AGOT Mafia Game n= May 2011.

[House Tyrell]

Um...

First of all, that's a terrible argument, because I MENTION in that post, "Whoops, Kat posted while I was writing this, and that changes my entire read of her." But in all honesty, I can't remember if I saw that post of Faraday's before I hit submit on my catch-up post.

Seems like an okay argument to me. And Kat's post came 45 minutes before Igor's - how are we supposed to know when you last updated the thread before posting?

But obviously I found him innocent-looking before then (if you really want, I can quote even more innocent-sounding posts of his from earlier, but I don't see the point).

Why would that be obvious to any of us? The only evidence we have is as follows:

1) You say he sounds "extremely innocent" in post 159.

2) Then you defend him even more in post 180, saying "Krakatoa and Igor are both innocent. Vote someone else, please."

3) He says your lack of paranoia has him concerned, in post 181.

4) In post 183, you cite Igor's post 153 as the main reason why you feel he's innocent. That's the post that WW pointed out, because it came in a period of time that you supposedly hadn't read before calling Igor "extremely innocent".

What do you think of Mina?

I could certainly see an argument that she is kissing up to you. Her explanations for why she finds you innocent don't add up, given the sequence of events posted above.

[House Upcliff]

I agree Ernst Blofeld for his opportunistic vote of Simba

Ernst was the first to vote for Simba, and he sparred with him directly. If anyone looked opportunistic, it would be Sooty who voted after a brief line about Simba fighting with Igor. What makes Ernst particularly opportunistic?

[House Tyrell]

Sleep time.

[House Upcliff]

Currently I thinking that neither of Starlin voters are scums: {Garfield, Wonder Woman, Puff the Magic Dragon, Igor}

Or only one of them, in which case it would be Wonder Woman. His vote is nothing but OMGUS.

As WW later states, his is the only vote I remember where he gave decent reasons. This looks sloppy on your part.

Sooty is clearly misrepresenting my posts. Given the attention headed my way, it looks like an attempt to join the bandwagon and increase the momentum against me.

Agreed. It kind of goes along with my question to Marple - between Ernst and Sooty, why is Ernst, the one who first voted Simba, labeld more opportunistic? Sooty fits that much better IMO.

My FM list would be (in order of FMness, oh God this sounds so stupid): Edward, The mummy, Humpty Dumpty, Wonder Woman.

Since I had one post at this point saying absolutely nothing, is the criteria for my FMness purely my low profile? Combine this with your post saying WW's vote on Starlin was OMGUS and it looks like you're not really trying to find the evilz. You also decided to champion the go to night movement, which is a good way to contribute to the discussion without drawing heat and having to actually discuss who looks evil. I hear that it's hard for FM to make up cases on people who they know are innocent. Just sayin' :smoking:

[House Upcliff]

From what I know she saying the truth. I didn't seen her all day at another site too. Also, I doubt that she is from that kind of players who would be faking this issue.

Just noticed this. Did I miss something Sooty said? What issue would she be faking (or not faking)?

[House Redfort]

Good morning.

I remember Malc as someone with a surprising insight, who is often able to pick up the tiniest clue early on and turn it into a case with both legitimacy and reasonable accuracy. Out of anyone here, he's the one who I'd expect to be finding points that turned us from the RP-and-role-distribution-and-odd-even-rule phase into the legitimate voting phase. I usually end up disagreeing with his clues, but that's not the point.

So seeing him toss out the fluffiest of fluff during that phase raised major alarm bells.

That is, you suspect me for exactly same reasons as my reasons to suspect Simba. :)

Now I see that Simba suspected Humpy of sending symp clue to Sooty; somehow I missed this yesterday. And I'd say Simba is probably the last player I'd expect looking for symp clues from.

As for the rest, I find Garfield's Puff's and Igor's votes to be opportunisting and parroting. None of them gave any reasoning except agreeing with what WW said. I'd like them to give a reasoning now.

Remove vote, since now I think WW is less suspicious than other four players I've mentioned. I'll vote after some thinking.

[House Upcliff]

Now that I've caught up I see that Marple answered Mina on why Ernst was more opportunistic than Sooty and Igor explained why he got good vibes from Puff (although, be forewarned - I hate the argument that someone is or isn't being coached behind the scenes.)

I know Humpty ended up posting a lot, but at this point I was a bit fried trying to take in the whole thread and I don't have a good read on her. I never have a good read on Krakatoa. No reason to suspect Simba or Igor. Not sure about Edward or Marple. Feel good about Wonder Woman. I need more from Garfield. Also need more from Ernst, Sooty and Puff (slightly suspicious, Sooty leading that pack). That leaves my top suspects as Starlin and Showgirl. Starlin I am willing to leave for now as usually I don't get a good read from him on day 1, but I will say I really didn't like his day one play. He seemed like he was trying to be ... less contentious than normal. I dunno, that one's gut and like I said, I'm willing to let it ride. So yeah, that brings me to Showgirl Barbie for his lack of effort in hunting killers. Sure, you could see it as OMGUS, but tell me I'm wrong.

Showgirl Barbie

[House Reed]

Ok, back.

