RedViperHD

I only partly agree. If she had told Jon to expect forces that she wasn't sure was coming then it could have changed the entire strategy for Jon and his army in his favor if the Vale forces did arrive. But it also could have changed the entire strategy for Jon and his army against his favor if Littlefinger did not arrive. Also, how do we know yet that this is what Sansa planned? Sansa was seen at night and I guess we are to believe that she spent the morning either with Littlefinger and the Vale forces or trying to meet up with Littlefinger and the Vale forces. Maybe we will learn that Sansa spent the morning trying to get the Vale to show up sooner than they did? Maybe we will learn that Sansa spent the morning looking for and hoping that the Vale forces would indeed show up. The show established that she didn't have a place in the War Room of her own brother, what are the chances that she is making decisions on military maneuvers for the Vale of Arryn? Almost none. We also know that Littlefinger has an interest in House Bolton being defeated but also taking as much leverage away from Jon and Sansa as possible so he does have an interest in letting as many Stark/Wildling forces die as possible so maybe she was at the Mercy of Littlefinger and his timing decisions? It has always been his plan to strike at either the Boltons or Stannis at their weakest moment on the battlefield during the Battle of Ice. Maybe that's what they talk about next episode? Deep down, I think it's a show mistake. Maybe even it's a planned motivation and Sansa had some of those similar motivations that Littlefinger did? Like maybe some part of her wanted Jon and his army to be at their weakest too in an attempt at an easier power grab somewhere down the road. Maybe Sansa IS truly becoming a bit** or even a villain on the show. Also, did Sansa create that risk? As far as she last heard, the plan was to hope Ramsay would attack head on so that the Stark forces would envelope the Bolton forces. About as good as a plan as a smaller force could hope for in traditional warfare. As far as she knew, that plan was still on. She had no idea that the Starks were going to be fooled into charging the center of Ramsay's line so I'm not sure if Sansa is really "risking" anything. As far as the plan goes, if it were to work then the arrival of the Vale forces would have been just a huge bonus and insurance. Yes of course, any normal person would have told Jon about the getting the support of the Vale. I'm not trying to excuse it. I'm trying to say that we don't know yet if this is a character motivation thing of hers or of Littlefinger or if it just reflects on the quality of writing. We have to give it to next episode, at least, to make that judgement because there are still, at the very least, semi-logical reasons to explain what happened last episode and until those are written off then it's hard to make any final determination on that.

I'm not sure that Sansa is responsible for anyone dying. Just because she requested Littlefinger's help didn't mean that the forces were under her command and doesn't mean that she was making military decisions for them. Isn't it likely possible that even though she was receiving help from the Vale that she probably had no say in how/where/when they'd attack/assist? It was stated a long time ago that Littlefinger's plan for the Vale forces was to let a battle take place and then mop up the victor when they are vulnerable. Maybe the attack would only have worked or worked best when the Bolton's were already out of a formation that would allow them to re-adjust and defend? Yes, she probably should have told Jon but maybe she didn't get the guarantee of the Vale forces or wasn't sure that they'd actually show up/show up on time? Maybe the Vale forces weren't just waiting in the wings to attack, maybe they were just arriving? or if they were waiting in the wings then maybe it was at the command of Littlefinger/Vale Leadership and not Sansa? I'm no defender of D&D or bad writing but this is one point that fans are complaining about that I disagree with over because there are plenty of reasons why Sansa could have not wanted to tell Jon and plenty of reasons why Sansa had no control over the timing of the Vale arrival/charge.

"You want a good girl but you need a bad pussy." That doesn't have anything to do with the books. It has to do with a drop in quality.

Nope. Not a book reader and I thought the season was in a major decline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVCtkzIXYzQ Enough said.

Yes I understand the reasoning or logic behind what happened during the scene of events that took place during the bad writing. I just don't understand why it had to be written so poorly. I mean, I do, shock value.

In comparison to the other characters on this show who have had their families murdered and raped and puppies killed and daughters burned at the stake, Brienne's motivations seem really weak and unbelievable. Other characters that even come as close to being as noble as Brienne then would be Jon Snow and Ned Stark and they are both dead for it. Yet Brienne keeps on beating every great warrior that she encounters.

Lets also note that she is not real. She is not "lucky." It was written that way.

Ok then lets look past the luck angle and lets examine Brienne. What is her arc and what is her development as a character?

Great question. I'd love an answer. It was violence for the sake of violence and pure shock value in both the books and the show. I'm not letting GRRM off the hook here. Poor writing is poor writing. Yet, despite that, Jeyne Poole is not our protagonist that the series has asked us to identify with and care for all throughout it.

Another part of my problem with that explanation is that they used Stannis, a character with complexities and depth to advance the "badass-ness" of redundant Brienne who has no arc and no development and exists on the show only to be politically correct. The show claims to be realistic but Brienne and her story was so contrived and convenient and forced and unbelievable this season. I was willing to buy that she defeated the Hound, but now she by way of dumb luck, runs into another great warrior that she was looking to kill.

