Disturbing elements of the GoT fandom

[Xanderpanda]

Funny how it only took a few posts for the sexist remarks to be called out, while other threads I've been reading today include page upon page of rudeness and horrendous generalisations of female fans. :rolleyes: ah well. OP's post made me laugh, if nothing else.

Yeah I noticed it too didn't wanna be the one to point it out though lol

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Yeah I noticed it too didn't wanna be the one to point it out though lol

LOL IKR:

MEN ONLY LIKE FIGHTING AND POLITICS AND T&A AND THEY LIVE IN THEIR MOMS BASEMENT

WOMEN ONLY LIKE HOT SHIRTLESS GUYS AND KISSING AND SPARKLY GIFS AND TALKING IN ALL CAPS

What the F is wrong with everyone all of a sudden? We're all HUMAN BEINGS! :bawl:

[Xanderpanda]

LOL IKR:

MEN ONLY LIKE FIGHTING AND POLITICS AND T&A AND THEY LIVE IN THEIR MOMS BASEMENT

WOMEN ONLY LIKE HOT SHIRTLESS GUYS AND KISSING AND SPARKLY GIFS AND TALKING IN ALL CAPS

What the F is wrong with everyone all of a sudden? We're all HUMAN BEINGS! :bawl:

All fandoms have their crazy moments. At least we don't have never ending hateful shipping debates I still don't think I've recovered yet from the days of R/Hr vs H/Hr :lol:

[Brienne the Beauty]

Funny how it only took a few posts for the sexist remarks to be called out, while other threads I've been reading today include page upon page of rudeness and horrendous generalisations of female fans. :rolleyes: ah well. OP's post made me laugh, if nothing else.

It's kind of funny how so many people did not notice the OP is a parody of the other thread that has a lot of posts decrying fangirl culture.

[EddieLarkin]

Ian McShane can probably teach Alfie Allen a thing or two about playing such a scene, given he had several such scenes in Deadwood.

Another reason he needs to be cast for next year, so he can give such sage advice to young Alfie. He could easily play Balon, Craster, Qhorin, Roose, Mace. Even Davos.

[ctas]

It's kind of funny how so many people did not notice the OP is a parody of the other thread that has a lot of posts decrying fangirl culture.

Oh, I definitely did. hence the laughing ;)

[aktarian]

The violence is necessary to the story though as is most of the book sex scenes. The main issue is really the added cable nudity from Ros which is added purely for the "sex sells" draw card. The info from the sexpositions can easily be relayed another way.

Oh, I agree. The violence is there because books are violent. And sex is there because books deal with sex in human, not idealistic way. It's just that people too often get excited about some skin but not over people getting butchered left and right. The only sex scene I have an "issue" with is LF and two women. It serves no purpose other that showing two naked women together in faux lesbian scene. The point of Pycelle scene for me was the fact that he is rambling on, trying to be phylosophical to person who has no interest in his thoughts while she goes on about her business.

[CryFenril]

Oh, I agree. The violence is there because books are violent. And sex is there because books deal with sex in human, not idealistic way. It's just that people too often get excited about some skin but not over people getting butchered left and right. The only sex scene I have an "issue" with is LF and two women. It serves no purpose other that showing two naked women together in faux lesbian scene. The point of Pycelle scene for me was the fact that he is rambling on, trying to be phylosophical to person who has no interest in his thoughts while she goes on about her business.

This makes me think that perhaps the biggest reason Petyr's sexposition scene bothers me so much is because it's really the only one that is stylized in that fashion. I'll have to rewatch the series, obviously, to refresh my memory, but I think you just nailed it in one.

[Envie]

Another thing to consider is that Martin takes an unromantic view of sex in series. You have (gang)rapes, prostitution, extramaritial affairs, incest.... Show simply reflects that and people would complain if it was glossed over or ignored.

And I think it's telling that issue of nudity is an issue while violence isn't.

You hit the nail right on the head with that last line.

Not many will come crying that the show has too much violence and that must have been added because we (humans) are such a violent species and 'it can't be helped' because that's just our nature. Blah.

It's always the gratuitous sex that seems to bother people. Apparently everyone's fine with the parts you mentioned, that are from the books - rapes, prostitution, etc... but Roz flashes her snatch and everyone's annoyed and put out about it - while 80% of the rest of its bloody scenes of death and violence. But that's ok, because its true to the story. :rolleyes:

I don't think it has anything to do with appealing to the male sex fanbase at all.