If it makes you feel any better, Mummy (:P), I missed you. Or I would have, if I hadn't spent my evening catching up on the Survivor finale so I wouldn't accidentally get spoiled on who won. (A girl has to have priorities, after all.)

I get the idea that Showgirl Barbie is sort of like me-- has some personal ideas on how to look for killers, but sometimes has gaping holes in his explanations which cause people to doubt logic. I don't really suspect him, yet, although I do disagree with a lot of his reasoning. Particularly a few things that the Mummy pointed out: glaring blind spots for clueless new folks such as Puff. Honestly, I totally remember at least one game where someone coasted to a mafia win based on being new and clueless and slightly crazy. I'd probably say it's the best strategy for an evil new person to take, just to be themselves, because it makes them hard to read. I'd have advised Puff to do that, anyway, were he my partner. :uhoh:

Anyway, that's why I don't give people like Puff and Garfield free passes.

And Gert- I don't think anyone is calling Ernst more opportunistic. I wasn't, anyway, although when you actually go back and count the votes, both of them were #2, technically.

My vote remains where it is.

[House Wythers]

I'm baaaaaack.

Good morning.

That is, you suspect me for exactly same reasons as my reasons to suspect Simba. :)

Now I see that Simba suspected Humpy of sending symp clue to Sooty; somehow I missed this yesterday. And I'd say Simba is probably the last player I'd expect looking for symp clues from.

As for the rest, I find Garfield's Puff's and Igor's votes to be opportunisting and parroting. None of them gave any reasoning except agreeing with what WW said. I'd like them to give a reasoning now.

Remove vote, since now I think WW is less suspicious than other four players I've mentioned. I'll vote after some thinking.

<_< I threw my vote at you in the beginning just to sort of get the ball rolling. Is that considered opportunistic? I didn't have anything especially insightful to add to the conversation, so I gave the pot a stir. All the subsequent votes for you seem a tad shady to me. Seems like they were just trying to pile it on. Haven't removed the vote yet because I wanted to see what you'd say when you came back. I am on the fence about you.

Now that I've caught up I see that Marple answered Mina on why Ernst was more opportunistic than Sooty and Igor explained why he got good vibes from Puff (although, be forewarned - I hate the argument that someone is or isn't being coached behind the scenes.)

I know Humpty ended up posting a lot, but at this point I was a bit fried trying to take in the whole thread and I don't have a good read on her. I never have a good read on Krakatoa. No reason to suspect Simba or Igor. Not sure about Edward or Marple. Feel good about Wonder Woman. I need more from Garfield. Also need more from Ernst, Sooty and Puff (slightly suspicious, Sooty leading that pack). That leaves my top suspects as Starlin and Showgirl. Starlin I am willing to leave for now as usually I don't get a good read from him on day 1, but I will say I really didn't like his day one play. He seemed like he was trying to be ... less contentious than normal. I dunno, that one's gut and like I said, I'm willing to let it ride. So yeah, that brings me to Showgirl Barbie for his lack of effort in hunting killers. Sure, you could see it as OMGUS, but tell me I'm wrong.

Showgirl Barbie

Ask and you shall receive Mummy dearest.

Is OMGUS a spite vote? Because from where I'm sitting this looks like a spite vote. I seem to remember Barbie putting the screws to Edward and Krakatoa, though she seem to me more interested in finding town than FM.

[House Redfort]

As for the rest, I find Garfield's Puff's and Igor's votes to be opportunisting and parroting. None of them gave any reasoning except agreeing with what WW said. I'd like them to give a reasoning now.

Ok, after some rereading I have to admit that none of three directly agreed with WW. Puff and Garfield gave one reason each, both same as WW's reason, but I can believe they found those reasons by themselves.

Except of this, both contributed nothing, and it would be hard to prefer one to another.

Igor just said I would be good lynch because my guilt would mean Humpty's innocence. Which isn't valid reason at all. You can't lynch a person just because it gives some connection info (even if it actually gives).

I generally dislike Igor's play, but accept Hmpty's statement that it's his ususal innocent play, for a while (I don't remember much about Igor's play myself).

Which leaves Simba. Of couse I know it's virtually impossible to lynch him when he enters roar mode; but, actually, we need him in roar mode, if he is innocent.

[House Ashford]

Barbie's not FM. From the way he's talking he's on moonbeams but probably believes what he's saying, he's not going to propose that as scum if he believes it's optimal. Even if he doesn't believe it he's probably not going to try and push something that attracts such negative attention to him.

Need to re-read been a bit distracted last couple of hours.

[House Upcliff]

If it makes you feel any better, Mummy (:P), I missed you.

:love:

I am not giving the low fliers a pass, in fact I could easily vote for Sooty and Puff. When looking at Showgirl, I don't see the gaps in logic, I just see little real effort into looking for killers. His entire list of suspects are low fliers (easy targets). His explanation of why he doesn't suspect the Starlin voters is sparse and characterizing WW's vote as OMGUS was just plain wrong. Maybe that stuck out more to me because I was thinking the same things about Starlin when I saw his post verbalizing just about everything I was feeling at that point.

