ShadowKitteh

It can get so depressing and exhausting here.

Excellent point!

1. Roose let his guard down in the books when he signed his own death warrant by legitimizing Ramsay after he married. If Roose really knows what Ramsay is, why would he give him the Bolton name? 2. Ramsay murdered his father in front of two people in service to his family. The Maester is in service to the Lord of Winterfell. That's Ramsay now, no matter how he got the title. Karstark hates the Starks so he's probably thrilled Ramsay offed Roose, since Roose was dragging his feet about going after Theon and Sansa. Besides, everyone at Winterfell lives with, and serves the freakish Boltons. I don't think they'd be surprised, do you? Who are they going to tell? How are they going to get away from Winterfell to tell anyone? There must always be a giant psycho bag of dicks in ASOIAF. If not Ramsay, whom do you suggest? I mean, we need to meet the next übervillian before karma kicks Ramsay's ass, don't we?

ok - I'm several pages back, so forgive me if this has been discussed to death, but.... Ramsay's behavior seems obvious and SOP for him. Of course he was going to kill Dad, even if it was a girl. A girl means Walda can have more children, which could be male. The possibility of being usurped went up the moment Roose married. Roose signed his own death warrant the moment he married .... anyone, then expedited it when he legitimized Ramsay. As for Walda and the baby? Suicide. She just gave birth, her husband is dead. She went into the kennels, closed the gate, and released the hounds. What does it matter? Everyone at Winterfell knows who they work for. The Boltons are insane. They flay people. Who there would be shocked by anything that happened this episode, enough to attempt to report it, and to who? Ep 9 I believe is going to be the Wildings vs the Boltons for Winterfell. and other mentions I've read so far... Regarding Davos talking nicely to Mel: How would Davos know details about Shireen's death? Who would have told him? The deserters? I don't believe there's anyone else at CB aside from Mel that knows, and I don't see her telling him. Loved the episode. All of it. Loved the opening. Loved Edd being a rock star. Loved that all it took at Castle Black was Wun Wun smashing brains on wall and floor, and only Olly acted like a hero of the NW, because he's a fraking child with dreams, and no perspective. Loved. The standoff with Cersei, and her scene with Tommen. Lena is so brilliant. Loved FrankenMountain smashing that trash talker's head in. Loved Dad Jamie. Loved Jonathan Pryce and the threat. He's so perfect in that role. Seriously best casting (everyone in the show) on TV - or pretty much ever. Nina Gold, please adopt me. Loved Theon and how smart the dragons are! Loved Sansa hugging Theon. Loved Davos and Mel - talking. Loved, "Please." Love that Ghost woke up. Love that he's alone. Naked isn't bad either. Comedy might ensue - there's been a lot of brilliant humor so far this season, and I'm loving it.

No, you can see that blade on the ground in the middle of the ice chips. Remember all the threads with people asking why Sam didn't take it with him? I was thinking about the WW weapon too.... Nice if you want to go around shattering your enemy's steel weapons... but bad if you have to be a WW to make it work.

