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Lady Blizzardborn

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About Lady Blizzardborn

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    the Mother of Games

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  1. Pretty Sansa's a curious Stark. And she sorrowf'lly sits in the park With a song on her mind And an escort behind As she ponders the loss of her bark.
  2. There once was a Northman called Ned Who went south when Jon Arryn was dead He was made the king's Hand Things did not go as planned And he ended up losing his head
  3. Finally changed my avatar. :D

  4. 1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

    Useful is not all it's cracked up to be. I'd love the details. I'm a total history nerd. Feel free to send them in a PM if you like.

    If I were smart, I would have just started at Plantagenet England, realized that it fit pretty well, and have been done. But instead…

    The most famous cadet house traditions are the early modern HRE ones, I'm pretty sure GRRM didn't borrow from there, because the reason they're famous is all the the wacky results that still persist to modern times, like the British royal house being a cadet branch of a cadet branch of a Wettin duchy and the German imperial house being a cadet branch of the County of Hohenzollern. There doesn't seem to be anything like that in Westeros.

    So, next, medieval France, which is the original basis for most other European systems (since they had strict primogeniture before anyone else, so they needed it). The heraldic rules fit, and the few descriptions we get of cadet houses seem to work, but there's a huge problem: In France, if you can't acquire a new territory through marriage or conquest to give to your second son, you almost always split off a new fief within your main holdings for him. In Westeros, acquiring territory through marriage seems to be actively discouraged rather than encouraged. Conquest may be about as common as in France (like House Lannister of Darry) but that's not very common. And we don't see subdivision every generation—it's rare enough that it's presumably something you only do if you really like your second son or are really worried about him rebelling, rather than it being expected.

    Norman England directly brought over the French appanage traditions, but William immediately ran into the problem of his heir trying to overthrow him twice, so he ended up leaving everything to his second son, William II. Meanwhile, William II and Henry I were trying to flatten out the aristocracy and shrink all the old and new earldoms down, so nobody wanted to subdivide their domains either, because that would just make it easier for the kings to turn everyone into little more than barons. But when it did happen (often after acquiring new territory—e.g., Edward II conquered north Wales and part of Scotland, then his son gave York and Lancaster to his cadets), they followed the French rules. Which is basically the same thing we see in Westeros.

    And if you assume that GRRM borrowed this system for cadet houses, everything works, including the heraldry.

    What about bastard houses? They weren't very common in Plantagenet England, but they were common a few centuries later. And if you look at the Westerosi heraldic pattern—the father's arms quartered on a plain field with a baton sinister—that was invented by the King of Arms standardizations in the late 16th century. At that time, it was clear that bastards were not considered cadets—this was explicit with Charles II's bastards. Appanage was pretty much dead at that point, but if it had still existed, I don't think it would have applied to bastards. At that time, appanage was pretty much dead anyway, but also, Charles II's bastards were explicitly not called cadets.

    So, my guess is that Westeros's cadet house system is borrowed from Norman to Plantagenet England, but its bastard system is borrowed from Stuart England.

    As you can see, there's a lot of guessing here, but I think it all fits.

    1. Lady Blizzardborn

      Lady Blizzardborn

      Very cool! Thank you for sharing all of that with me.

  5. This is a weird one, but I think it fits Sansa, especially when she's still crazy about Joffrey. Lipstick by Runaway June
  6. Still having issues with trying to post in some threads (several, but not all of the ones I tried today). I had cleared my cache, then couldn't get the site to come up for two days. Now I'm back at square one. Here's a screenshot of what I keep getting when I click in the little box to write a post... This also happens in some threads when I quote another post. I get that little bit of code, the quote, and that bit of code again, and can't do anything! It usually freezes the page so closing the tab is my only option. But on the up side, I can actually get those tabs to close without closing Chrome altogether. I also sometimes get this (screenshot) when I go to post. If I just delete it, everything is fine. If I click on "Clear editor" I get that "span data" thing, and am stuck. As of a few minutes ago I'm getting the "span data" thing when copying and pasting, but am able to delete it then. Windows 7, on my Acer laptop, Google Chrome.
  7. Thanks in part to @The Fattest Leech this song is now my head-canon for Jenny's song that the GoHH requests of Tom O'Sevens. Laugh and Half-Daft
  8. I had seen that before...er...part of it. Never viewed it in terms of Pycelle being the old guy though. That makes it seem different. Not better, but different.:D On an unrelated note, somebody made a pretty good video of Guns And Ships from Hamilton with clips from GoT, and now I can't listen to that song without seeing Dany, Jon, Grey Worm, and the rest. Here it is if you want to see it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIEuHh0wxoo
  9. Used to sing that to my niece, changing it to September for her. This evening my daughter has been listening to (and singing along with) What Does the Fox Say? Annoying as seven hells, but I found myself thinking of House Florent.
  10. Would it be possible to get my Daario theory added in the true identities section?
  11. Men In Black reminds me of the Night's Watch despite the alien theme. Jo Dee Messina's Burn fits Mel nicely. And for the showtune geeks like myself, Far From the Home I Love for Arya. "Who could see that a man would come who would change the shape of my dreams?" *cough, Jaqen, cough*
  12. Ah, my Advanced Crackpottery threads have been archived. Seems like only yesterday I was posting them. Guess I better get cracking on the 4th one, which will be easier to do once the kids are in school again.

