.

(Just popping in for a bit.)

Fiddler, I want to kill you right now.

Eh...I'm not sure that makes him innocent. After Onos tried the same gambit, and everyone VPI'd him, I could see it. And his explanations feel as though he's pulling them out of his ass. Particularly since he says it didn't occur to him that the ninja would kill him on the spot--that cuts both ways I'd

Ugh. I need to reread Yedem to see if his claim makes sense. And I think I've kind of skimmed over Silchas' (as well as Sandalath's) posts since they were "confirmed."

Honestly, at this point, my strongest scum read is by far Toc.

I really really don't know about Gruntle now. Goddammit.

I'll quote the post I thought sounded British when I got home.

@Onos: I don't know, maybe it's just me, but if I had a role like that, I'd be damn sure to make sure I knew how every aspect worked beforehand--particularly before making a wild roleclaim (which was apparently set up on Day Two). Who would make a claim like that only to go, "Whoops, it was just revealed in the thread that I'm a Faceless Man? I totally did not see that coming." Aaaaaaah. This would have been a terrible gambit regardless of Silchas' alignment. So many better things to do with a symp (counterclaim someone, fakeclaim healer to flush out the real one...)

Sandy uses '---' in all those posts. I use '--'.

That would have been a hilarious plot twist, though. :devil:

[House Targaryen]

Any chance of a deadline extension. I don't even know if i'll have more than an hour on a computer. When i could post the board was down yesterday.

I'll extend it to 6:30 p.m. central time. Can understand how the board downtime messed with people's ability to post.

And I'm not sure if this speculation is considered a no-no, but is it strange that Gruntle was replaced while Aspalar was just mod-killed?

Yeah, this speculation is not allowed. And for the record, I tried to replace Apsalar too, but couldn't find anybody.

[House Dalt]

QB I know. I posted a retraction immediately after I posted it. I was excited :(

[House Baratheon]

Yeah, this speculation is not allowed.

Okay, I've edited my post to remove this.

[House Targaryen]

From a seemingly empty sky, a dark dragon swoops down, the very essence of midnight surrounding his tall frame.

"My friends, I have a boon to you. You may ask of me any one wish, and I will grant it!"

As the players clamour to put words to their hopes, someone pips up with "We really need a Euromod!"

"Granted!" the Elder God booms as his shadowy form dissipates, coalescing back into a dragon, leaving you all staring, dumbfounded at such a poor choice of a gift.

Masonity will now be helping out with some vote counting and stuff!

[House Pommingham]

As the players clamour to put words to their hopes, someone pips up with "We really need a Euromod!"

I know that was you, Tehol. :thumbsdown: From now on you shall be known as A-hol.

ETA: And I for one welcome our new European overmods.

[House Pommingham]

QB, Tehol, still around? Thoughts on unSandy posting resembling Gruntle posting?

Toc? Fids? Yedan?

[House Dalt]

I know that was you, Tehol. :thumbsdown: From now on you shall be known as A-hol.

ETA: And I for one welcome our new European overmods.

Uh wtf?

I am here but on phone so no time for analyzation. I looked earlier and noticed the lower case sentences but as I said, those quirks are present on Sandys day 1 posts so not sure how helpful that is.

[House Pommingham]

@A-hol, was jk. You had asked for Euromod during one of the nights.

[House Stokeworth]

First off, apologies to Tehol. I was over the line.

1. Regardless of the Draconus' flavor, Sandy could be the same person who was on the account from the beginning. It's possible there is another twist that we're not thinking of, maybe recruitment for a day?

It's possible. It's essentially the same thing as being taken over, so still nullifies his actions later. I do think that whatever happened, Sandalath wasn't playing on our team at then end with his claim and the case on Karsa.

Can everyone please list who they are suspicious of, why they are suspicious of them and who their possible partners could be. If you've already done it, just link to the post. If you only have 1 possible combination, please assume one of them is innocent and look at another. I would like two possible combinations from everyone. We have roughly 10 hours to come up with a lynch.

Just ... stop. Not everyone plays the same way or has the same amount of time to give. I will contribute as I see fit, not what you think I should be doing.

His body was "dessicated" or rotted, which suggests it had been dead for some time. Since Sandy was still active and posting, but their body had been dead for a day or more, well, it just seems obvious to me. Maybe I read too much into the word "dessicated".

I tend to believe you, actually. If I recall, you did focus on the word dessicated, will have to check.

And I could have sworn I was voting Tehol. If I wasn't on paper, it was definitely in my heart.

[House Dalt]

Fine. I won't ask for anyone to participate to help figurethe game out. God forbid I get people to commit to opinions and searching out the FM :rollseyes:

[House Frey]

(Onos, I've been working on a post all this time.)

I'm also an RI.

This is so frustrating. Onos, I'm sorry. The weakest similarity I notice is between Sandalath's posting style and Gruntle's, but all in all, if someone's controlling Sandy, he's deliberately changing his style so as to play dumb. (The frustrating part is that I can see similarities with someone who isn't a living player in the game. And that's giving me paranoid thoughts about a seventeenth player who doesn't appear on the role list but can take people over. I'm not confident, though--usually I'm pretty damn sure of whom this player is.) I'm also embarrassed that I didn't notice the dashes. (I did notice the emoticons and lower-case letters, though.)

Maybe the difference I'd noticed in tone was just confirmation bias. I just feel like the diction as well as the kind of observations he's been making have dumbed down.

I don't know, am I just going completely crazy and second-guessing myself by saying that Sandalath seems to drop twenty IQ points each day? I mean, Day One case:

Since Karsa bothers me, I did a reread to try and find a solid reason why.

