Wunhopkuendo

Perhaps, but we will most likely never know as Stannis will come in and save the day.

1. Did the battle need to be 3-4 minutes longer? What would more minutes gain us that the battle we had didn't? 2. I don't know why Mance did that other than to make a signal and perhaps scare the shit out of the wall. Maybe there were no animals left in that part of the woods. That could explain what took so friggin long to build the fire in the first place. I mean the advanced Tormund party had plenty of time to scale the wall and pillage the villages south of the wall while Jon had time to carry out the Craster's Keep raid. What was Mance doing all that time? 3. I think you weren't paying attention to the whole scene there. Did you not notice that Sam and Pyp kept popping up from cover to fire and then go back down? Pyp was hit on the way up, while Sam took care of him behind cover. 4. My guess is that they only had so many barrels and the best effect would be to hit them with the burning barrels while the mammoth was chained to the gait. Better chance of more casualties that way. No one would have know that the giant would be so angered by the loss of his friend(mate?) that he could lift the gate alone. Or perhaps it's a really long way down and hard to see details. 5. Someone else covered this well, but I'll just add that we don't know for sure if he intends to suicide kill Mance just because he says so to Sam. Perhaps he feels like he is the only one who can parley with Mance since he knows him (ordered to in the books). So he'll try to get Mance to agree to some sort of truce, by time for the wall to recoup their losses, and try to assassinate Mance if all else fails. It's a desperate play no doubt, but as he says the will all die either way so it's a chance worth taking.

Wait a minute. So you didn't actually watch the show, but rather clips on youtube and read discussion here? Ah that really does make you some kind of authority on this episode eh? You're the kind of audience that no one should take seriously and whose comments should be ignored out of hand. Even the show writers, if they cared what the audience had to say post episodes, wouldn't give a shite about anything you had to say because you aren't even a customer at this point. So just do everyone a favor and disappear.

I can see your point here, but I have to disagree with handling Stannis' saving the wall the same as Tywin saving KL. For one thing, I can't possible handle the "I told you D&D hate Stannis" fallout that would bring about. I know some on here think that it's all a conspiracy to make Stannis into this villain because they hate him and think he is a republican yada yada yada. I couldn't stand Stannis when I was reading the books until he came to the wall. Before then I just thought he was this butt hurt middle child that never got enough attention despite claiming to be this great warrior that lost every battle and constantly needed to be bailed out. After the wall is when I began to see Stannis as more than that and possibly a great leader. I'm starting to think he's back to being a sniveling whiny little bitch again after ADWD, but that's a topic for another debate. Anyway, I really think people should reserve judgment on how they handle Stannis' crowning moment until it actually happens rather than being pissed that it didn't already happen the way they wanted it to.

Anecdotal for sure, but my non-reader wife kept saying "When is Stannis coming to the rescue?" during the whole battle. I asked her why she thought he was coming to bail out Jon and she mentioned the whole iron bank money and mercenary stuff from past episodes, so yeah people are getting it. Now that the battle is over and Jon is going to try to parlay with or kill Mance she thinks Stannis won't come. I can't wait until next week when he does rescue the wall and she'll probably say something like "I knew he would come to the rescue!" Haha

I mostly agree with what you wrote here and feel the same about Jon, both in the book and the show. If anything, I actually like the show version just a bit better, as he has evolved a little faster than the book version had at this point. I will disagree with you in regards to Stannis' arrival, though. In fact, I had to skip over 50 or so pages due to the same lame complaint of no Stannis. The Stannis fans want it all. They want him to be portrayed as he is in the books, yet fail to see any of his faults. They want the store to be like the books, yet complaint when he doesn't come to the rescue before he did in the books. As neither a Stannis fan, nor a Stannis hater, I want to see him get his due, which in my opinion the wall scene was perhaps his only shining moment in the series. To throw in a quick five minute rush job of him coming to the rescue would not have the effect that I hope the finale will have of him really saving the wall and shining a bright light on him. We'll see, but I think it will turn out better this way.

I am not usually one to overly nitpick, but this has to be the single worst post I have ever seen on these boards. I don't think one single sentence managed to make it into a spell check, much less display any attempt at proper grammar. I couldn't even read it enough to formulate an opinion on what you wrote. I might disagree with you, or I might think you're a genius, but we'll never know because I can't decipher it enough to understand a single thought.

Yes. As for the kidnapping of Bran, why wouldn't he? Bolton sent Locke to "hunt" for Bran and Rickon. I don't recall him saying to kill them. It fits in with the book Roose's MO by having a Stark to keep the north at bay. If he didn't need a live Stark then what was the whole fake Arya plot about? Having a live Bran and/or Rickon as hostages will keep the North from rallying behind someone else. Now about getting a crippled Bran over the wall, well maybe he hadn't thought that far ahead.