    1. Lord Wraith

      Lord Wraith

      Looking forward to it.

       

    2. Lady Blizzardborn

      Lady Blizzardborn

      Thanks, Lord Wraith!

  13. "You'll Be Back" from Hamilton. Saw a mention in the comments on YouTube about how King George sounds a lot like Ramsay Bolton in this and I can't un-notice that now.
  14. Not the same thing. You're talking about disobeying a direct order. Arya was never told not to kill Daeron. But Arya's killing of Daeron was an indication that she's still Arya Stark. So I'll agree that the punishment might not have been about killing a non-mark. After all, Pate was obviously not a mark and he got liquidated to facilitate a job. In general it seems like the FM are allowed a great deal of creative freedom. Doesn't seem like the Kindly Man or anyone else is micromanaging the fully-trained operatives. Then again, their discipline is already unquestioned. It's about more than that. Every member of the crew on the ship that took Arya to Braavos made sure she knew their names. They aren't loved ones, and she has no reason to be particularly loyal to them, yet she could refuse an assignment to kill anyone on that boat. If she's truly become "no one" crew members on ships should not bring up loyalty issues. I'd agree completely if it were just about loved ones, but clearly it isn't. What happens after loving, nobleborn father is dead? Is there any guarantee that her siblings or other relatives would care for her? Marriage prospects would be bleak, she wouldn't have a job because nobleborn women don't. It's not about hopes and dreams and who is thrilled with what. Her being given to them is not a tragedy. No it's not a cushy wonderland, but it's a life and it's a safe one. If her father had refused, she might have ended up dead as her step-mother continued to poison her, or an orphan if her father killed his wife himself. This is a Martin series. There wasn't going to be a happy ending to that situation. The Waif's story is the Waif's story. It doesn't tell us everything. It tells us what happened in that instance. And from what the Waif says in that chapter it sounds like her father offered her and his wealth freely. She doesn't say that the FM demanded that. It specifically says "...he came here and made sacrifice, offering up all his wealth and me. Him of Many-Faces heard his prayer. I was brought to the temple to serve, and my father's wife received the gift." The ALL of his wealth being a lie, because it was only two-thirds that he offered...but the rest was true. Chances are the step-mother was not someone the FM cared about one way or another, but if asked to kill someone important to the organization what do you think they're response would be? Valar morghulis? That might get in the way with the dohaerising of the valar in question. Jaqen tells Arya that three lives are owed because she saved him and those other two guys. They all three would have died if not for her intervention. So clearly that's another example of how big a deal death is to them. But there's no money in that. So in a way that offer of three lives taken is purer in a religious sense than turning a profit from killing people. Precisely. An end to suffering. Not everyone is suffering. And they couldn't possibly argue that death by poison or other forms of assassination is natural, even though death in general is. They're messing with nature by offing people, so there's something else going on. If their goal was really to kill everyone on Planetos, how come they haven't managed to accomplish that in the thousands of years they've been in existence? They're older than Braavos, going back to before the Doom. You'd think between dragons and poisons they could have knocked everybody out by now. And how come they charge so much? If death is natural and a gift, it should technically be free. The money angle muddies the waters. And the FM curiously don't seem to desire death for themselves. Most real-life death cults end up nowhere...because they kill themselves and no one is left to carry on the message. The first FM felt he was the instrument of the Many-Faced God, doing his work, but he didn't set out to give the gift to everyone...he didn't need to, because most people were going to die whether he did anything about it or not. He was selective. We know this because he wasn't caught and killed before passing his legacy on to others. The first FM didn't charge so far as we know. A pure, religious motive would be like Mel's--she burns people out in the open. She doesn't take multiple other people's identities to secretly kill. So far as we know. I mean we know there doesn't seem to be a consciousness, but we don't know that they can't feel pain. Without a wight POV our knowledge is somewhat limited. It's still a defiling of death. So I still think the FM would have a problem with it. Now with the R'hllorists actually bringing people back to an extent, the FM could make a killing...so to speak...with repeat business. But back to the Others, they kill the people and animals in what might be considered an unnatural way before turning them into Wights. So the Others could be seen as competition for the FM...especially since they don't charge. Recycling! So it is really all an allegory for environmental issues. Excellent point on the hidden contents. Here's a crazy thought that brings us back to Euron...what if the woman/shadow is the Mad Maid come out of the tower?
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