Aleenys

  That would be a better ending for him than many, but I would really want to see him dead after the way he fucked over the Stark family. Another theory I despise is at the time he is overthrown/killed by Sansa, he will absurdly feel proud and gloat over her becoming better to outwit him, even in a small way that caused his downfall. I don't want to see him die proud, I want him to despair and be in denial. That would be satisfactory and alas, I don't know if we'll get that.   And another one I despise is him being defeated by Tyrion after the setup of their rivalry in the first three books. No, I don't want Tyrion to take the credit for his defeat and look better in the eyes of Sansa. That would make me quite angry. A Stark should get the better of him if anyone.   About SR, yes I would like to see him live as well. So many people give up on him easily and call him annoying, but his faulty upbringing in his short childhood years was on Lysa and there's a chance with good fostering he could become a good lord. He is somewhat spoiled but again, thanks to Lysa. I really hope Sansa wakes up about what's going on and does something about it soon. The Vale storyline is going to be something in TWoW.

I agree that it would be anticlimactic for LF to be dispensed right away, that's why I expect it to happen towards the end of TWoW but not the next book. But meanwhile, it's undeniable that we're getting signs that LF's plans can go wrong from the sample chapter and many facts we've gathered from the last two books. Maybe he will recuperate from an unexpected event, but he won't be able to recuperate when things start to get too messy.

  There was that fake Tysha theory going on not too long ago, but it seems shaky to me. Sansa has to present herself for an annulment to happen and she's wanted for regicide. There has to be a major power shift in KL for even the possibility for that to happen, and as you said, he seems to want the wedding to happen soon from the urgency of things.     Agreed with that, but also Sansa is the main character in this story and the story has gone on too long with her as a pawn. Something has to happen in TWoW for this storyline to have a payoff, if this is believed to be the second last book. She has to contribute to the story in some way somehow, and I say this with the least Sansa bias as possible. :P Otherwise the point of her character is mystifying to me, George taking her through all this journey. The last book would be too little too late.

Well... Shadrich is in the Vale already. Do people think it's a giant red herring and it won't lead into any disturbance? I'm not saying he'll successfully kidnap Sansa, but it may lead to her identity being revealed to the Vale Lords and either way it's a huge trouble for LF.   If it all goes swell the way he expects, SR will have died, Sansa will have married Harry and what then? Still no sight of his endgame, he definitely does not expect the marriage to last that long if he wants Sansa for himself and his actions regarding that will take place within the last two books. So I'm not too worried, I'm highly expecting things to go wrong for LF towards the end of the book. Worse case scenario, the last one, but I prefer this one. :P   ETA: Also, his plans depend on a lot of assumptions. Sansa can't officially marry Harry until Tyrion is dead, and from his absurdly carefree manner he expects Tyrion to die soon somehow, either depending on Cersei's headhunters or something else. So yeah, too many factors that can go wrong, yet again. If he's a truly brilliant schemer, he will pull it off but until I see it I have so many signs to ignore.

Oh yeah, shit is about to go down in that tourney.  ^_^  Too many wild cards to ignore, too many factors that can disturb it and cause a game changer for LF's plans.

Well, I do agree the situation with SweetRobin is curious. I don't agree she's a robot doing what she's told, though. We have her PoV remember? That's similar to saying Arya is a robot because she only cares about her list of revenge and carries them out without thinking of the consequences, or pondering on them other than the fact they deserve to die.   Sansa's one characteristic that she didn't get rid of is her tendency to ignore or twist the facts into something more bearable, and I say that as quite a Sansa fan. Petyr told her SweetRobin is expected to die with an arched eyebrow, before that the Maester told her of the dangers of sweetsleep, but Sansa didn't mull on it at all. Even in the sample chapter it doesn't occur to her that LF may be slowly killing him, or if she does subconsciously she's doing her best to ignore it from her consciousness. She goes on to think when SR marries his wife will love his hair, that much is certain, as if what she is currently doing doesn't depend on his death. It is very curious.   The other one is Lysa's ramblings before she is thrown off the Moon Door that Petyr has her convinced was exactly what they were, ramblings. She doesn't want to believe Lysa might be right about Petyr, her protector, so she chooses to ignore what Lysa said. She's very conflicted. On some level of her consciousness she refuses to acknowledge Petyr might be that horrible person that brought Westeros to ruin, so it is safer not to believe Lysa and not question it anymore.   She did that a lot more in the first book to absurd levels that got lots of people in the fandom to hate her. Despite the signs, she desperately wanted her prince to be one from the stories and the queen to be the beautiful lady, she made a mistake that she regretted very much. She was also of course a child, and her idealism was at a blinding level because of her sheltered naivety.    So what I'm saying is, either this lack of reflection in her chapters in these matters is very deliberate and pointing towards a climactic reveal, when she truly processes them and her actions regarding them will surprise the readers very much, either in a bad or a good way, or she will not ponder on them until it is too late and who knows what will happen then. No one expects any of the characters in TWoW to have a smooth ride the whole book.

Welcome to GoT, where all characters act like dumbasses. Holy fucking shit.

Now with more rape and abuse! Tune in for Winterhell next week to see if Sansa manages to get Theon to do her bidding!

+1, needs to be read. I said something similar to this in another discussion board. "Wait and see" doesn't cut it here. Not to mention it does a disservice to Jeyne Poole's character if she gets over it like nothing (That's for those "You no care about Jeyne!!" strawmanners. I still think both characters aren't comparable but whatever). Both outcomes are bad storytelling. The whole thing is horribly contrived.

Indeed. Apparently they thought "Well! There's a minor character who is abused in the book. She has no relation to Theon. Say, why don't we put Sansa there and have her be raped, to cause so much DRAMA and SHOCK?" "Good idea man, everyone will talk about this on twitterz, this will cause so much fuss! Plus we will have "reunited" Theon and Sansa, who in the books don't have much of a bond anyway! Sansa forgiving Theon and getting over her rape will show so much growth! We are geniuses!" It says a lot about them that they thought a character as Sansa was interchangeable in such a storyline. For the sake of shock.

Thank you. Awesome points everyone has been raising here. :) They are cutting all the thematic importance in the books other than adding the very clever "REVENGE!! REVENGE FOR EVERYONE!!"

And this.

Well it's the fault of people who didn't cause outrage enough at that time innit? If you cared a lot about Theon's torture storyline, why didn't you speak out? Or if you didn't care, why do you care now that people are speaking out? You can't control what people will be outraged about. Besides, it's been talked about already. The dumb show was apparently comfortable enough to waste endless time showing the torture porn of Theon while gutting other characters' storylines. Now they take it to a next level by having a female main character raped that is not raped in the books by gutting her whole story arc and characterization.

OldGimletEye does it again. Especially loved the above part. Thanks for the laughs, good sir/lady. :) ETA: I like your mockery posts btw. It makes you feel better after reading countless trolling/strawmen/insensitive posts.

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