My issue with Ernst being opportunistic is that Marple specifically voted him for that reason. At the time I was thinking Sooty would fit that description more. I didn't understand why she thought that (but now she's explained, it's just a matter of if I buy it)

[House Reed]

I'm baaaaaack.

Speak of the devil....

I threw my vote at you in the beginning just to sort of get the ball rolling. Is that considered opportunistic? I didn't have anything especially insightful to add to the conversation, so I gave the pot a stir. All the subsequent votes for you seem a tad shady to me. Seems like they were just trying to pile it on. Haven't removed the vote yet because I wanted to see what you'd say when you came back. I am on the fence about you.

So, now that you're back and that you see your vote as part of a group of four (largest vote cluster on one person, 8 hours before the end of day, which I will remind everyone may be a time when some US boarders may just be getting into their work days, or asleep.) So, I would urge you to read the rest of the thread and decide whether your "just wanted to get the ball rolling" vote is something you want to snowball into an actual lynch.

Is OMGUS a spite vote? Because from where I'm sitting this looks like a spite vote.

Basically, yes. It stands for "Oh my god, you suck."

[House Redfort]

All the subsequent votes for you seem a tad shady to me. Seems like they were just trying to pile it on.

And you weren't? How your vote was different from Puff's?

Is OMGUS a spite vote?

Dunno about spite vote, but OMGUS means voting somebody who voted you previously, and mostly because of that.

[House Reed]

Which leaves Simba. Of couse I know it's virtually impossible to lynch him when he enters roar mode; but, actually, we need him in roar mode, if he is innocent.

Gah. Are you saying that you want to lynch him before he enters King of Pride Rock mode and goes nuts, or that you want to provoke him into doing so with your vote, thus urge the game along? Or do you just want to lynch someone just because?

[House Upcliff]

Barbie's not FM. From the way he's talking he's on moonbeams but probably believes what he's saying, he's not going to propose that as scum if he believes it's optimal. Even if he doesn't believe it he's probably not going to try and push something that attracts such negative attention to him.

Need to re-read been a bit distracted last couple of hours.

Barbie's main contribution has been persuading us to vote night. I could easily see an FM deciding to take that tack because 1)it is a safe way to contribute 2) it actually helps him by suppressing discussion. The part about bringing attention to himself is null, I feel. It was a safe thing to bring up and easy to fake sincerity on. It's much harder to dredge up false evidence on someone.

When it comes to actually discussing who is guilty/innocent, I find his contribution to be lacking.

[House Redfort]

Gah. Are you saying that you want to lynch him before he enters King of Pride Rock mode and goes nuts, or that you want to provoke him into doing so with your vote, thus urge the game along? Or do you just want to lynch someone just because?

Definitely not the first and not the third. The second, partially.

I just want to lynch a player I suspect mostly; by coincidence, it's him. And I think we might benefit from having a train on him whether he is guilty or not. Though, now I see he won't have much time to participate before sunset.

The part about bringing attention to himself is null,

I hope it won't be offensive to add that Barbie usually enjoys bringing attention to himself regardless of role. Yes, it's null tell.

[House Upcliff]

I seem to remember Barbie putting the screws to Edward and Krakatoa, though she seem to me more interested in finding town than FM.

If by putting the screws on means putting vote on Krakatoa and then removing it right away, and voting Edward for ... I dunno, low profile, then yeah. Screws.

I had to re-read this because honestly, his horrible list of suspects was overshadowing everything else for me. He did comment more than I remembered on a variety of players. I still can't get over the list and his calling WW's vote on Starlin the most suspicious. From where I am sitting, WW's was the most solid, OMGUS or not.

Bah - I have to go soon and I realized I may not be around for the end of the day, so now I have to re-think this. My vote is not doing anyone any good sitting where it is and I don't feel comfortable voting Starlin so soon, even though he is tripping some alarms.

[House Reed]

I just want to say that I do not approve of the general direction this is heading, because it looks like the two people I meta-suspect the least seem to be popular targets. :bang:

Gert/Mummy, what would it take for me to convince you that my theory about people voting for Simba, (other than perhaps Starlin, who I feel is possibly just innocently and unfortunately mistaken about Simba) is right? By which I mean, is there any chance I could get you to vote for Sooty here? :worried:

Malc- I'm not sure your idea of wanting to provoke Simba into full-on beast mode by voting for him is going to work. Or it may, in fact, backfire. Once I tried to lynch him while he was asleep. He woke up and got me killed while I was asleep. At this rate, he'll probably wake up and get to work with an hour or two to spare in the day, so your timing isn't ideal.

But also, I think you're wrong. Just my gut feeling vs. your gut feeling. Usually when WJ is evil, I feel like he's really enjoying the game and goes into this locked-in Smooth-Talking Lawyer mode, which I'm not getting here yet. :dunno:

[House Redfort]

Once I tried to lynch him while he was asleep. He woke up and got me killed while I was asleep.

I remember that incident. I just don't remember if he was guilty in that game...

At this rate, he'll probably wake up and get to work with an hour or two to spare in the day, so your timing isn't ideal.

Agreed, alas. But I still don't see better vote.