Coldhands and Benjen Stark

[TheStallionWhoMountsDany]

As we know, Samwell has seen Coldhands. Samwell did not recognize him as Benjen Stark. He did, however, recognize some of the other Night's Watch members after they'd been turned into wights. But maybe Samwell wouldn't have recognized Benjen Stark anyway. Still, when Bran first layed eyes on Coldhands, Samwell was there. And Bran did not scream out "Uncle Benjen!" or anything like that. Bran did not recognize Coldhands at all. He would have recognized his Uncle Benjen.

[Stubert]

I don't think that Sam has ever seen Benjen, I'm pretty sure that Benjen was gone before Sam ever arrived at the wall. Also, I don't think we have seen the scene where Bran meets Coldhands yet. I don't have the book where I am at right now to check but, I thought the last Bran chapter in ASOS ended with him going through the Black Gate. I don't remember seeing Coldhands through Bran's eyes yet.

[Daralys]

Benjen left on his ranging 3 days after Jon reached the wall, and Sam came to the wall even later than that, so Sam's never met Benjen.

When I first read SoS and for quite a while afterwards, I was completely convinced that Benjen was Coldhands. The last Bran chapter ends with them passing through the gate, but Sam mentions what happened afterwards very briefly a few chapters later:

It tore the heart from Sam to hold his silence then. Bran's not dead, Jon, he wanted to stay. He's with friends, and they're going north on a giant elk to find a three-eyed crow in the depths of the haunted forest. it sounded so mad that there were times Sam Tarly thought he must have dreamt it all, conjured it whole from fever and fear and hunger ... but he would have blurted it out anyway, if he had not given his word.

Three times he had sworn to keep the secret; once to Bran himself, once to that strange boy Jojen Reed, and last of all to Coldhands. "The world believes the boy is dead," his rescuer had said as they parted. "Let his bones lie undisturbed. We want no seekers coming after us. Swear it, Samwell of the Night's Watch. Swear it for the life you owe me."

This is the passage that convinced me that Benjen was not Coldhands. Sam's referring to the fact that Jon's been having dreams about the crypts at Winterfell, then thinks of the fact that Bran's not dead. Had Bran done the whole "Uncle Ben, you're alive?!" thing, Sam would have thought of that part as well, that Jon has both his brother and his uncle still alive though everyone thinks they're dead. The promise he swore 3 times also would have taken place after any introductions, when Sam was leaving to go back through the wall, but he still doesn't mention any recognition on Bran's part. Unless Benjen's appearance changed, I don't think he's Coldhands because Sam would have been thinking about Benjen Stark suddenly reappearing alive (sort of) when Jon starts mentioning his dead family.

[Actaeus86]

i think it would be interesting if benjen was coldhands, but honestly i never thought it was possible till i came to the forums, because i never saw any links. so ill jsut keep assuming that benjen is not coldhands until im proven wrong

[Prince Lotor]

When I first read SoS and for quite a while afterwards, I was completely convinced that Benjen was Coldhands. The last Bran chapter ends with them passing through the gate, but Sam mentions what happened afterwards very briefly a few chapters later:

This is the passage that convinced me that Benjen was not Coldhands. Sam's referring to the fact that Jon's been having dreams about the crypts at Winterfell, then thinks of the fact that Bran's not dead. Had Bran done the whole "Uncle Ben, you're alive?!" thing, Sam would have thought of that part as well, that Jon has both his brother and his uncle still alive though everyone thinks they're dead. The promise he swore 3 times also would have taken place after any introductions, when Sam was leaving to go back through the wall, but he still doesn't mention any recognition on Bran's part. Unless Benjen's appearance changed, I don't think he's Coldhands because Sam would have been thinking about Benjen Stark suddenly reappearing alive (sort of) when Jon starts mentioning his dead family.

That's a good point, I had forgotten that/never put 2 and 2 together. If Coldhands is Benjen then GRRM has some 'splainin' to do.

Someone has to have a better memory than me on this. The Watch found a couple of men who had been with Benjen; they came to "life" and attacked old Jeor. Were there any others with Benjen who have yet to be found? I ask because Coldhands definitely has to be from the Watch (he called same "brother", after all).

[Korax]

Benjen left on his ranging 3 days after Jon reached the wall, and Sam came to the wall even later than that, so Sam's never met Benjen.

