kefln

Really enjoyed the episode. Like most I was heart broken in the lead up and burning of poor Shireen, but it was obvious that she would come to a bad end and the series has been hinting at her fate for quite a while. Will miss her interactions with Davos. Have been waiting for the Meereen fighting pits all season and it was worth the wait. The CGI wasn't seamless, but acceptable. The touching of hands made for an interesting cliff hanger.

posted in wrong thread - sorry!!!! :D

Season comparison 2014/2015 on the same dates: Ratings May 13th, 2014 GAME OF THRONES HBOM 9:03 PM 6399 3.4 BREAK HBOM 9:52 PM 3415 1.8 NBA PLAYOFFS- ROUND 2 L TNT 8:00 PM 4501 1.7 May 4, 2014 GAME OF THRONES HBOM 9:03 PM 7155 3.9 REAL HOUSEWIVES ATLANTA BRVO 8:00 PM 4289 1.9 WATCH WHAT HAPPENS LIVE BRVO 9:30 PM 3923 1.7 May 12th, 2015 GAME OF THRONES HBOM 9:03 PM 6559 3.5 NBA PLAYOFFS- ROUND 2 L TNT 8:30 PM 5030 1.9 REAL HOUSEWIVES ATLANTA BRVO 8:00 PM 2588 1.1 May 11th, 2015 1 GAME OF THRONES-04/26 HBOM 3.5 4.7 1.2 34% 2 TEEN MOM SSN 5-04/20 MTV 1.0 1.9 0.9 90% 3 LIP SYNC BATTLE-04/23 SPIKE 0.8 1.7 0.9 113% In any sense of the word that is called crushing the opposition.

I'm guessing a lot of people would say that there are certain members of the book readers club who "stick their fingers in their ears and shout argument ad populum at the top of their lungs" at any change at all. As for the viewing figures according to everything I've seen they are still holding high. The US Cable ratings has episode #5 down as the most watched program of its time slot, over the NBA play offs. In Europe its ratings are still killing every other show, to the best of my knowledge. So if its still the most watched show on TV...kind of kills your point doesn't it?

:lol:

Tell that to my wife, who has never read the books and never would. During the entire episode she sat quietly watching it all unfold. The last scene her eyes never left the screen, but she did rest her head on the arm of the chair. When the Boltons all had dinner, my wife loved the little smile on Sansa's face when Ramsay was put in his place. When Stannis had that scene with Shireen a couple of weeks back, she delighted in telling me that she knew he wasn't such a bad guy - she's team Baratheon by the way. A show that keeps fans of walks of life glued to the screen, thats good TV. A Fantasy show that keeps people with no interest in fantasy watching, thats great TV.

Exactly. Yes there are dragons, but there is also politics, intrigue and real emotional value to the story. People who would never have picked up a fantasy book are being drawn into these worlds and that is great to see.

I mentioned that very point in another thread. It was fascinating, I watched the show with my wife and got a real insight into how she sees things. While I still have the over all plot points in my head, these little changes are making the season for me.

Discontent is a little like a rolling stone, to use a terribly over used metaphor. In season one its “Oh no, they changed this one thing that I liked”, by season 5 its “they changed a word, it was never sword, it was block”, I’m never watching this sh*t again, the wrong person got raped”. Despite being told that the show will be different, over and over and over again, people have a blockage. Instead of enjoying having a really well made Fantasy show on TV, something that encourages the genre, we have people screaming blue murder. If anyone has ever watched “The Big Bang” where the main characters get really involved in a stupid argument over a comic book character, like how does superman clean his underwear, and the audience laughs at how pointless it is. Well this is it in real life. The reason Sansa was put in that position was to make it personal. So that it would be emotionally tearing for the audience and not just another “read shirt” being tormented by Ramsay. Real emotional tole. We care about Sansa, we don’t want her to get hurt, she does, the Boltons become enemy #1. Stannis becomes hero #1 if he can smash heads.

I think that's the point. The Boltons have hurt someone that we all kinda feel protective of. You don't have to like Sansa to know that she hasn't had the easiest of times. And just when you started to think that things were looking up, she has been put into the worst position possible by the man that she saved last season. But isn’t that what makes a good story? Our reaction to what has happened to this poor girl and our need for her to be saved, avenged or for her to take that vengeance herself?

