Nothing Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 The presented parameters of the Wall are 700 feet (210 m) high, 300 miles (480,000 m) long and at the top 12 horses can walk side by side (say 16 m with edges and battlements), at the base it can be 50 meters wide (estimate). Let's say the underground base and the first 20 meters of the height laid Bran the Builder with COTF: "Magic, motherfuckers!" For the later builders therefore remained about 2,918,400,000 m3 of ice to pile up - with repairs and replacements say 3 billions. Construction can take place only during the winter to use the ice from the lakes. Builders had 8000 years; the winter could last about a quarter of that time - 2000 years. That makes 1,500,000 m3 per winter year or 4110 m3 per day.Is that even possible? Let's compare with some great buildings of mankind: The Great Pyramid of Giza is about 2.6 m3 millions of stone. Construction time is estimated at 30 years, which means they built only 240 m3 per year. Stone blocks, although heavier, more difficult to shape and probably carried from a considerably longer distance, but still – in comparison with the brave men of the Night’s Watch, the Egyptian slaves were slackers not whipped enough. Much more comparable deal is the Great Wall of China, which is about 0.4 billions m3 of stone (clay, sand) and more difficult contruction - inside tunnels, guard-towers. It took about 200 years, or 2,000,000 m3 of material per year, 5480 m3 per day - slightly more than for the Wall, but we can assume it employed more people and there were less adverse conditions (not freezing).Or look at the Wall this way: If there worked 2,000 men, each of them had to pile up 2 m3 of ice per shift. Because it was a professional teamwork, it does not seem unrealistic - if there was enough material in the lakes. The ice refreezes when pilling up, which facilitated the construction. Of course, some auroch-yoke and mammoth-mahouts might be useful.So my conclusion is: Building the Wall was arduous, but possible. Hence there remains only one final question: Why the hell? The Night’s Watch in the first centuries after the Long Night was probably trying to improve the Wall as quick as possible if the zombies could be marching again. But why should not stop at, say 100 meters - in 5000 BL, when the only real danger were some savages with stone axes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Wolfwalker Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 From a numbers standpoint...By the time we see the Wall 8,000 year have gone by from it construction. Their numbers have dwindled to less than a thousand now, in that time. What was it 8,000 years ago, reversing the numbers of your logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Well, the Frostfangs are Himalaya-like in stature, according to Martin.The Hightower is many times the height of the real Pharos lighthouse.The Great Pyramid in Meereen is twice the height of the Great Pyramid of Giza.Krakens are big enough to pull ships under.Gregor Clegane is almost 8 feet tall.Westeros is many times the size of normal Medieval kingdoms.Westeros's history goes back a massive 8000 years.Conclusion: Martin likes going to extremes, and I like the fact that he likes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sansa Stark Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 From a numbers standpoint...By the time we see the Wall 8,000 year have gone by from it construction. Their numbers have dwindled to less than a thousand now, in that time. What was it 8,000 years ago, reversing the numbers of your logic?Indeed, I think we can safely say that thousands more have worked to get the Wall done. When thousand is considered 'not so much' or even ''grievously under-strength'', then 10.000 isn't that far a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sansa Stark Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Well, the Frostfangs are Himalaya-like in stature, according to Martin.The Hightower is many times the height of the real Pharos lighthouse.The Great Pyramid in Meereen is twice the height of the Great Pyramid of Giza.Krakens are big enough to pull ships under.Gregor Clegane is almost 8 feet tall.Westeros is the many times the size of normal Medieval kingdoms.Westeros's history goes back a massive 8000 years.Conclusion: Martin likes going to extremes, and I like the fact that he likes it.Where would we be without extremes in fantasy series? ;) I mean, the family histories for example, also date back thousands of years. That's cool, man. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothing Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Indeed, I think we can safely say that thousands more have worked to get the Wall done. When thousand is considered 'not so much' or even ''grievously under-strength'', then 10.000 isn't that far a stretch.Well, we can only estimate: There are 19 strongholds at the Wall, say 2000 men per each. If the third of them were builders, that means nearly 13,000 builders if the Night's Watch has ever been fully manned. I did not doubt it's possible, I am just trying to imagine it. I think it's bloody cool at the Wall :ninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chequered Raven Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I think you make a big mistake if you take real-world-measures into a fantasy-novel.Start with the fact, that we don't know if Bran the Builder has built the Wall...With the help of giants - well, how strong is a giant? How much work can he do daily? I can't say, I have never met one...Uuuh, and there are rumors about magic involved...We may guess - but it's all arrows into the dark... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not a kneeler Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 George Martin does numbers the same way that I plant grass seed. Liberally. He has said that he wishes he had made the wall 400 feet taall. Too late to go back. This is a fantasy novel, or novels, and we can't hold these books to the same standards that we would science fiction where such parameters should hold together.Many of us study other aspects of these book, heraldry, history, color symbolism ( my thiing) and chronollogy. My sympathies for anyone trying to make a timeline, because there the numbers must make sense. And they probably do but I didn't want to try to figure it out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor227 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Prior to the coming of the Targs, the Night's Watch had quite the large army, and had the entire Gift manned to support it. Aemon talks about Harren the Black's brother commanding ten thousand swords when Harrenhall burned, but not marching out of duty, which would have meant many more stewards as well for support, to say the least of the peasant population of the Gift, which wouldn't have anything else to do during winter anyway. Manpower certainly wasn't a problem for the Watch back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riptide Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Well, the Frostfangs are Himalaya-like in stature, according to Martin.The Hightower is many times the height of the real Pharos lighthouse.The Great Pyramid in Meereen is twice the height of the Great Pyramid of Giza.Krakens are big enough to pull ships under.Gregor Clegane is almost 8 feet tall.Westeros is many times the size of normal Medieval kingdoms.Westeros's history goes back a massive 8000 years.Conclusion: Martin likes going to extremes, and I like the fact that he likes it. :agree:In my upcoming parody of aSoIaF, everything is scaled down heaps. Westeros is Britain and the Wall is Hadrian's wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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