Sarella the Sphinx Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 This is about the show, but it’s specifically for readers of the books.What is the deal with all the moth imagery around Sansa? It seems like she’s almost always wearing something with a moth on it. In the first season she’s often wearing a moth pendant necklace… she wears a different moth necklace in season three. In season two she wears (many times) a massive moth ring. It’s so big it’s really hard to miss. And then I noticed in season three, in a few episodes, she wears a gown with moth clasps running down the front. Those are the three that jump out at me, but I’ll bet there are others.I highly doubt it’s a fashion statement. And it’s just too random to actually be random. If it’s meant to be symbolic (and I think it is) what does it symbolize? I’m always picking up on little things they highlight in the show because I think they could easily be foreshadowing the books. We know D&D are privy to some significant plot details that haven’t even been written by GRRM yet. And they do such a good job of foreshadowing things that we’ve already seen come to pass in the series.On one level, there’s the obvious “moth to the flame” connection, which could symbolize a number of things. Naïveté. Sansa being so dazzled and drawn in to the grandeur of King’s Landing, not knowing what kind of misery awaits her. All of her “white knight” fantasies juxtaposed with the harsh reality of the Hound (who is, incidentally, marked by fire). But it also implies not knowing what’s good for you. Behaving irresponsibly, foolishly, rashly. And I don’t think any of those things fit Sansa – particularly as the series progresses. If anything, Sansa’s quite astute at keeping herself alive and flying under the radar.Anybody have some thoughts on this?Some photographic evidence:The necklaces:http://images6.fanpo...87-1024-576.jpghttp://images6.fanpo...061-720-416.jpgThe ring:http://images5.fanpo...267-500-650.pngThe clasps:http://images6.fanpo...5-2720-4080.jpg(same clasps, different dress)http://images6.fanpo...9-1400-2100.jpgAs an aside, I’ve done a search (courtesy of my Kindle) and found moths mentioned in the books a few times. It’s often used in connection with life and death. “Our lives are little more than the flicker of a moth’s wing to [the Undying],” Pyat Pree tells Danaerys. (She repeats this phrase to herself later.) Shae’s breath “became moths fluttering about his face” as Tyrion strangles her. When “Mance” is burned by Stannis, Jon describes him “flutter[ing] like a burning leaf, like a moth caught in a candle flame”. Davos reminisces that the years “went dancing by like moths around a flame”. The Greenseer tells Bran that “certain moths live their whole lives in a day” yet to them it must seem like years, and that “season pass in the flutter of a moth’s wing”. And the very first mention of a moth is the most interesting on to me. When Ned is delirious in the dungeons, he sees Robert take off a mask to reveal that he’s actually Littlefinger and “when he opened his mouth to speak, his lies turned to pale grey moths and took wing.” So lots of life and death imagery, I guess is what I’m getting at. Which is not to say that it has anything at all to do with the moth imagery in the show. I just thought it was interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Those are not moths, they are dragonflies.This thread should help you out: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/90236-book-spoilers-discussing-sansa-iv/#entry4632446 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Those are not moths, they are dragonflies.This thread should help you out: http://asoiaf.wester...v/#entry4632446And is there any explanation for that?Can dragonflies be warged? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 And is there any explanation for that?Can dragonflies be warged? :)No, only wolves can be warged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarella the Sphinx Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Those are not moths, they are dragonflies.This thread should help you out: http://asoiaf.wester...v/#entry4632446I glanced over the link... what makes you say dragonflies? I'll admit, the first necklace does look like a dragonfly (I had never considered it)... but the others don't. Certainly not the ring, which I know is Hawk Moth (a la Silence of the Lambs)... http://www.lucysylvester.co.uk/catalog/product.php?CI_ID=40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarella the Sphinx Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 No, only wolves can be warged.But... doesn't Orell warg an eagle...? And Varamyr Sixskins a human? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 No, only wolves can be warged.Skinchanged, sorry! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I glanced over the link... what makes you say dragonflies? I'll admit, the first necklace does look like a dragonfly (I had never considered it)... but the others don't. Certainly not the ring, which I know is Hawk Moth (a la Silence of the Lambs)... http://www.lucysylve...ct.php?CI_ID=40Dragonflies are all over her clothing. There have been some essays on them in the past, but I can't remember where they are now. There's an article out there somewhere too talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 But... doesn't Orell warg an eagle...? And Varamyr Sixskins a human?Warging = wolvesSkinchanging = any other animalsBut since "warg" sounds cooler and easier, people tend to use the term for everything. But technically it's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 But... doesn't Orell warg an eagle...? And Varamyr Sixskins a human?Warging and skin changing are two separate things although they tend to get used interchangeably at times.Skin changing is the ability to assume control of any animal, not just a wolves. A warg is limited to wolves.ETA: Ninja'd by Dany the Mad Queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Here are some posts from the PTP thread that might help, Sarella:http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/80323-from-pawn-to-player-rethinking-sansa-xviii/page__st__280#entry4169085http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/68726-from-pawn-to-player-rethinking-sansa-iv/#entry3299761 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarella the Sphinx Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Well, I guess I've been enlightened. Did some googling and came across an interview with Sophie Turner where she says that her costumes were so intricate "[e]ven the corset that I wear underneath my clothes at King’s Landing that you never see has beautiful dragonflies embroidered on it!"Wish I had known this before I started theorizing! Back to the drawing board I guess! I've never read the Dunk and Egg stories, but it looks like there's definitely some significance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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