I gave the episode a 9/10. It kicked you were it hurt and the emotional discomfort left cracks that will take time to heal. Dorne was grand. A little slap stick. Convenient timing, plot rushing. The rest of the show had great pace and time to breath. Tyrion and Ser Friendzone had some solid lines. Another strong character pairing. The KL scenes were tense. Cersei is smirking now, but you can’t help to remember what both Tywin and Tyrion have told her in the past, she really isn’t as clever as she thinks she is. Arya helped to kill a girl. She was beaten with a stick. Was brought into a huge room filled with people’s faces. So much to consider there. Very well put together. And Sansa v’s the Bolton’s. Talk about something that will be debated about for years to come. It was horrible to watch, but it cemented, focused, the audience. The Red Wedding was shocking, but it was a plot of many characters. But the Sansa/Ramsay scene will be burnt into the minds of everyone that watched. A reminder why the show has been so successful. And a great way to play with the heads of book readers who are for the first time really starting to understand what TV viewers have been feeling for years.

They are religious extremists, but they they only exist because of the rich/poor divide. Their over the top preachings/actions/reactions are provocated from the violence and poverty suffered by the poor during the war.

9/10 - Excellent episode. The first episode is always a reintroduction, the second and third build the foundations of how things are going to go, by the fourth things start to roll. And that was the case this week. We had already been introduced to the SOH and the Sparrows, now we can clearly see the dangers they pose to the main characters. Violence and public attacks is a sure sign that all is not safe for those at the top of any government structure. The pacing was better as well. Each scene had time to take breath. Dorne: Bronn and Jaime are another great pairing. It was interesting to watch how close to the bone Bronn got with his comments. And it was good that they highlighted how Jaime’s fighting skills are very poor now. This isn’t a show where the hero switches hands and is instantly just as skilled. Jaime isn’t the man he was. Great to see the Sand Snakes, new characters on screen are always refreshing. KL: Liked the ramping up of the power play between Cersei and Margaery. It shows how desperate Cersei is that she would use such an unpredictable force to destabilise the Tyrells. And poor Tommen, he really is just a boy. LF and Sansa: Loved the backstory exposition and how it really fitted in with Dany’s and Jon’s sections. The tangled web was revealed for non book readers. Also it was a nice reflection of season one, as it was the same spot that we first got introduced to Ned and Roberts relationship and their shared history. Liked Sansa’s puzzled look at the feather and how she is starting to realise just how important a cog she really is. Meereen: Dany and Ser Barristan. It was a lovely scene between them. Like a grandfather telling stories. But what happened next came as a shock. Just didn’t see it coming. It was a great send off for one of the good guys. He kicked a** and took names. It was just too soon. Tyrion and Sir Friendzone was well played. Loved Tyrions comment about not being sober during most of the small councils meetings. The Wall: Mel and Jon was as uncomfortable as no doubt it was planned to be. But hands down Stannis and Shireen stole the show. Nothing else needs to be said.

Did you just call everyone on this site that voted 7 or higher stupid?

That's exactly it. The show is being criticised on all sides. People are saying its too rushed, all the characters from the books aren't being included, aspects of the story are being dropped, but something has to give. They have 400 minutes per season to tell a huge story. They have a dozen characters, in several locations, all involved in separate plots. And they have to resolve everything, the entire story, in the remaining 800 minutes. Something that GRRM has yet to achieve. And he is unlimited in the number of chapters he can write. But rather than finishing the story, he just keeps adding new characters/plots. As different viewers have different favourites the show needs to split its time in a clever way to keep everyone happy. So if they take their top 8 characters allow for 2 extra storylines to run with them, then that is less than 40 minutes per character each season, divided over 10 shows. It’s a lot to cram in. Some story arcs are vast, covering lots of detail, others are fairly sparse. But both stories are important. Both are leading somewhere. So the show needs to trim down and stretch out so that it all works. Its a huge undertaking and again GRRM hasn't managed to resolve it so why are D&D being criticised for doing a great job?

I think its because nearly part of the series is being dissected over and over again. There just seems to be a never ending list of complaints. This character isn't in the series, that line has been left out, this character isn't the same as the book, they are rushing this part, this other thing is taking too much time. Internet trolls have spent years spoiling as much as the can for those that never read the books. It all builds up. For me the series is a TV adaption. It was never going to be the same. Like a lot of people I read the first book in the late nineties and we are still waiting for the story to end. Not to mention that not everything in those books is great. A lot of it could be easily cut. So I don't see the problem in the series giving the whole thing a dust off and new shine. GOT is arguably the best advertisement for why I have spent 30 years or more reading Fantasy. It isn't all about silly men in hats firing lightening blots from their fingers. It can be gripping. It can have real drama. It can have real highs. As far as I'm concerned this is the time for Fantasy fans to come out and promote the genre. Not spend so much time criticising every aspect of every scene. What non book reader didn't cry out during the Red wedding? What non book reader didn't fist pump to "Dracarys". Sayings like "Hodor", "Winter in coming", and "Valar morghulis" are now part of popular culture. People will be misquoting them along with "Luke, I am your father" for years to come. But the hard core fans, the ones that have been into ASOIF for years, seem to spend their time complaining things. I just don't get it.

