Coby's Watch

I guess this is rather light fiction, something for a mass audience. Similar to GOT (TV) perhaps

LOTR is awesome and I doubt that there is any scholar in the literary field who denies that. ETA: Fantasy is as discussed as other genre, it is a genre as any other just with the acceptation that it is a very young genre compared to mhhhhh detective novels or the Bildungsroman....

I don't know why you are thinking there is no research. Sorry, I have no idea how to get online library access for Yale (and I would rather do a MLA search) But I know for sure lots of researchers. And Hemingway is great but he represents a different time and genre. From a more academic standpoint, I wouldn’t discuss Hemingway nowadays anymore at least not in an academic paper. In class, yes. However, there has been so much published and it is rather boring to summarize others over and over again. You cannot compare Hemingway and Atwood. We are not talking about classic in the sense of "what you read in school". As far as I am concerned Atwood is highly praised. BTW Atwood is rather not a clear cut representative of fantasy. Don’t know why we are talking about her. She rather blends genre and is more into ecofeminism and dystopian things, sf-style. I can send you my list of literature in fantasy. You can read but it is quite long but includes many recent stuff. However, properly you should first start with Tolkien’s “about fairy tales” and then go with more recent stuff. ETA: "It is not hateful, it is the truth" Are you just able to talk in provocative statements like that? Is your constant LOLing now not hateful, but the truth. I don’t get it. Truth of what? That you rather prefer the show instead of the books? That the books suck in your opinion? Truth that there is no literary canon of fantasy? As I was talking about “hate and anger” I was thinking about the rather aggressive comments you made in this forum. I was wondering why you were LOLing at people instead of counter arguing. Uh moreover, I highly recommend this for the start : http://universitypublishingonline.org/cambridge/companions/ebook.jsf?bid=CBO9781139014625 and perhaps every academic work written by him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Attebery Oh and don't forget to include Clute and Grant's encyclopedia (it is even online)

Sorry, I don't get it. Why the hell are you so hateful? I cannot understand that. All statements you made were so full of anger. Moreover, when you are making a statement like that you should further eloborate on it. So why do you think this will never happen? Do you actually know important researchers in the literary field of fantasy? Do you read current articles in professional literary journals? ETA: what you do is LOL. LOL is not a counterargument. And you are LOLing quite often as far as I can tell or making jokes instead of discussing. I have no problem if I finally have to agree to disagree. However, a discussion serves to understand different perspectives and trying to understand why people think A and others think B. Thus, a discussion can rather be enlightening and refreshing if and just IF one discusses...I am not claiming that I am right all the time. Maybe I am wrong, but please tell me in an appropriate manner.

Oh I felt some kind of secondhand embarrassment during this season because I definitely only watch an estranged plot summary of GOT that was written for a mass media audience. GOT lost its spirit or its motor since the deepness/themes/motivation and characters got lost somewhere on the road. This adaption collapsed in season 5 and all that is left at the moment is a distorted and empty shell of lovely tale named ASOIAF. I am simply disappointed although I can understand that making an adaption is difficult. However, I have the feeling that this show doesn’t even try to adapt anymore. I lost the feeling and I am scared when am thinking about season 6. That’s the reason I will stop watching. I am simply scared that they will destroy my personal enthusiasm and escapism-feeling. But still, I decided to continue reading the GOT threads here since as long as I do not perceive this aborted GOT world visually, I think it will work.

Please don’t get me wrong. I love them too and I love fantasy yes. I mean I wrote my thesis on ASOIAF. I absolutely love it, But that does not mean that the literary canon will include/ or includes ASOIAF into their "list". Unfortunately that is not the case at the moment. I had a hard time finding any literary criticism on ASOIAF that was done by fantasy researchers that are worth citing in a research paper. think there was only one important fantasy anthology that mentioned it in about one sentence. Form a scientific perspective I sincerely hope that this will change, but you never know. See above I explained one aspect of ASOIAF uniqueness. ETA: and I believe there is actually something going on when comes to fantasy at the moment. Especially after Tolkien there was something like an explosion and fantasy as genre lost some kind of its partial negative connotation of children's lit. There are many people that currently are working on Martin on a professional level especially when it comes to dissertation. When Martin finishes his novel there might be again a little explosion (ASOIAF as part of the literary canon) since he clearly differs from current and previous fantasy novels. So I hope ASOIAF will establish itself because I believe it deserves more appreciation. However, it was not the case as I started writing my thesis.