:D I think you're not allowing yourself to let go of BookJon. Go rewatch the last episode again. The story has completely changed now, because we all know about Hardhome and the Army of the Dead. BookJon, and pretty much everyone else, know nothing about BookHardhome, since in the book, there's not a lot to know. ShowJon knows everything about Hardhome, because he was there, and so were thousands of others. I seem to remember something, how does it go....... "The needs of the many, outweight the needs of the few." Sansa Bolton ≠ The WW & the ARMY OF THE DEAD that is about to destroy the world and every living thing in it, in any way, shape, or form. Oui? How do you give Sansa's current predicament equal weight to what's coming? "Death martches on the Wall." It's almost laughable if it wasn't so unimaginable. If Jon doesn't save the world from the WW and the ARMYOFTHEFUCKINGDEAD, Sansa will not need rescuing, nor will anyone else.... because, oh sorry, you're all dead. At this point, I don't see how they allow him to have that big of an intelligence lapse in order to go after Sansa. Makes no sense whatsoever. We'd also need someone like Sansa herself to deliver the never-ending monologue catching Jon up on what's happened to her since the 2nd episode of season 1, because how/why would he know any of that? (Betrothed to Joffrey, tortured by Joffrey, jilted by Joffrey, betrothed to Loras, betrothed to Tyrion, married to Tyrion, framed for regicide and kidnapped by Littlefinger, who then arranged her marriage to the Boltons.) There's barely enough time in the next two hours to do that, much less everything else they've got to squeeze in - Dany's marriage (I'm assuming we'll see something - or not), the Pit - and all of THAT, Cersei, Dorne, Stannis, Braavos - and the Wall. There's a LOT to squeeze into two hours. Yes, the Boltons helped murder his family, but the Night's Watch doesn't get involved in the petty political squabbles of the 7 Kingdoms, nor do they take sides, and Jon is LC now. It doesn't matter that Sansa is family. He's got way more important things to worry about than one of his half-sisters, who is, at the moment, farther away from and safer from what is about to descend on the Wall. Jon's not a child anymore. He cannot shirk his duties of being LC to go rescue a family member, that really isn't in any mortal danger at the moment when the entire world is about to collapse if the AOTFD get past the Wall. In the book, at this point, Jon hasn't been to Hardhome, and no one really knows what's happened there. There certainly isn't any AOTFD who's about to catch up with them, and end ALL life as they know it (unless we just don't know that yet.) BookJon hasn't lived through ShowHardhome. Anyone who survived that just gained two centuries worth of maturity and experience. ShowJon is years ahead in maturity and intelligence than BookJon. If D&D can make the things that BookJon does make sense for ShowJon to do, then it will be as close to the books as they can get. I just don't see how they do that now, after Hardhome. If Jon makes any other choice than to save the world - at this point AFTER SHOW HARDHOME and the AOTFD it's not going to make any sense, and it will make him look as if he's suddenly has brain damage, and gets distracted easily - SQUIRREL! The next thing he needs to do is get Stannis and the Boltons to wake up to what's coming, and HELP. They may pull it off..... I just can't see how. Which makes it sooooo much fun! EDIT: I forgot to say, yes, they've made Alliser into a giant dick, but he's still an experienced Brother of the Night's Watch. I think they've given Olly more than enough scenes to establish him for stabby stabby because, "The Wildlings killed my mom & dad." No pink letter/Sansa drama needed. If there's no Pink Letter, it also opens Theon to be a bigger hero.

Thank you! rwar! :cheers:

I agree with everything except, Jon went to Crasters to kill or capture the mutineers, not search for Bran. I said this earlier, but I think it would be awesome for the show to skip stabby stabby altogether, since it makes little sense now, and visually, it will be death-overkill, along the lines of things that break the internet and people like to go crazy over (too much rape/boobs/vagina/Olly, etc) due to Hardhome, the Pit, Shireen(threat or real), Battle of Winterfell, and the thousands more that will likely die in the next two hours (Loras? Myrcella? Tommen? Jorah? Balon Greyjoy (finally)? We know Yara is showing up.) If they're going to have the Pink Letter be the catalyst for Jon to leave, (even though at this point I can't imagine anything making Jon leave short of abandoning the Wall, and getting everyone as far south as south goes), that would be the only reason brothers other than Olly would turn on Jon now. Otherwise, it will most likely be just Olly, Jon not even discussing leaving, because, "Wildlings killed my Mum and Dad." I really feel there will be no Pink Letter. Think about it, the way they've so carefully orchestrated Jon's overall arc from bastard boy wanting to come with his uncle ranging north of the Wall, to attempting desertion to join Robb... to being the strong, obvious choice for Lord Commander of The Night's Watch and Savior of the North (ShowJon is light years beyond BookJon at this point because of ShowHardhome ), "I will live and die at my post." If the show did anything to suddenly break that - they'd have to do it extremely carefully - and even then, I don't know if it would be possible for it to not look insane. I just can't see Jon saying, "Oh noes! I've got to go save my half-sister from her lawful husband who happens to legally rape her every night. Fuck my vows and that saving the world and mankind shit." Even if those aren't the exact words, they'll mean the same. It also makes Jon Snow suddenly an imbicile, and leaves the audience feeling like one. Jon must save the world. Because if he doesn't, Sansa and everyone else everywhere, including Jon, will be stone cold dead. :eek: I think even many of the unsullied feel that the foreshadowing of Olly attempting to hurt Jon is over the top at this point. The show also runs the risk of the audience getting to the point of expecting a major character to die at the end of every season. If the show skips stabby stabby, the book readers will be spared probably the biggest spoiler ever - how Jon lives - because as now we know, he always comes back. Well, if he never gets stabbed in the show, the book readers get to find out how he doesn't die without the show spoiling that. Killing Mance, and having Tormund beat Rattleshirt to death, was D&D's way of telling the bookreaders - "NO GLAMOURING. We'er killing this plot, and all would-be plots (Jon/Mance glamour theory.) If Jon was going to warg into Ghost, we'd know Jon's a warg by now. Although....... if stabby stabby happens, and as Jon falls his eyes roll white, that would indeed break the internet. I have hope that LS will break the internet. I personally, would like Mel to be the one who stops Olly from Caesaring Jon, and no one ever utters the words, "For The Watch" because that would be completely out of place at this point after Hardhome. If Thenns can learn to get past their hate, no reason the Night's Watch can't, especially because HOLYFUCKINGSHITARMYOFTHEFUCKINGDEADBEHINDYOU!!! Jon being at Hardhome and HFSAOTFDBY changes everything. For me, anyway. :unsure:

One Bazliion points for Serenity/Firefly reference. :wub:

Not only do I think there's no time for anything like the pink letter in the two hours that's left of this season, but now, after the ARMYOFTHEFUCKINGDEAD and the Fate of All Mankind, after Hardhome, Jon has zero reason to leave the wall short of SAVING ALL OF HUMANITY. His half-sister doesn't hold a candle to that. Jon didn't leave the Wall for Robb and a WAR when he was young and stupid. Why would he leave it for Sansa when he's now the LC and he needs to help SAVE THE WORLD? I guess for me, leaving the Wall for Sansa, NOW, seems almost laughable, and no longer fits the plot because #ARMYOFTHEFUCKINGDEAD. It worked fine in the books when it wasn't even Arya (who he was far closer to), because Jon didn't go to Show Hardhome, and the books didn't have the show's Army of the Dead. Show Jon went to Show Hardhome and fought Show Army of the Dead. Jon's mission, Jon's victory, Jon's proven worth as LC. The stakes for the Show World are a bazillion times higher now for everyone and everything, more than Book World at this same point. They know MORE about the real enemy now. Nothing else should matter. Because if Jon and Co can't start saving the world immediately, it won't matter if he saves Sansa. If they go ahead with the Pink Letter, I hope they save it and stabby stabby (if it even happens), for next season so it's not rushed, or lost with all the other big stuff coming in the next two hours. (Ramsay, Roose, Stannis, Shireen, Mel, Selyse, Yara, Mace, Meryn, Arya, Dany & the Pit, Cersei, FrankenStrong, Jamie, Bronn, Doran, Myrcella, the Sand Snakes, and everyone at the Wall.)