Haha. Farmer: Damnit, where does all this garbage and dead bodies keep coming from?

Yes afterward. Of course you can't tell during the events because you don't get the information until after. And for the "hole" notion of Robb's infatuation (not sure if this was an intentional pun or not), that isn't the contrived part. It is all the information we get after the fact that feels contrived. The RW scene works in the books because you get so little information; you really only get Cat's POV in regards to Robb. After the fact is when you get all the pieces and it starts to feel a bit contrived. On screen, it would be doubly so. Anyway, in my own personal anecdotal experience, the book purists are people who have come to the books relatively recently. I read the first book when it came out, back before many on here even knew how to read. If you are one of those like me that waited patiently for years upon years between books and are still a book purist, more power to you. The GRRM is a god fascination wore off for me long ago. I'm just elated that I get to see one of my favorite stores shown on screen. So much so that I am willing to overlook character and plot changes that often work for the better. Let's not forget that GRRM has worked and continues to work on this show. If you have ever written anything in your life (not you specifically) then you know that often times you wish for a do-over. GRRM in many ways is getting that.

We know that, but no matter how well they were to try to tell that to the audience, it would not have come off that way. Look at all the "Talisa is a spy" theories abound this season. Rather than a gift that fell in Tywin's lap, the whole ordeal would appear as if Tywin planned it all.

I'm not singling you out as a book purists. If you are or aren't one, good for you either way. It's my opinion that the hatred for Talisa comes most vehemently from book purists with an axe to grind. I mean the show is far from perfect and I, like you, started to get bored in season two with the complete flatness of Dany and Jon (although in all fairness I felt this way with their book counterparts at the time). There is actually quite a bit of changes to complain about, if one were so inclined. But bitching about the switch to Talisa, someone that Robb falls in love with because of the wit/charm/beauty he sees in her, from Jeyne, a mere plot device to get Robb to the RW, is where I see the short-sightedness. And on Oona, maybe I give her acting a pass due to that really fine ass. I am still a red blooded man after all.

Yeah, you didn't put any words in my mouth there. Of course I was fooled at the RW, and threw my book against the wall like everyone else did. It was the afterward of the events where it came about as a silly plot line. In the book, it comes together a little better than it would have for television though. In the show, it looks like Tywin puts together a brilliant betrayal since he can't beat Robb on the field of battle, hence the change of Lannisters send their regards. Changing it to look like he is omniscient enough to know that Robb will fall hook line and sinker for his convoluted plot is really contrived. But that's just my opinion. Far from an emotional response directed at you over such wittiness in your "no more than a few posts."

You don't think the "ahahaha you didn't know that your wife's mom was in on the betrayal the whole time! Tywin played you perfectly knowing you would fall in love with the first pretty face you saw that was around to tend to your wounds, would have sex with her, would marry her to preserve her honour, and would fall prey to a butt hurt Walder Frey!" And yet somehow Tywin still gets out maneuvered in each battle against Robb? Yeah that would have come off really well. No amount of charisma could fix that convoluted storyline. I agree with you that Talisa didn't have a lot of charisma, or at least wasn't written as such seeing how the actress had it a few short instances. But to say that her storyline is worse, especially for television, than the original is a bit of a short-sighted book purism in my opinion. Not everything GRRM writes is gospel. In fact, he isn't even all the great of a writer. His one trick pony is that he is willing to kill off his/your favorite characters at will. As you can see from the last two books, that isn't enough to carry an entire series. I really hope he has a few more tricks up his sleeve for the final two books.

I really love all the anecdotal evidence for why the show sucks, and yet the viewership continues to grow to epic proportions. While viewership is obviously not a legitimate judge of quality, neither are all the so called book fans that continue to leave by the droves and yet somehow still manage to annoy those of us that enjoy the show with their incessant whining about how terrible it is. And for all the people that hate the whole Talisa storyline, I'm am so thankful they did something, anything, other than the Westerling contrivances. That plot was silly in the books, but would have come off as horrible television.

Maybe they filmed Lady Stoneheart resurrection at the same time as Bran's dream with her in the tree. She did already look the part in that sequence

Did you see how hard Cat slapped him? He probably had to go change himself after that bitch slap. I also was expecting to see Roose stab Rob in the back and have a sword come out the other side, but that is really and unnecessary special effect that costs money, whereas stabbing in the chest costs nothing and gets the same point across. I was expecting Jaime Lannister instead of Lannister's, but I am guessing that the writers/directors felt that the fan base had just jumped on board with Jaime redemption and didn't want everyone to think he had anything to do with the RW. It will be difficult to follow that arc if the tv fans keep thinking "I still hate you because you killed Rob!"