I gave it a 7. It was another builder episode which is to be expected for #3 of the season. Everything in KL seemed rushed. Which is understandable, there is a lot to get through given the story that they are trying to tell. The wedding was a big step down from Joffreys. It was basically “here you go, they are married”. Really enjoyed the scenes with Margaery. Her manipulation of both Tommen and Cersei are clear signs of her confidence in the waning power of House Lannister and the Queen mother in general. While it did make Cersei more sympathetic, it also increased the tension that she’s under. Her paranoia levels are set to increase and it will be interesting to watch her trying to hold onto the position of “Hand”, while having so little control elsewhere. Arya’s scenes were interesting, yet they felt a little flat to me. While Jaqen is great, I just feel that his on screen presence interferes with her general sense of being lost in a strange place and not understanding whats going on. Its good that they are taking it slow, but I hope it doesn’t start to drag. Tyrion and Varys together are brilliant. Dinklage nails his lines in every imaginable way. While Hill manages to get everything said with a single look. Volantis itself was very good, but again rushed. Day one, they happened upon someone talking about Dany then they happened upon Ser Jorah. The Wall was intriguing. Great scenes between Jon, Stannis and Davos. Like the way the tension built as Jon was giving out the assignments. Interesting that Stannis mentioned that Jon was as unbending as Ned and that it got him killed. Followed closely with the beheading, which was sufficiently shocking to watch, and a nod to the first season and Ned executes a nights watchman.

Given that this episode had a beheading, slavery, women being sold into prostitution, the public beating of a naked old man, assisted suicide, a young girl being pushed into another marriage that she doesn't want and this time its with the family that killed hers. Not to mention that we were also treated to scenes of flayed bodies and charming stories of most of a family being tortured to death. But the big issue is the consensual sex between a man and wife? Granted by todays laws it would be illegal in some parts of the world, but those laws are relatively new to our own society and certainly not against the law in GOT. The scene itself was fairly tame. They were in bed, the overly excited young man with a very attractive woman. But the entire scene had nothing to do with sex. It was all about how Margaery has Tommen wrapped up, just like her grandmother instructed her to do. At this moment the Tyrell's are succeeding in pushing the Lannisters out. It has been made clear before that Cersei gets things done through fear of her name, while Margaery uses charm and mental seduction. Both are powerful, driven, women. But one has the love of the people, the other is hated by most.

After one week of consideration your answer is that the public face of the freed men, not to mention the thorn in the masters side, should be disposed of quietly? One of the most controversial individuals in Meereen does not just disappear. The disappearance of the most politically active freed man in the city would require answers. Not within weeks, but days. Anything but a public announcement as to his whereabouts would result in widespread panic, riots from his supporters and retaliations from the masters. Not to mention the situation with the SOH. If the masters were not informed that justice was carried out over the murder of one of their own, a man that had been in custody, then there would be massive fallout. Not to mention what would happen over the "kill the masters" message written in blood. Give a better solution in how to make the most public figure for the freed men, the one person representing hundreds of years of repression, disappear in a way that doesn't result in thousands of people flocking to the pyramid looking for answers. The public execution resulted in a riot. But everthing was out in the open. The message was clear. Everyone knows why it happened. They don't like it. It caused a massive back lash. Now people know where they stand. There is no conspiracy on Danys side. No festering wound.

Can't imagine there will be too many takers in the short term. I don't find it all that surprising a storyline. The freed men must have a lot of hatred stored up. The desire for payback must be immense. The SOH are working to re-enslave them. Nasty will happen. Dany is caught between a rock and a bunch of angry people. It was only a matter of time before she needed to lay down the law. To paraphrase the late King Robert, it isn't honour that is keeping the peace, its fear and blood.

Pod was in service to Tyrion at the time, I don't remember seeing him in that episode though. But he would have met Sansa many times before and after Tyrion's wedding. I seem to remember Tyrion asking Pod to escort Shae out of the room at one point. As for Little Finger, he was still master of coin while Tyrion was Hand, so again Pod would be very familiar with him. "the Westeros Applebees" - major points for this! :thumbsup:

I think they are going north, they've left the Vale and they can't go south. Arya's story should be really interesting this year. She's been travelling non stop since season #1, ignoring the time she was held prisoner, so it will be nice to see her somewhat settled. There was no sign of Dany in the trailer for episode #3, so I'm hoping they'll spend the extra time with Arya instead.