[Carldog]

Is the sex over the top?

Yes.

Does sex sell?

Yes. See some 6 billon $ in porn sales a year in this country.

Is the violence over the top?

A little, but close to the book.

Does violence sell?

Yes and no. Lets just say it doesn't drive the bus.

[Ser Warpechowski]

Im pretty sure most male readers didnt like the sexposition scenes either. I dont like the Ros character and I think the time showing her could´ve had been used for other content.

I was so excited that HBO was doing this show because I thought they would create a series based on dialogue and plot. That is why I was so disapointed with the sexposition. I guess even HBO has to compromise to sell.

[Bran The Baker]

My wife and I are new viewers. To be honest, the "sexposition" doesn't bother us in the slightest. Compared to what I've seen on Showtimes Sparticus, Game of thrones is PG13. Keep in mind that i've just started to read the first book. Maybe once I'm finished and can compare the two I'll feel differently, but as a new viewer the sex is a non issue to us. Maybe thats an issue with being a book reader? You know how the story plays out so nothing is really shocking except for the in-your-face sex. But, when your a new viewer and experience the events of episode 9 and 10 for the first time.. The sex scenes don't even register on the shock scale.

[aktarian]

Im pretty sure most male readers didnt like the sexposition scenes either. I dont like the Ros character and I think the time showing her could´ve had been used for other content.

I was so excited that HBO was doing this show because I thought they would create a series based on dialogue and plot. That is why I was so disapointed with the sexposition. I guess even HBO has to compromise to sell.

I think she is important as visual aid. We learn she is a whore. We see her with Tyrion, which tells us he visits whores, something explained later in more detail. We see her with Theon and further show how he is not taken seriously. Scene with Pycelle shows us something about him.

She is a recuring character because she is a type, a prostitute, and using her people will instantlly recognize her for that and don't have to be told "he is with a prostitute" in other way.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

She is a recuring character because she is a type, a prostitute, and using her people will instantlly recognize her for that and don't have to be told "he is with a prostitute" in other way.

Yeah, Ros is an interesting case. I totally see what they were trying to do, and it I think it's what you were describing here.

But I think in execution it just becomes silly and a little gross. She comes across as the bicycle of Westeros, everyone gets a ride! :rolleyes: It's just too much of a coincidence that a single whore would service all the major male characters. It breaks the suspension of disbelief for me.

[Lion of Venice]

Yeah, Ros is an interesting case. I totally see what they were trying to do, and it I think it's what you were describing here.

But I think in execution it just becomes silly and a little gross. She comes across as the bicycle of Westeros, everyone gets a ride! :rolleyes: It's just too much of a coincidence that a single whore would service all the major male characters. It breaks the suspension of disbelief for me.

Plus, we can assume a character is with a prostitute in other more subtle or simple ways, like seeing the girl acting detached to the guy she just finished having sex with and leaving right after, or having the man asking "what was your name again?" or, even more simple, we can see the girl getting payed.

[Ser Greguh]

To me the most disturbing aspect of the GoT fanbase wrt the show has, ironically, been the inability of many vocal posters on these boards (and elsewhere) to separate eroticism from pornography, and thus a nearly-complete lockdown in more than a few threads of the ability to discuss the merits and flaws of quite a few of the scenes that include sex and/or nudity. Some people, the less sophisticated among us, look at a scene that includes something erotic and that's all they see. The people who crudely "appreciate" said eroticism are not particularly evolved, of course, but neither are the people who notice such things only to condemn them. To both sides, the only thing they see is what is perceived as erotic, and that (and not the reaction to the eroticism) is what is unevolved.

The infamous "sexposition" scene of Littlefinger and his two employees is a prime example. It was titillating, yes, but those who say its only purpose was to titillate (and who thus condemn the scene) are just as clueless as the people who look at such a scene as simple "spank material" akin to, say, the softcore pornography one finds on late-night Cinemax. The impulse that leads to that condemnation may or may not be veiled (or unveiled) prudishness, but "not a prude" and "capable of viewing the scene on its own merits regardless of the presence of something erotic" are very different concepts. It's depressing to me that so many viewers seem incapable of looking at those scenes objectively rather than allowing the eroticism to blind them to any other purpose to the scene.

