Archmaester_Aemma

A new framework for some of the HotU visions

47 posts in this topic

53 minutes ago, TheCarWolf said:

I was just commenting on this exact thing!  I think all that means is Tyrion has met them at some point.

If that's the case, it definitely fits Jon as the Young Dragon - he is the very first one Tyrion meets, and the very first one in the list.

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 I don't think it has to all be at the same time.  Plus the part about him in the midst of them "snarling" ,I believe was the term sorry if it isn't, seems already to have started somewhat with him convincing Aegon to go on to Westeros without Dany.  That isn't a spoiler is it?

Nope, it's clear in ADWD this is what's happening.

Edited by velo-knight

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6 hours ago, velo-knight said:

True, but Aemon and Tyrion have met back in AGOT, no? It's telling that dragons young and old are mentioned first - Tyrion has already been amidst these two.

 

6 hours ago, TheCarWolf said:

I was just commenting on this exact thing!  I think all that means is Tyrion has met them at some point.  I don't think it has to all be at the same time.  Plus the part about him in the midst of them "snarling" ,I believe was the term sorry if it isn't, seems already to have started somewhat with him convincing Aegon to go on to Westeros without Dany.  That isn't a spoiler is it?

Indeed, and that is an excellent point. The only argument against it being the visions in the flames so far not including past events...that I recall. I've forgotten plenty, so it's possible I'm missing a key element here.

And that brings us to...possible dragons Tyrion has met. Aemon, Jon, Dany, Aegon, Varys, Illyrio, and Brown Ben Plumm (not a full dragon, but he has two drops of the blood). He has not so far met Bloodraven, or any other potential Blackfyres. I don't recall...did Aurane Waters show up before or after Tyrion was arrested for Joffrey's murder? I hesitate to mention it, but Stannis also has dragonblood, as does Shireen (poor, doomed thing).

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9 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

 

Indeed, and that is an excellent point. The only argument against it being the visions in the flames so far not including past events...that I recall. I've forgotten plenty, so it's possible I'm missing a key element here.

And that brings us to...possible dragons Tyrion has met. Aemon, Jon, Dany, Aegon, Varys, Illyrio, and Brown Ben Plumm (not a full dragon, but he has two drops of the blood). He has not so far met Bloodraven, or any other potential Blackfyres. I don't recall...did Aurane Waters show up before or after Tyrion was arrested for Joffrey's murder? I hesitate to mention it, but Stannis also has dragonblood, as does Shireen (poor, doomed thing).

Aurane Waters was held captive after the Battle on the Blackwater.  It's possible Tyrion and he met, though it's not noted if they did.  The only mention of him before Feast is in a Sansa POV when she notes him kneeling to Joffrey with other captives.  Tyrion would still be recovering from his facial wound at that time. 

ETA: Tyrion hadn't met BBP yet when Moqorro gave that prophecy.  I don't know if he counts.  

Edited by Isobel Harper

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5 hours ago, Isobel Harper said:

Aurane Waters was held captive after the Battle on the Blackwater.  It's possible Tyrion and he met, though it's not noted if they did.  The only mention of him before Feast is in a Sansa POV when she notes him kneeling to Joffrey with other captives.  Tyrion would still be recovering from his facial wound at that time. 

ETA: Tyrion hadn't met BBP yet when Moqorro gave that prophecy.  I don't know if he counts.  

Thank you. I get a bit fuzzy on who has or has not met whom. Aurane Waters is mostly likely just the Bastard of Driftmark, but House Velaryon has a bit of Targ blood through Daemon's daughter Baela, so I don't feel entirely comfortable ruling him out from at least trying to get in the mix.

I submit though that future meetings might count, as the flames are often used to glimpse the future. Brown Ben could certainly count in the descriptors of False (not a real dragon, as he only has a bit of Targ blood, and also a betrayer) or Dark (could have Blackfyre blood for all we know).

We should probably throw Lysono Maar in too, just to be thorough. I don't mean to include every single person on Planetos with Valyrian coloring, but Maar seems like he could come into play and muck things up for Aegon and/or Dany.

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24 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I submit though that future meetings might count, as the flames are often used to glimpse the future. Brown Ben could certainly count in the descriptors of False (not a real dragon, as he only has a bit of Targ blood, and also a betrayer) or Dark (could have Blackfyre blood for all we know).

Regarding false and true dragons: I'm wondering if true and false might refer to sigils vs the real thing. IE, Drogon et al are true dragons, and all the "dragons" that are actually people associated with dragon symbol are false.

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30 minutes ago, velo-knight said:

Regarding false and true dragons: I'm wondering if true and false might refer to sigils vs the real thing. IE, Drogon et al are true dragons, and all the "dragons" that are actually people associated with dragon symbol are false.

It's quite possible!  "True" and "false" may also mean "loyal" and "deceitful" with no regard to "real" or "fake."  I guess it's all in how you look at it.

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On 14/01/2017 at 4:09 AM, The Drunkard said:

Google sunsets. They look red, orange and yellow, just as Stannis' sword is described. 

Hi, thanks for reading and commenting.

Whilst I am aware that sunsets have all of these colours, Martin does not choose to associate them all in the same way. Searching for the 3 colours quickly:
Red sunset = 6 occurrences, with another "setting sun turning Dany's face red" to total 7
Orange sunset/Orange dusk = 2 occurrences
Yellow sunset/yellow dusk does not appear in the series at all.
Whilst this is hardly a comprehensive search, I believe these results demonstrate that, whilst red yellows and oranges are present in sunsets, George is not choosing to associate all of the colours with sunset. I believe this association (or lack thereof) shouldn't be ignored; it seems very clear that GRRM has chosen the associations of each word and colour very carefully (think of how the word "rustling" is used almost exclusively with respect to the weirwood trees and the old gods), so the association (or lack thereof) between certain colours and sunset ought to be telling.

Then again, I could be reading too much in to it.

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