I think that would have come off as cheesy. It's one thing to look like someone else, but another to actually use the same actor. Viewers would be wondering if he was a twin, or if this was days of our lives. As for sneaking up on Dany, well that was also done for the viewers' benefit. The last scene we see is the three of them discussing who was going to sneak up on the tent and kill her. Then we see him sneaking up on the tent and what appears to be trying to kill her. The audience gets nervous, but then excited that Dany has a new (and good looking) ally as well as what, 8000 soldiers? Yay! Happy television for all.

Maybe I was reading too much into this, but I took the scene about the Lamb with Stannis as she intended to kill Gendry. In the follow up where she seduces him, she makes a comment to Stannis regarding just using his blood instead to provide proof to Davos. Anyone else get that?

That is precisely what I (we) mean. The spear is perhaps the oldest weapon if you don't count the rock since the rock is natural and the spear requires at least a little constructing. The spear was primarily a hunting weapon, though. As civilizations got larger and more domesticated, it sort of ceased to exist, at least for the populace, and was replaced with farming implements. So its reintegration into society came because of warfare rather than out of a need to hunt again. Bows are certainly a better hunting tool, but take far too long to train an entire army to use. And a pitchfork is much clumsier of a weapon than a simple spear. So perhaps I should have said re-invention rather than invention.

Everyone else sucks was a joke, but somewhat true. When you get to the skill levels of a Silva, there really is only a nominal difference between fighters. Kind of like baseball. The difference between a .250 hitter and .300 hitter is a mere 25 hits over a season, and yet one is an all star and the other is heading back to AAA. Still, the .250 hitter is among a very elite group of players that millions of kids dream about being. Not quite sure where I was going with this, but I am sure it was intended to mean something. Steel is obviously denser than wood, but a steel sword may not be as dense as a wooden sword. A steel sword needs to be strong but also very light, whereas a wooden sword needs to be strong and comprised of strong and cured woods that won't break easily. Again, it is much like a baseball bat. They can and do break, but not as often as would happen if they weren't made out of proper woods and along the grain. Now think of a steel bat (not aluminum). It would have to be very thin in order to not be too heavy to swing. The balance between weight and thickness would probably make it not nearly dense enough to be an effective tool for hitting a ball. Unless of course you are the mountain. Then all bets are off. You are absolutely right about the sword requiring dedicated warriors. The training is very intense and takes years to accomplish. That is why the spear is the one weapon that in my opinion is the most important invention in the history of warfare. It is really easy to use, requires less training due to its length and intuitive nature required to utilize it, is very inexpensive to mass produce, and works as an equalizer against pretty much any form of melee combat. Instead of having trained knights do all the fighting, you can now conscript peasants and still have a force that can fight without being a mere nuisance to the opposing knights.

You can add me to that list of martial artists. Hell, I probably have more time under my belt than most posters here have on this planet. I am also a former Army Ranger and I remember having a conversation with a Navy Seal in regards to fighting prowess. He said, "you do realize that it isn't that we are so fucking good, it is just that the rest of the world fucking sucks!" Syrio would not be able to pull off the moves he did against multiple attackers (was it four?) if they were trained nearly as well as he is. I also don't quite understand why people believe that wood is far less superior than steel in a fight against armored knights. The only advantage that steel swords would have is their ability to piece objects. Their cutting edges are all but useless against armor and their blunt ability would be less than wood due to the lack of density. Swords aren't made nearly as thick or else they would be way too heavy to wield, thus there is a certain amount of give that wood won't have. So getting hit upside the helmeted head with a steal sword is not going to do more damage than getting the same treatment from a wooden training sword.

Right? I mean what the fuck do people think a scout is doing if not counting? Jesus already. He doesn't have to be the Count on sesame street in order to be obviously counting troops, weapons, tents, formations, etc. This is a scouts primary job. Some people's children I tell ya. And enough already about the wooden sword and armor. Have any of you ever gone hiking in the woods with a heavy pack and tripped? I know no one will ever admit to losing those cool points on something that happened out of plain site, but answering in your head isn't it pretty hard to get back up right away. Now double or triple the weight and have it all over your body. Syrio doesn't need to knock people out with a rap on the head. He just needs to get them off their feet to incapacitate them. He will eventually lose the fight unless he takes the opportunity to run, but his goal is to provide Arya with a head start, not to stand toe to toe with half a dozen armor plated soldiers. He accomplishes this feat, does he not?