Personally I thought the Littlefinger scene was fantastic; it was a very clever insight into an otherwise impenetrable character. In the one scene we establish (or strongly reinforce) the following:

* Littlefinger's contempt for the simplistic ways of the North. He views Ros much the same way as he views Ned Stark: a fine enough specimen, but utterly naive to the subtleties that are his bread and butter. Ros's initial inability to feign pleasure mirrors Ned's inability to feign diplomacy. (Unlike Ned, however, Ros is receptive to Littlefinger's coaching).

* Littlefinger's overall diplomatic strategy, which in and of itself mirrors a kind of seduction: Petyr knows that people view him as a snake, but is able to worm his way into their confidences by convincing them that, for one reason or another, this time is different, this time he's really on their side, and that he is the sort of person that you really want on your side. This is of course the exact advice he coaches to Ros (and her coworker): of bringing one's deception to a second level rather than just trying to be straightforward about it. Indirectly this speaks to the depth of Littlefinger's game.

* Littlefinger's obsession with Catelyn, which was hinted at but not really made perfectly clear until this scene, for while Littlefinger has professed his affection for Catelyn, he also was willing to manipulate events so as to use her as a pawn, leaving the viewer unsure to this point whether his love for her is true or simply a sham he maintains because it is convenient (unreliable narrator and all that). This scene cements it as real, and cements that it is a true obsession. Incidentally, this is almost certainly the reason why this scene in particular was filmed in such an overtly erotic fashion: by presenting the scene in such a way, and presenting it from Littlefinger's POV, we are turned on, and so we expect him to be as well. And yet he rejects Ros's overt offer to join them, something very few unattached red-blooded males, I daresay, would do. His refusal of the offer is disorienting, so much so that the viewer begins to suspect that whatever the depths of his game, his ultimate motives may be very simple.

* Even the seeming non-sequitur of "Play with her arse" is revealing, in its own way: even when embroiled in a long, revealing monologue, Littlefinger remains aware and able to observe and micromanage.

Now, the artistic merits and flaws of such a scene are certainly up for debate, but anyone who says that the scene has "no purpose" other than its obvious T&A factor are, in my opinion, terminally clueless and not worthy of serious consideration. That such people seem to make up such a large percentage of the posters here is quite depressing to me indeed.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Now, the artistic merits and flaws of such a scene are certainly up for debate, but anyone who says that the scene has "no purpose" other than its obvious T&A factor are, in my opinion, terminally clueless and not worthy of serious consideration. That such people seem to make up such a large percentage of the posters here is quite depressing to me indeed.

I think that I speak for a lot of people that love the Littlefinger monologue but think that we would have rather been able to actually hear it over the ridiculously loud and distracting moaning.

Yes, of course I understood that there were parallels between the sex going on and what he was saying BUT I think they could have come up with other parallels that did not involve two girls fingerbanging and moaning.

[Ser Greguh]

Yes, of course I understood that there were parallels between the sex going on and what he was saying BUT I think they could have come up with other parallels that did not involve two girls fingerbanging and moaning.

They could have, yes, without a doubt. But why should they feel compelled to, other than the pressure to kowtow to the prudish? Eroticism is a tool of art. IMO it's not really their problem that some people have trouble focusing on the art as a whole because the presence of eroticism is blinding.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

They could have, yes, without a doubt. But why should they feel compelled to, other than the pressure to kowtow to the prudish? Eroticism is a tool of art.

In this case, I feel that Eroticism was not being used as a tool to enhance the art. Instead, the producers at HBO have some kind of requirement for 1 sex scene an episode (or so), so the show runners figured out a way to shoehorn in some sex in an otherwise sex free episode.

I didn't hate the scene, but the sex didn't add anything here IMO.

[Ser Greguh]

In this case, I feel that Eroticism was not being used as a tool to enhance the art. Instead, the producers at HBO have some kind of requirement for 1 sex scene an episode (or so), so the show runners figured out a way to shoehorn in some sex in an otherwise sex free episode.

I didn't hate the scene, but the sex didn't add anything here IMO.

And you are wrong, imo. Without making the scene erotic there is no way to show the disconnect of Littlefinger's unexpected reaction when asked to join in, which was a major point of the scene. In fact, of all the "sexposition" scenes that have been listed, it is the scene where the sex was the most essential, and imo it's not even close. (Contrasted with this is the scene between Viserys and Doreah, where the need for sex was tangential at best).