When I first read SoS and for quite a while afterwards, I was completely convinced that Benjen was Coldhands. The last Bran chapter ends with them passing through the gate, but Sam mentions what happened afterwards very briefly a few chapters later:

This is the passage that convinced me that Benjen was not Coldhands. Sam's referring to the fact that Jon's been having dreams about the crypts at Winterfell, then thinks of the fact that Bran's not dead. Had Bran done the whole "Uncle Ben, you're alive?!" thing, Sam would have thought of that part as well, that Jon has both his brother and his uncle still alive though everyone thinks they're dead. The promise he swore 3 times also would have taken place after any introductions, when Sam was leaving to go back through the wall, but he still doesn't mention any recognition on Bran's part. Unless Benjen's appearance changed, I don't think he's Coldhands because Sam would have been thinking about Benjen Stark suddenly reappearing alive (sort of) when Jon starts mentioning his dead family.

Yeah this is a good point. The only way it could still be Benjen is if he's completely changed his identity so that he might then reply to Bran along the lines of "I used to be called Benjen but from now on you will only know me as Coldhands". In that case Sam would have a reason to think of him by this name, but it seems more likely that it's someone different.

[L'Sana]

There are two other possibilities that would allow for Benjen = Coldhands to be true:

1. Bran didn't instantly recognize Coldhands as his uncle. Bran's still just a kid, it's been about two years since he last saw Benjen, Benjen has been through some pretty serious trama in the interveneing time which might have altered his appearance, and Bran was expecting Benjen to be at Castle Black not wandering around on the other side of the wall. It's at least possible that the light bulb didn't go on in Bran's head until after Sam had left.

2. Bran did recognize Coldhands, but he chose not to say anything. The description we get of that scene is from Sam's perspective, not Bran's, and so if Bran had been thinking, "Gods! Is that my uncle? What happened to him?" while Coldhands was thanking Sam for bringing Bran and co. down and making him promise not to tell anyone about it. If the time when Coldhands, Sam, and Bran were all together was very brief, it's possible that while Bran knew Coldhand's identity, Sam never did.

I'll admit that I'm biased here: I want Coldhands = Benjen to be true. I want to know what happened to Benjen, and if he isn't Coldhands, my guess is that we'll never hear from him again.

[true wolf]

Yeah this is a good point. The only way it could still be Benjen is if he's completely changed his identity so that he might then reply to Bran along the lines of "I used to be called Benjen but from now on you will only know me as Coldhands". In that case Sam would have a reason to think of him by this name, but it seems more likely that it's someone different.

"Coldhands" is a nickname given by Sam and Gilly. When Sam runs into Bran and company in the kitchens of the Nightfort he sais something like 'we never asked his name, nor did he ask us ours, we just call him Coldhands'. And IIRC CH kept his cloak on over his head, making it difficult for anyone to make a possitive ID. Especially a group of kids that are likely pretty scared/nervous to look at him for too long.

[Raven Queen]

1. Bran didn't instantly recognize Coldhands as his uncle. Bran's still just a kid, it's been about two years since he last saw Benjen, Benjen has been through some pretty serious trama in the interveneing time which might have altered his appearance, and Bran was expecting Benjen to be at Castle Black not wandering around on the other side of the wall. It's at least possible that the light bulb didn't go on in Bran's head until after Sam had left.

2. Bran did recognize Coldhands, but he chose not to say anything. The description we get of that scene is from Sam's perspective, not Bran's, and so if Bran had been thinking, "Gods! Is that my uncle? What happened to him?" while Coldhands was thanking Sam for bringing Bran and co. down and making him promise not to tell anyone about it. If the time when Coldhands, Sam, and Bran were all together was very brief, it's possible that while Bran knew Coldhand's identity, Sam never did.

Third option wuld be that Coldhands' face is covered, or that his appearance *is* altered enough to prevent him from being recognized. Whoever or whatever Coldhands is, he isn't a wight-- or at least, he doesn't seem to have much in common with the wights we have met. We don't know what he is; so perhaps his face is white, or frozen, or otherwise altered and therefore Bran can't recognize him.

I believe that Coldhands is Benjen simply because of Occam's Razor... everyone at the wall goes on and on about the missing Benjen, his body doesn't show up, and then Coldhands shows up dressed in Nightwatch clothing, who takes Bran under his protection-- seems pretty cut and dried.