Best ep of the season. Best 17min of television action I've ever seen. Blackwater was awesome. This was better. And I hate zombies. Silly monsters. Loved this. Alfie Allen needs an Emmy and an ACTOR. Ramsay needs to DIE, after he betrays his father. (However, it would leave a weird hole to not have a total sociopath in the story - yet.... the entire ARMY OF THE DEAD might make all that look silly now. Timing.) Lena needs an Emmy and an ACTOR, too. Septa has the creepiest, velvety, creepy, smooth, creepy, musical, creepy, low, creepiest voice ever. "Confess." The Dany and Tyrion road show is going to have the most comedy yet. I can't wait for the spin off! I laughed more in this episode, to all the awesome one-liners, than any ep before. "Fuck 'em. They're dead." That is a record for me for falling in love with a character on the show, them seeming like a new main character, then in the space of 15 min they turn into a red shirt. DAMMIT! WE LOVE NotVal! FUCK YES JON AND LONGCLAW!!! I SCREAMED AT MY TV!!!! So. Awesomely. Perfect. Edd lives! Night's King recognizes Jon. Holy fuck. I don't know...... I'm so confused by the repercussions in the last few eps that I'm not sure what's going to happen. No, I'm neither drunk, nor high. No, I don't have a head injury. But it won't surprise me if there is NO STABBY. Oh sure, Olly might think about picking up a knife off of a table, but then doesn't because Ghost growls at him, or Mel stops him, which is why she goes back to Castle Black - to save Jon before anyone gets stabby - because she saw that in the fire, along with Hardhome. I'm starting to feel like they've over-foreshardowed Olly to the point they might just be trolling book readers. In the books we never see what happened in Hardhome. We never really get much detail either. I think D&D(&B, let's face it), have already *broken the internet* and we just don't know it yet. 1. Olly, Olly, Olly. Keeping bookreaders calm that the plot is still relatively heading in the right direction, with all the main stops along the way. But Olly/Brutus seems to almost have a learning disability concering what Jon's doing. Obvious is beyond obvious now. I'm thinking this is a troll. 2. Hardhome. 3. Hardhome. 4. Hardhome. 5. Everything has changed because of show Hardhome. Everything. (To me, anyway.) 6. In the books.... Jon never went to Hardhome. Jon sent people. Everything in the show changed when Jon went to Hardhome. 7. Show Hardhome. Jon's plan. Jon's mission (against the objections of his 2nd in command.) Jon's victory. Jon's proof at leadership. Jon killed an Other. He saved hundreds? thousands? (how many ships?) of people. The Wildlings owe him their lives. It's too BIG of a win at this point for any REAL BROTHER to even think about FTW. Unsullied would be too confused. There's an ARMY OF THE FUCKING DEAD. Endless renwable energy. Riders need to be sent out to the corners of the entire known world ASAP to find those DRAGONS (ravens dying in snow would be bad.) Sure, Alliser is scowling down at him...... and it wouldn't surprise me if he actually breaks into a SMILE in the next frame or two, but we know they let them through, we see Jon inside CB in some preview photos. Think about it - Mance is DEAD. Tormund beat Rattleshirt DEAD. Tormund also beat dead the whole glamour Jon/Mance theory that still might play out in the books. This might be a great way to allow the show NOT to spoil something pretty damn huge in the books: How Jon lives. If Jon doesn't get stabbed in the show, there's no mystery in the show, and no book spoilage of Jon's awakening if we don't get TWoW before season 6. Sam's, "He always comes back." is a bone to the readers, that Jon does just that, which we all mostly knew already, but this confirms it, and we know it. (yes, you do.) Hardhome has even changed the Pink Letter. Either there won't be a Pink Letter, or Sansa will write it, not Ramsay. Jon's "challenge" will be how to get Sansa out of Winterfell without seeming to care about taking sides, and worrying AT ALL about anything other than that HOLYFUCKINGSHITARMYOFTHEDEAD..... Seriously. He didn't leave and join Robb. He's older and a metric shit-tonne wiser now. After being AT Hardhome, how can Jon even think about leaving the Wall for any reason, unless it's leading everyone "As far south as south goes"? How do we even get a Pink Letter after Hardhome and the ARMYOFTHEFUCKINGDEAD? "Dear Jon, Please help me! They made me marry Ramsay - Imma Flay You Baby - Bolton née Snow, and he's very rapey and scary. And they broke Theon. Love, your half sister, Sansa P.S. Getting me the fuck outta here sooner would be good. hugz Oh and, Bran and Rickon are alive." I'M SORRY - I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THIS ARMY OF THE FUCKING DEAD AND THE FATE OF ALL MANKIND! He'll have to send someone. Or we deal with all of that next season. Seems a lot of business to put in with the other stuff we're getting in only two episodes. Or perhaps, Jon's "challenge" is, since Maester Aemon is dead, to part with Sam, and send him (and Gilly) to Old Town, and then, "HOLY FUCK WHAT DO WE DO NOW?" How do we get stabby stabby after ARMY OF THE DEAD? Hhmmm.... stabby-stabby or ARMY OF THE FUCKING DEAD AND THE FATE OF ALL MANKIND? I think Drogon will be this next episode, and no-stabby + LS will be the end of ep 10, and break the internet. We could then get stabby-stabby at the beginning of next season....(a year to soften following Hardhome), which NOT having it now, would still break the internet. Or...... They burn Shireen. That will break the internet. I'd rather see Selyse try, and Mel and/or Stannis insist it be Selyse instead. It's still a female, and it will break the internet. Or...... I've got an over-active imagination, and everything happens more or less like it did in the books. And I still have hope for LS. At this point, everyone's head would explode, especially book readers because most have given up. 2nd best troll ever for D&D&B. (1st is Rick Astley rickrolling the world at the Macy's parade.) :D

