ARYa_Nym Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Oh ok, my bad. :)It's fine. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Rayne Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Ehm technically Aegon is Jon's brother...and he's presumed dead. I mean Aegon Targaryan not Aegon Blackfyre the murmur's dragon.I was comparing Jon's thought processes to Sansa's. Since Jon thinks he's Eddard Stark's son, he thinks that Robb is his brother.Also Robb will always be Jon's brother regardless of what he learns of his parentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMary Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 That's different from being attracted to someone you've thought of as your sister for your entire life!!Exactly. The Westermarck effect seems to apply to children raised together in the same family/domestic grouping from early childhood (birth to age 6) whether they are blood relations or not. That certainly would apply to Jon and Sansa.On the other hand, cousins (or siblings) not raised together from early childhood can be sexually attractive to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Rider Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Exactly. The Westermarck effect seems to apply to children raised together in the same family/domestic grouping from early childhood (birth to age 6) whether they are blood relations or not. That certainly would apply to Jon and Sansa.Well, it certainly didn't apply to Theon and Asha and Theon was older then 6 when he left Pyke (10?), so I think we can discount this effect in the world of asoiaf.I also think we shouldn't mix up our own experiences of growing up with growing up in a household based on the Middle Ages. In such a household, day-to-day interaction between a boy and a girl, 3 years his junior would be very limited. They had vastly different interests, Jon with the fighting and other outdoor activities, Sansa with her sewing and dress-making and what not. :D I'm pretty sure they were not schooled together, because of the gender and age difference.Iirc they took their meals together at the high table, but I find it highly unlikely that Jon would sit beside Sansa, instead of Robb and Arya, the two siblings he was clearly the closest too. So they would know that they're related and have a family affection for each other, just like the one Jon has e.g. for Rickon who he probably also had little contact with. He surely wouldn't enjoy her condescending "poor Jon", especially coming from a younger girl, but being Jon he would think that such is his lot and not blame Sansa (much) for her behaviour.Sansa knows that they share a father, but that's very ambivalent. It makes him family, but still far beneath her. For Sansa his status held importance, but of course that doesn't prevent her from holding affection for him. She could also be bff with Jeyne Poole (who also belonged to the household of course) and I'm sure she liked Jeyne Poole, but she still considered her beneath her.Now all that might have changed and they could possibly see each other in a different light. I would ship them, were they not related. :blushing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitakon Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 What relationship? They have none except being half-siblings. Sansa hated his guts taking on after her mother. Sure they could go targaryen on each other but that will be left in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 It may not but again culture does play into it. Theon was disgusted when he found out it was Asha. Victarion first got aroused but then couldn't picture Asha as his wife because she was Balon's daughter and remembered her when she was little.How they were conditioned to see each other is a factor in the books. Jaime/Cersei are mentally disturbed and aren't a good example of anything. I mean they had sex in front of Joffrey's corpse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Rider Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 What relationship? They have none except being half-siblings. (...)And how exactly is being siblings not a relationship? Relationship doesn't necessarily imply sexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Rider Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 It may not but again culture does play into it. Theon was disgusted when he found out it was Asha. Victarion first got aroused but then couldn't picture Asha as his wife because she was Balon's daughter and remembered her when she was little.I agree. I wasn't arguing against the cultural conditioning, I was arguing against "the Westermarck-effect". The cultural norms are much more important imho then this effect that imho doesn't exist in asoiaf. Had Theon never found out who Asha was, he would have got it on with her, no questions asked. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I agree. I wasn't arguing against the cultural conditioning, I was arguing against "the Westermarck-effect". The cultural norms are much more important imho then this effect that imho doesn't exist in asoiaf. Had Theon never found out who Asha was, he would have got it on with her, no questions asked. :)Yes. He was away from her long enough to not know what she looks like. Sansa is a prettier version of Catelyn who is quite vivid for Jon since she almost played the role of evil stepmother but not really because she just ignored him. What happened with Theon and Asha shouldn't happen with Jon and Sansa. & he still calls her his sister as of ADWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitakon Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 And how exactly is being siblings not a relationship? Relationship doesn't necessarily imply sexual.I wasn't implying a sexual relationship. I was implying that Sansa hated his guts. And seeing as she is on the early teen age, she probably won't talk to Jon. How can you have a relationship when you think the other person doesn't exist? Sure you could go technical on me and say extreme hatred on your half-brother is a relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I wasn't implying a sexual relationship. I was implying that Sansa hated his guts. And seeing as she is on the early teen age, she probably won't talk to Jon. How can you have a relationship when you think the other person doesn't exist? Sure you could go technical on me and say extreme hatred on your half-brother is a relationship.Do you have any evidence in the text to support the idea that Sansa hated his guts or felt extreme hatred? I would say quite the opposite, actually. I don't think they were close but every time she thinks of him it is with love and fondness. She feels worry and sadness for him when she sees Yoren, she prays for him, and wishes that she could go see him. Jon also remembers her as well and has a memory of her once telling him to compliment a girl on her name advice he takes with Yigritte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Jon can name his son Robb. He just has to be quick about it and beat Sansa to it.I wasn't implying a sexual relationship. I was implying that Sansa hated his guts. And seeing as she is on the early teen age, she probably won't talk to Jon. How can you have a relationship when you think the other person doesn't exist? Sure you could go technical on me and say extreme hatred on your half-brother is a relationship.Sansa doesn't hate Jon tho :huh: . She thinks fondly of him and wishes to see him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg1982 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 There's going to be quite a few Robbs and Eddards in the Stark family tree in the next generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Jon and Sansa seemed to like each other well enough, although Sansa probably did not have a lot of respect for a literal lucky bastard.One of the positive consequences of her experiences with Cersei and Petyr Baelish is that she was disabused of any notions that Highborn people are somehow more honorable or more respectable than bastards such as Jon Snow. We know that explicitly because she thinks of Jon in kind and even grateful terms during her talk with Myranda Royce.I fully expect that if and when they meet again it will be a joyous experience for both, if perhaps a bit bittersweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Well I think It highly possibly jon was named after jon conningtonGRRM has confirmed that Jon is named after Jon Arryn, by Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starklinson Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 they were not very close when they were younger, but only because catelyn would instill her beliefs regarding bastards to sansa. however, when sansa is in vale, she begins to sympathize with jon and understand what it's like to be a bastard. she even thinks that "it would be so sweet to see him once again". her acceptance of him is a crucial part of her character development. jon also thinks of sansa and defends her position of power over winterfell. i think that they've matured past whatever made them separate as children and understand each other better. i think they would both be delighted to see each other again. also, their stories parallel each other a lot, and i believe it's done intentionally on GRRM's part. here are some links to analyses/appreciation pages regarding their relationship: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/102353-thoughts-on-jon-and-sansa/ http://itwouldbesosweet.tumblr.com http://swordinthedarkness.tumblr.com/post/19423444595/the-parallel-journey-of-jon-snow-and-sansa-stark http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/71779-foreshadowing-and-symbolism-in-sansas-snow-castle/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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