[Ski the Swift]

If Coldhands isn't Benjen then does anyone think he could be some other brother from the Night's Watch?

[cybroleach]

"Coldhands" is a nickname given by Sam and Gilly. When Sam runs into Bran and company in the kitchens of the Nightfort he sais something like 'we never asked his name, nor did he ask us ours, we just call him Coldhands'. And IIRC CH kept his cloak on over his head, making it difficult for anyone to make a possitive ID. Especially a group of kids that are likely pretty scared/nervous to look at him for too long.

I know eh? That's exactly my reasoning here as well, he's a creepy hooded shadowy figure Sam never even mentions seeing his face, Let alone Sam seeing Bran seeing his face, in the what 2-5 minutes he stayed to when the two met. Yet some people think this is proff positive to disprove one of the only two sinario's that can possibly re-introduce Benjen to the plot. The other being Benjen comming back as an uber weight to battle Jon.

[Still not king]

If Coldhands isn't Benjen then does anyone think he could be some other brother from the Night's Watch?

That's what I think anyway. (He rode out with six men, one of 'em described as a big ugly man singing bawdy songs. Maybe that's Coldhands?)

Benjen could be...incapacitated, is that the word? Sitting in some keep a la Craster's, too hurt to make it outside on his own. Or paralysed, just like Bran. Coldhands not being Benjen doesn't have to mean we won't ever see him again.

*imagines mad Coldhands making a shrine to the dead Benjen*

[Melon]

If Coldhands isn't Benjen then does anyone think he could be some other brother from the Night's Watch?

Ever since i read SOS i allwyas thought of Coldhands as the Night King as Bran is saying all those stories i couldn't see why GRRM would say all that for no reason but that would make him VERY VERY Old. But who's to say that he couldn't live that long.

Well thats my theory any way

[Guest Other-in-law]

If Coldhands isn't Benjen then does anyone think he could be some other brother from the Night's Watch?

I like the theory that coldhands is none other than Brynden Rivers, great Bastard of Aegon the Unworthy, reputed sorceror who slew his half brother with a weirwood arrow, sometime Hand of the King, and Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

[Ser Skywalker]

I like the theory that coldhands is none other than Brynden Rivers, great Bastard of Aegon the Unworthy, reputed sorceror who slew his half brother with a weirwood arrow, sometime Hand of the King, and Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

Where do I find this in the text? (Not that I doubt you, I just want to read it)-thanks

[Jon Blackfyre]

Where do I find this in the text? (Not that I doubt you, I just want to read it)-thanks

Most of the talk of Bryden Rivers, aka Bloodraven, is in The Sworn Sword, the second short novel about Dunk and Egg which takes place about 100 years before the start of A Game of Thrones.

[Sarella]

Brynden Rivers, also known as Bloodraven, is mentioned in The Sword Sword. We only have a tiny bit of info about him which can be found here.

ETA: Jon Blackfyre beat me to it!

[redcandle17]

Ever since i read SOS i allwyas thought of Coldhands as the Night King as Bran is saying all those stories i couldn't see why GRRM would say all that for no reason but that would make him VERY VERY Old. But who's to say that he couldn't live that long.

Well thats my theory any way

Me too. I think the Night's King is Coldhands. That would explain why he knows so much about the Night's Watch and wears the black himself, yet can't pass the protective spells. The stories Bran remembers Old Nan telling and Meera's story are pretty much the only worthwhile things about Bran's chapters in ASoS.

[the silent speaker]

If Benjen Stark is Coldhands, what happened to him to make him Magical Elk Person and allow him to survive in the realm of the Others -- but only there? THere must be more to Coldhands than we know or even can guess.

[Raven Queen]

Bloodraven was also mentioned in passing in AFFC, making him somewhat more "canon" than if he had simply only been referenced in The Dunk&Egg Adventures .

Seriously, though, why would GRRM introduce some long-dead hero/anti-hero type OR some random NW brother when he's been throwing Benjen's disappearance in our faces in every single book since the series began? GRRM shows great character-economy-- he doesn't just pull people out of nowhere. Objectively, it wouldn't make sense for him to have Coldhands be a NW brother, and yet not be Benjen.

(Note: I'm not 100% convinced Coldhands = Benjen, but I am convinced that if Coldhands = NW, then he must be Benjen. Word.)

Coldhands being some random dude named Wat who was sent to the Wall for stealing apples and who we've never heard of before would be a tremendous let-down.