Sorry :P, I edited the part

I think nobody is calling the books a masterpiece or an all time and glorious work of literature in the post-modern era. However, I think Martin greatly suceeded in creating many rich and round characters in his epic. The whole structure of having many focalized characters is unique. Whereas in epic fantasy we nowadys normally can find the structure of a linear plot (in the sense of "characters follow plot" - since yeah we have an epic narrative) we have quite the opposite in Martin's work properly mostly due to the rather realisitc tone. And now I think that the show mostly fails in creating something similar to the TV screen. In GOT, characters aren't fully fleshed out, they are rather one-dimensional aka flat. And what is the funniest thing that they even change their one-dimensional attitude. When Martin avoids to create fantasy's most often used theme of the external struggle of Good versus Evil by making it internal, D&D do rather the opposite. The struggle must always be external for them since I sometimes believe that D&D are afraid of producing a demanding and mature TV series. Tyrion and Varys in ep. 10 was brilliant. I completely disagree here. Thie dialogue came out of the blue since Varys had properly hidding behind a Meereense curtain all the time. Then he simply bombs the scene and tells Tyrion how great he is. Oh and Porne. I cannot say something positive about this Porne Plot except maybe some female body parts. But female body parts shoudn't be the focus. EDIT

I already read that but thank you. it is lovely. Chebyshov and Julia Martell did a great job as always :bowdown: Yes, I think it was 1. boring because I did not feel anything during that conversation, suprisingly for me there was no hype. 2. forced because "uh yeah, 2 fan favs are talking nonsense" and "yeah that must be great" "Tyrion is so great, the first thing I do I will let him into my private chambers, so we can chat, no matter if he is a Lannister or not" (Dany voice) and 3. it simply confirmed that Dany changes her mind in every scene she is in. > This wheel thing sounded like she was trying to break down the system of monarchy while she herself performs the role of a monarch in Meereen.

I agree as I said above that there are different tastes and it has nothing to do with intelligence e.g. a friend of mine as an example. However, in GOT (season 5, partial season4) there is no good dialogue

Hi guys, I just want give my 5 cents. I will stop watching GOT since, for me, it isn’t good television anymore ( I won't explain why, since I think people like Jon Con's red beard or all the rest that participates in the rant and rave thread, already did that) Though I can understand that some of you like it (e.g. special effects, action) However, I too think that people who even apologize the show’s failures/plot holes/character misinterpretation or rather the characters zero characterization are in some way unable to recognize the importance of the journey in fantasy. The journey in fantasy/ASOIAF’s journeys is/are of essential importance. It is not a simple geographical journey, but rather a spiritual journey that enables protagonist to find themselves, to understand certain situations, and to undergo challenges, challenges that will change the protagonist’s perceptions. In this sense fantasy is comparable to the genre of Bildungsroman. Moreover, the journey in fantasy serves as the build-up for the big confrontation at the end. The structure of every fantasy novel is build up like that. First, the reader is introduced to a small group of people, the reader gets to know them. The focus is small in this stage. Then the secondary world opens its focus, the reader gets some world building, new characters, new places. And most importantly some characters will learn about the “danger” (something is wrong in the world they live in, eg. in ASOIAF the consequences of the war, the others). This all happens during the characters’ journeys. This is the build-up. Then later, the focus tightens again and the story is approaching the end. Of course, I admit I was sometimes bored while reading ASOIAF and I confess I didn’t like the Dornish plot during my first read. Nevertheless, I liked the rest and I cannot stop thinking that - for some of you who whole-heartily defend the nonsense that is produced by DD – the medium “book” is wrong for some people since some people simply want to be entertained (in the sense of action, action action, and not thinking, thinking, thinking). Don’t get me wrong it is fine to like films, series, etc that are full of action, less dialogues, less travelogues and stuff like that. I don’t want to offend anybody. I am thinking of a friend of mine. He is highly intelligent but nonetheless prefers low TV entertainment over a good film. He is that type of guy who would never watch the Sopranos or Silver Lighting and prefers 96hours part II. That’s okay. However, he would never seriously defend senseless content, although he is able to detect such content, he simply admits it but still has fun while watching.