He comes in and places a RP vote on Trull, does another RP posts and 30 minutes after his first post, makes the one below:

I just can’t get past the idea of posting without reading your role. What I really feel is that he wants it on record that he has a role.

More RP; Then he has the post where he quotes all of Kalam’s posts and calls it:

2 things bother me about this: the list of quotes with just a comment about it’s general lack of content instead of individual comments, and 2) the almost “afterthought” of the Onos comment, with nothing to back it up.

For the most part, the rest of his posts are a combination of fluff and asking others questions. He agrees with Anomander Rake about Silchas being wishy-washy (a child of 10 would be wise enough to agree with that)

I definitely would lynch Karsa.

Day Two case:

I reread Gruntle this morning. Some things stand out:

Why would an innocent say this? An innocent would want to help us out. Also he didn't answer me when i asked how he knew this before.

He votes Anomander and me when Silchas is being wagoned. Dassem is just a compramise vote at that time, people werent certainly going to lynch him.

(This is a vote for an innocent instead of Dassem, but only I know that :P)

Look, the votes are 7 for Silchas, 3 for Dassem. They ask him to switch to Dassem.

Where is Dassem on that list?

But look what he says about Dassem:

He only switches to Dassem when he's almost tied with Silchas.

I want to reread other people, but for now I want to vote Gruntle. I don't like how people are ignoring him.

Day Three case:

Onos is bothering me somewhat. He said he knew Aspalar was inno on day one. How did he know this? Apsalar had done NOTHING!

He said he would lynch anyone on day one. Then why didn't he vote Dassem until late?

we all are saying he's inno because he claimed healer, but why can't an FM claim healer to get the true healer to reveal? I may be crazy, but I'm not ready to clear him yet.

All three cases seem to be padded with lots of quotes, and feel kind of similar in style. But am I just imagining that each case is increasingly weaker?

You know, I just thought of something. Maybe we're barking up the wrong tree with all the Faceless Man stuff, and Sandy was garden-variety recruited. That would explain the similarity in posting styles, but his deterioration in play.

That said, I have to point out this post, which makes me wonder if it's a shared account:

Blargh, sorry - i've been at the shops all day. Catching up now.

Leave aside the obvious Briticism of "shops." Firstly, we have the lower-case is again (Sandalath did use a lot of lower case letters when they should have been capitalized, so I can, but Tehol pointed out that it's never been is). (ETA: forgot this sentence.) Also, look at the lack of "---". Tehol was discussing the dashes, but this got me thinking. Why did Sandy's style inexplicably change for this one post?

See, this one sounds a lot like Gruntle. In fact, I almost wonder if he accidentally slipped and posted it from the Sandalath account. (But that makes no sense. I'll check posting times, but I'm pretty sure he was active all day, not "out at the shops.")

You know, I'm getting paranoid Tehol thoughts, just because I could kind of see him going, "Wow, if someone took over Sandalath, he's totally fucking awesome" in order to gloat. :P

Four hours before the lynch. Fuck, maybe I should stop trying to find who sounds like Sandy and decide who the hell to vote for instead.

[House Stokeworth]

Strange and stranger. I don't know what to make of Sandalath's demise. It could be poison, but would that explain why the body is in such a "dessicated" state? Would poison work like that? Sandy just disappears and then we find a hidden corpse? Something doesn't add up there. I think it has to do with the hidden role, but no clue what it might be beyond that.

I tried to point out that there was something odd about that reveal. Sandy disappears, then we find a "dessicated" body that had been hidden. Unless Sandalath was an illusion, that makes me think he had been dead for a few days and someone had been controlling him.

I am inclined to believe Sandalath's speculation here. There were several hours between these posts and he did focus on dessicated.

Something else that makes me feel well-disposed to Silchas is that he pulled out a quote from Yedan on night 1 where he directs the FM onto Onos. He bolsters Yedan's claim. Small things, but it helps him in my eyes.

Tehol, Fiddler

Gruntle, Silchas

Ben

Yedan, Onos

[House Stokeworth]

Fine. I won't ask for anyone to participate to help figurethe game out. God forbid I get people to commit to opinions and searching out the FM :rollseyes:

:bang:

Just because I am not searching the way YOU - Lord, God, Gift to Mafia - are searching for FM does not mean I am not searching.

[House Baratheon]

I've tried a reread on Sandy and got stuck on the following.

Day 2 he votes voices suspicion of Gruntle and votes for him.

I want to reread other people, but for now I want to vote Gruntle. I don't like how people are ignoring him.

Then he changes his vote to me, claiming if Gruntle is evil, I must be as well. If we're both evil, why change the vote at all?

God, I am so dumb sometimes. Gruntle could of just voted Silchas yesterday to protect Dassem.

Gruntle can't be evil unless Silchas is.

Ten minutes later he changes his vote to Karsa based on Day 1 thoughts, but what sticks out in my mind is his trying to tie me and Gruntle together.

He does it again during his role reveal:

People were starting to suspect Gruntle and Silchas, Gruntle could only be FM if Silchas was. I trusted Rakey, maybe he saw something in Silchas, so I used my shot on Silchas.

I got a result of "inactive" (I suck)

Tying me and Gruntle together. First as a possible FM team. Then, when he claims he cleared me, he uses that same justification to clear Gruntle:

In my notes, I have Silchas CI, QB VPI (Dassem + squirrel reasons), Gruntle PI because of Silchas.

And it nearly worked. When the gig was up and the ruse was discovered, whose head ends up on the chopping block or at the very least is moved back up to the top of Tier 1 at a time when two wrong lynches could mean a loss for the innocents? The guy he cleared. Meanwhile, it buys time for the guy he cleared by association. It's enough to make me change my vote to Gruntle.