So you have no solution then...just comments like "precious savoir", idiotic" and "product of incest".

Exactly. The problem with a private beheading is that it would be more inline with what the old masters would have done. It would also be a political hot potato. The public killing of the SOH would raise many questions. As would the words written on the wall. People would demand answers. Would Hizdahr keep it quiet that one of Dany's inner circle, an ex-slave, killed the prisoner? And given that Mossador is the representation of the freed people, if he were to suddenly disappear, alot of questions would be asked. The public manner of the execution was necessary. It was also the worst possible thing to do. But if she hadn't the rippling effects would be much worse in the future. Least people now know that if you f**k with her, no matter who you are, you will be punished.

The Tyrells are second only to the Lannisters in terms of power and wealth. And they are doing their best to take that next step. Remember Cersei fired a warning shot across Margery? The younger woman dared to suggest that they'd soon be sisters, Cersei replied by asking her about the song "The Rains of Castamere", and did Margery know of House Reyne? House Tyrell first sided with Renly and his claim to the throne, he had the numbers and the charm. After Renlys assassination they instantly switched to help the Lannisters. It was a straight deal. Marriage for supplies/armies. Margery herself is very skilled in the art of charm. Where Cersei depends on angry outbursts, Margery gets results by smiling and putting her arms around people. She is also loved by the commoners, as she made a point to be seen giving out food. Where the Lannisters were nearly torn apart by the crowd, Margery was able to walk among them unguarded. And don't be fooled, Mace Tyrell is no more in charge of House Tyrell than I am. Lady Olenna is the one with the brains. It was her that Tywin dealt with when negotiating, it was her that Tyrion dealt with when he was master of coin, and it was she that admitted to poisoning Joffery. The Tyrells are on the up. If everything remained as it is now in the series, what would be the next step? Tommen would marry Margery. After a couple of days of her "winning" him over, he'd declare someone from House Tyrell as Regent until he comes of age. Cersei would be out, reduced to Queen mother, she might even have to leave the city. Lady Olenna set Margery one task, to seduce Tommens mind while Cersei was distracted by the death of her son and the trial of Tyrion. If she is/was successful by the time they are married the Tyrells will be the real force behind the throne and they will have the support of the people. On Dany, the difference is that Mossador admitted to the crime. He admitted to being guilty despite the fact that he had been sitting on her council, representing the freed people of Meereen. This was a man at the very heart of Daenerys inner circle, he had spent time with her, listened to all that transpired in the city and the plans for its future. Had he just gone to the cell and stabbed the man to death, privately, maybe then she would have just punished him. Instead Mossador publicly executed the prisoner, inciting violence with words written in blood beside the body. It was a PR cluster f**k. Had Daenerys done nothing then the SOH cause would be justified. The Masters would read it as they are fair game under her rulership. A freed man that sits daily with the Queen writes “Kill the Masters” in blood and nothing happens? The SOH numbers would have swelled. Taking care of it privately would lead to a city demanding to know what happened. Where has Mossador gone? Was he punished? Why is there no transparency in this new rulership that claims to make everyone equal? What it comes down to is this. The SOH are rebelling against her rule. They murdered someone. The law needed to be enforced. However Mossador used his elevated position, disobeyed a direct order, undermined her politically and probably strengthened her enemies cause. Treason. She needed to make a stand. She was damned if she did and damned if she didn’t. Dany’s real problem is that yet again she has learned that you can’t trust people. Her brother sold her for an army. She saved the healer from being raped and was betrayed with the death of her husband and child. She tried to befriend the rulers of Qarth, that went well. She frees the slaves of Meereen, sits one of them at her table, he betrays her first chance he gets. Her long term friend, Ser Friendzone himself, he was spying on her. Her Dragons are now a like a cruel joke. Chopping off Mossador’s head for treason was a PR disaster. But it was one thrown upon her, it wasn’t a situation of her own doing. The problem she faces is that there is no easy way to resolve the issues of Slavers bay. The bitterness runs too deep. Someone is going to lose. For the first time in their lives the freed men have power and they want revenge. The Masters want control back. Dany is sitting in their way. The easy way would be picking a side, but that would make her more of a Mad King and less like the ruler she says she wants to be.