D&D&B's way of telling the book readers, "NO. We're NOT glamouring EVER in the show. Faceless Men won that race." ? :dunno:

Have you ever had these same problems with Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet due to the protagonists' age? Why put 21st century western social contraints and sensibilities on a Medeival fantasy world?

...for YOU. Females watch this show too. Please don't start some insane #gamergate insanity here, as if you out number us 10 to 1. You don't. Not here, not with the show, and certainly not in RL.

OMG this so needs to happen in the comedic spin-off version of the show!

Why? GRRM does it constantly..... wargs-a-plenty, Thoros bringing back Beric then bringing back Cat, Starks doing their own executing, dragons set things on fire.... GRRM does a lot of precedent-setting. D&D are just doing the same.....

:agree:

Funny, I had just the opposite reaction. Calling for his sword was much more personal, and powerful than a block, for the Unsullied, because it immediately made clear he would be the one carrying out the sentence. I didn't think Jon was 'casually continuing to drink, then casually went outside.' I didn't see anything casual about it. I saw a young man who was forced into the position of taking a man's life due to insubordination and disrespect over a very long period. Kit played the conflict of the situation to perfection. Even up to the end when Slynt was begging of mercy. Brilliant and very satisfying scene. Not to mention some amazing effects for that beheading angle.

This. Well said. Besides, I think a combo Ellaria/Arianna will be more interesting than either the two of them individually. Things I loved this ep: - Alliser and Slynt realizing they've been outplayed by facts and deeds, and the better man won. (Love Aemon!) - Pod. Just love him. - Kevan telling Cersei to fuck off. - Arya decapitating a pigeon. - A Man's return, makes a girl very happy. - Professor Shireen. In a perfect world, they'd send her to the Citadel. Seriously! Smart girl, get thee to Old Town at once! - Jon Snow giving STFU face to Stannis regarding his mercy to Mance. - Love Alex Siddig as Doran. Well, I just love Alex Siddig. - Love that Drogon wants to be a lap kitteh. Awe!!!

Because while I disagree with most everything he writes, he's hilarious in the way he does it, and it's a thread titled - "[book Spoilers] EP502 Discussion" ...and that was exactly what it is.

They're obviously having to condense plot lines, and that means condensing characters too. IMHO - this is better, since we known and love Indira, and we don't have to get to know and remember yet another of the eleventy-bazlillion characters George adds. I also think it makes Ellaria a far more realistic character to be in the mood she's in, and not some perfect peacenik, which would hardly play truthfully at this point. I'm sure the Unsullied fans would find peaceful Ellaria hardly believable, and blame it on lazy writing. I find show Ellaria is much more interesting than mostly-one-note book Ellaria.

To be fair..... you don't know what they're making up, or that it will make no sense.... because George hasn't finished the story, and none of us have any idea what he's told D,D,&B, and what he hasn't. Just like people last week jumping to conclusions that the short Maggy scene would be all of we see of her, when we'd only seen an hour of a 10-episode season. I personally think we'll get more of that one Cersei gets taken into custody. They'll need some stuff to accentuate her growing insanity, and that memory is a perfect way to do it. And if we don't get more, so what? The Valonqar is a huge bag a spoilers. You might be right, and none of the plot lines will make any sense whatsoever, the show will suck, crash and burn, HBO will cancel it, and then you'll be happy that there's nothing more for you to complain about. I, for one, have been happy with all the changes, and so far they make a lot of sense, and many have been improvements (for me, considering it's a TV show and a much different way of storytelling) over the books. So I trust them at this point. Are there things I miss from the books? Of course. But nothing to the point that the story doesn't make sense. I'm still enjoying the hell out of it, and look forward every week to the next episode.

While I disagree with many of your points, I love your writing, and laughed, loud, because I understand them. Bravo, Ser.