Why couldn't she be at Winterfell and not get raped every night? Why couldn't she be at Winterfell only to have the Boltons actually struggle to get the best of her. Why did she have to return to being a damsel in distress? I thought that she was the "new Sansa" starting last season?

In my opinion, the goal of the show should not be to match the books, it should be to create a good show. Again, it added or subtracted nothing from Sansa or Ramsay. and again IF she even needed to be there.

I think a lot of the future of the show will be determined in Casting for Season 6. They really need to choose wisely when they select an actor for Euron because they are going to need an award winning performance to make up for the decline in complex characters. Here is to hoping that it goes well!

Sorry, double post! my bad!

IF Sansa, and that is a big IF, needed to be at Winterfell for some reason to advance her plot or character then I can understand. But even if she NEEDED to be at Winterfell this season, my question is why did she HAVE to be raped every night? Some might say that she needed to be at Winterfell to learn about Bran and Rickon. Weak but ok, I'll buy it. Why did she have to be raped every night? It added or subtracted nothing to either Ramsay or Sansa that we hadn't already seen from either of them. It was pure shock value.

I tend to agree but I feel like I need to say that books and films are two different mediums. Creating a show is more difficult so I tend to give it more leeway than books where you have all the time and pages in the world to create your story. In a show, you need to create interesting and complex characters with arcs just like you need to do in a book but you also have to throw on top of it visual language of cinema to it. I mean cinematography, art direction, camera movement, editing, colors, use of space, lenses, you need to manage a set of thousands of people and still have to rely on other people (actors and performers to do a good job.) It's like writing a book x 1,000. That being said, you can only give so much leeway because films and shows still need to be critiqued to assess their value. I think this season was a disaster. Again, watching Ramsay rape Sansa every night and mindlessly torture people again and again is about as entertaining and artistic as an Eli Roth movie. I don't get it. I thought I was watching Game of Thrones but at moments it felt like I was watching Saw. Watching the Boltons has become like watching Patrick Bateman in American Psycho, only without all the humor to it. I feel like the plots had no real arcs and the characters had less development than seasons before and as far as the technical aspects go, I was umoved by many of the scenes that I should have cried or jumped out of my seat, and I have to say that I think it was because they were filmed poorly. An example is the Olly character. To me, that character just fell flat and he felt like a weird little child murderer from Children of the Corn and less of a character that I felt sympathy for. Maybe it was the lack of screen time with him and Jon? Rome spent all of season 1 establishing that Caesar was a father to Brutus which is what in part made that final scene so emotional. They even had close up reaction shots of Brutus as the other senators stabbed him. Olly just sort of appeared and without any emphasis on his characters emotions, he just came off wrong. Again, I give leeway for shock value in shows because another element to shooting a show/film is that you have to appeal to a wider audience. In a book, you have more leeway to appeal to niche audiences. Again, that being said, I thought overall this season was a decline, and my rating for the show reflects more of my opinion for the entire season than it does just this single episode.

I agree with that though. Sansa was in Winterfell this season for no other reason than to have her character get raped every night and that was for no other reason but shock value and those decisions belong to nobody else except D&D.

Exactly, my critique of the show has nothing to do with the books. I've invested a lot in the show, and I hate to see it continue on with some of the things that went on this season like the Sand Snakes and more Ramsay being Ramsay and more Brienne overcoming everything. On a sidenote, I studied Cinematography in college and I've seen Bladerunner about 100 times. Amazing cinematography, I have hope for this sequel to Bladerunner with Ryan Gosling is as awesome as the original but it will have to live up to an absolute masterpiece of cinematography.

You see, and I am naturally opposed to that opinion because in my opinion, that is insulting to the medium of film. But I do agree with you that the show has declined. Not because it's not faithful to the books but because there was just a lot of bad writing and development and even a lot of bad filmmaking this season.

Finally, I studied film in college. Not literature. I think the show is becoming worse as a viewer, not a reader.

But why do you try and paint me in a corner as someone who just wants the show to be like the books. That is what is so irritating about your opinion. I've only read 1 1/2 of the books and I didn't love the writing. I came to Game of Thrones via the show and I was ok with Ned being killed, the red wedding, and Oberyn being killed. I thought those all added something to the story, but I don't see how raping Sansa every night and having Brienne magically appear in the right spot time and time again added or subtracted anything to the show.

So your argument in regards to the lack of character depth and story arcs is basically, strength in numbers? American Idol had amazing ratings too. Doesn't mean it was quality programming.

You never know. If anyone watched True Detective then you'll remember that there was certainly a spin/marketing team that went around spreading rumors and pointing out little clues about what might happen at the end of the show. It starts and the fans catch on and it spreads like....wildfire!

Just no way. Sorry, but tell me why this series shouldn't be open to critique like any other piece of media?