Why isn't Ned considered a great swordsman by those in Westeros?

[Summer is Ending]

:agree: I like what he says in the show about not fighting in tourneys so when he fights a man for real, they don't know what he can do.

We don't really hear anyone talked about as great warriors except for members of the Kingsguard and Targaryens. There are just a few others like the Mountain that are noted but the most well-known warriors are Kingsguard because of their celebrity status.

It was a good line but pretty silly considering the northmen spend just as much time in the yard practicing as anyone else.

[Pyrrhus of Epirus]

It was a good line but pretty silly considering the northmen spend just as much time in the yard practicing as anyone else.

A tournament is not the same as practicing in the yards with your own loyal men. At a tournament, people from all over the realm come to participate, thus you're more likely to be seen by people you'd rather not see you fight, like potential enemies, rival families, anything of the sort.

[Summer is Ending]

A tournament is not the same as practicing in the yards with your own loyal men. At a tournament, people from all over the realm come to participate, thus you're more likely to be seen by people you'd rather not see you fight, like potential enemies, rival families, anything of the sort.

So you think in all that time Robert and Kingslayer and the Hound and all those other men were in Winterfell Ned never practiced with them in the yard the same as he did with Bronze Yohn?

[Pyrrhus of Epirus]

So you think in all that time Robert and Kingslayer and the Hound and all those other men were in Winterfell Ned never practiced with them in the yard the same as he did with Bronze Yohn?

I don't know, I don't remember any indication that he had. If you have any references from the books indicating this, please do share.

[Melpomene]

Well, Ned was pretty much M.I.A for a good 15 years, tucking himself away up north.

He also never boasted about any achievements, unlike other fighters. Even after the events of ToJ, he was more solemn and quiet than proud and showy, and quickly left everything. Ned never seemed to be the type to care about image altogether in that way :dunno:

If anyone were to fuss over Ned about stuff like glory fighting to his face, he likely would just make a mumble, shrug it off, and note on the more important things in life.

[Summer is Ending]

I don't know, I don't remember any indication that he had. If you have any references from the books indicating this, please do share.

If there was a passage I'd have said so in the first place. It's just a matter of opinion. The amount of time people spend in the yard practicing their livelihood makes me think it's one of those things that happen that just isn't spelled out the same way as I don't think people in Westeros are lacking digestive tracks or bladders despite the fact no one ever seems to take a piss unless it serves a purpose in the plot.

[Pyrrhus of Epirus]

If there was a passage I'd have said so in the first place. It's just a matter of opinion. The amount of time people spend in the yard practicing their livelihood makes me think it's one of those things that happen that just isn't spelled out the same way as I don't think people in Westeros are lacking digestive tracks or bladders despite the fact no one ever seems to take a piss unless it serves a purpose in the plot.

To be fair though, Ned isn't exactly a Robert or Jaime, he's a lead from the rear type of man. I think this could easily contribute to him not being interested in drawing swords in the yards with men are arms. I mean since there's no evidence, we can't say for sure, we'll just have to use the information we're given and decide from that. My decision, no. He didn't.

[Artos Stark]

I just wonder why he isn't better with a sword than he is, it is also strange that he is as great of a commander that he is. As a second son he should be a great swordsman, meant to follow his older brother or father's orders and kill everyone, he likely would have trained night and day at that. As a second son he likely would have gotten leadership skills but nothing to the level of what he has now. Brandon on the other hand was a great swordsman but doesn't seem like a great leader.

First son - great swordsman

Second son - great commander

it just seems backwards to me.

[GimmeYoBurgahs]

It can't help that he was smashed down to the ground by Lyn Corbray when he visited winterfell...he was just average

[Summer is Ending]

To be fair though, Ned isn't exactly a Robert or Jaime, he's a lead from the rear type of man. I think this could easily contribute to him not being interested in drawing swords in the yards with men are arms. I mean since there's no evidence, we can't say for sure, we'll just have to use the information we're given and decide from that. My decision, no. He didn't.

Wrong. He's no Stannis or Tywin.

“The horse,” he answered at once. Again like his father; Ned would always take the more dangerous task himself.

Sansa thinking about Ned and Bronze Yohn in the yard.

Though his hair was grey and his face lined, Lord Yohn still looked as though he could break most younger men like twigs in those huge gnarled hands. His seamed and solemn face brought back all of Sansa’s memories of his time at Winterfell. She remembered him at table, speaking quietly with her mother. She heard his voice booming off the walls when he rode back from a hunt with a buck behind his saddle. She could see him in the yard, a practice sword in hand, hammering her father to the ground and turning to defeat Ser Rodrik as well.

[The Last Warden]

GRRM said it himself in the Tolkein vs. GRRM interview, Ned wasn't a fighter, he was a commander and a leader. Imagine a Westerosi Marcus Aurelius, that's Ned Stark.

[KingOfTheRats]

Damn right he knew. That's why he got right the fuck up off the throne when Ned gave him the eye.

YES!

[Artos Stark]

It can't help that he was smashed down to the ground by Lyn Corbray when he visited winterfell...he was just average

Bronze Yohn Royce. He also crushed Ser Rodrik as well

[Artos Stark]

Wrong. He's no Stannis or Tywin.

“The horse,” he answered at once. Again like his father; Ned would always take the more dangerous task himself.

Sansa thinking about Ned and Bronze Yohn in the yard.

Though his hair was grey and his face lined, Lord Yohn still looked as though he could break most younger men like twigs in those huge gnarled hands. His seamed and solemn face brought back all of Sansa’s memories of his time at Winterfell. She remembered him at table, speaking quietly with her mother. She heard his voice booming off the walls when he rode back from a hunt with a buck behind his saddle. She could see him in the yard, a practice sword in hand, hammering her father to the ground and turning to defeat Ser Rodrik as well.

He definitely doesn't lead from the rear like Stannis or Tywin, he leads his men into battle. That being said, I'd still take Ned over either of those guys as a Lord or Commander. That guy just inspires his people.

[MagnusPrime]

Because a lord doesn't have to be the greatest fighter just good enough to defend himself.

The Ned may have been an able warrior but when held in regard to Jaime, Barristan, Loras, and others he is just average for a lord.

Maybe the lack of different partners to spar with in the North could potentially hurt the developmentof his skills. But when living in the Vale he could have fought against many different opponents and developed skills that would have helped him.

[Artos Stark]

Because a lord doesn't have to be the greatest fighter just good enough to defend himself.

The Ned may have been an able warrior but when held in regard to Jaime, Barristan, Loras, and others he is just average for a lord.

Maybe the lack of different partners to spar with in the North could potentially hurt the developmentof his skills. But when living in the Vale he could have fought against many different opponents and developed skills that would have helped him.

Ned didn't have to be a great swordsman, he is twice the man as any of those that you named. There are partners to spar with in the North, it just isn't something that Ned saw as being important. The North has bigger issues to worry about, the South is more known for the boasting knights.

BTW since when is Loras close to Jaime or Barristan's level? I put him more on Jon Snow's level, actually I think Jon would beat him.

[Fire Eater]

Ned was an average swordsman. He wasn't as talented or determined as say Barristan or Jaime. He didn't fight Arthur Dayne alone, he said Dayne would have killed him if it weren't for Howland Reed. Maybe it was Reed who killed Dayne instead of Ned. The ToJ incident wasn''t something that Ned liked to talk about.

[Hear Us Roar]

People know Ned's fighting ability from the war. All the men who saw him fight know he could not have killed Dayne single handedly. Besides Ned is not a fighter.

[MagnusPrime]

The North has a lower population density than the southern kingdoms and coupled with its size it was probably very rare for them to have their bannermen visit. So outside of siblings, wards, or men at arms the Stark children would actually not have a very diverse group of opponents to spar with.

A nice way for the Lords of Winterfell to develop a large strong core of trained soldiers for the defense of the North would be to start a military academy. Have the sons of his bannermen come to Winterfell and train with no only his sons and men-at-arms but other young men from across the kingdoms.

[Artos Stark]

The North has a lower population density than the southern kingdoms and coupled with its size it was probably very rare for them to have their bannermen visit. So outside of siblings, wards, or men at arms the Stark children would actually not have a very diverse group of opponents to spar with.

A nice way for the Lords of Winterfell to develop a large strong core of trained soldiers for the defense of the North would be to start a military academy. Have the sons of his bannermen come to Winterfell and train with no only his sons and men-at-arms but other young men from across the kingdoms.

Brandon was supposedly a great swordsman and I imagine Benjen is no slouch. The North has TONS of people and a lot of war vets to spar with, they are trained from a young age just like anyone from the south.

I have thought for a long time that the north could use a military academy but that would be to train an elite fighting force, if bannermen wanted to send their second sons that would be fine.