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Dragons dance with Wolves

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  1. Dragons dance with Wolves

    Daenerys should have supported Jon’s claim

    Rewind back to Season 7 when Dany asks Jon’s advice on King’s Landing. He advises against burning the city.
  2. Dragons dance with Wolves

    Daenerys should have supported Jon’s claim

    Drogon allowed Jon to touch him and receive affection, something that attracts Dany to Jon as no one else has been able to do that. Only Targaryen’s in modern Westeros could ride dragons. Jon rode Rhaegal multiple times... Dany finds out about his heritage after Jon has already rode Rhaegal. She knows in her heart that it’s likely true. And if she wanted validation, reading the grand septon’s diary would’ve confirmed it for her. Jon face plenty of combat himself, and proved himself, otherwise he wouldn’t have the North and Wildlings following him. It’s disingenuous to say Jon wasn’t deserving of we’re talking purely about accomplishments in the context of a royal bloodline.
  3. Dragons dance with Wolves

    Jon's first chapter

    Was anyone else disappointed about how big Jon’s identity reveal was built up end of Season 7 and it’s importance in Season 8? It’s a huge tension point for Jon and Dany that actually should have been a point of relief. Jon’s actually legit and has true blood family on his Targ side. When Sam tells Bran what he found, then they spill the beans to Jon, Jon to Dany, Jon to his sisters (cousins) and then Sansa to Tyrion/Tyrion to Varys.. the tension builds up so dramatically where you feel like Westeros will finally find out who Jon really is, only for Varys’ letters to never leave Dragonstone? It just seemed like a huge letdown in the plot. Jon has been so upset by the thought of his mother abandoning him and he finds out she not only didn’t abandon him, but he’s much more important than “some bastard” — something his peers could appreciate. It makes me think Sansa didn’t really want Jon on the throne. If she did, she would have told more people than Tyrion to have them back him specifically. The word just never really “got out” to the mass of Lords.
  4. Dragons dance with Wolves

    Jon's biggest error?

    To be fair, if not for Jon convincing Dany to go North, the Night King never slays Viserion and gets his zombie dragon to break the wall. It’d taken a lot longer for the dead to cross the Wall.
  5. Dragons dance with Wolves

    Why are they plotting a coup?

    When you conquer lands, you need help maintaining control of those lands. Typically common folk respond better to another local leader. Genghis Khan would acquire talented retainers through defeating their liege lords in battle and installing them in a position of leadership. Tarly demonstrates he’s a capable military commander, and upjumping him to the Tyrell position who had already joined her cause (now dead) could motivate him to switch sides and replenish/resupply her growing army.
  6. Dragons dance with Wolves

    Why are they plotting a coup?

    Tywin said it best in Season 3. Anyone who needs to say they are the king is no true king. Same applies to Dany reminding everyone every 5 minutes that she is the rightful Queen of Westeros. Inspire allies to join your cause, don’t throw a tantrum and threaten to burn them alive if they disagree with you. The Tarly executions after the Tyrells were extinguished was a poor move. Why not respect his courage in battle and offer to raise Randyll Tarly to Lord Paramount of the Reach? If he accepts, you have overnight turned the 2nd largest army in Westeros from your enemy to your cause. Dany earned her spurs in Essos the hard way. She expects the red carpet treatment in Westeros and it didn’t happen. Jon on the other hand was elected by his own people without his request. That’s a true leader. Lead by example and your people will follow.
  7. Dragons dance with Wolves

    The Last of the Disappointments?

    I’ve been reading through all of the feedback on last episode’s threads. We can all debate why stuff doesn’t make sense or why we like or dislike the outcomes, but I think the reality is D&D have been exposed as poor television producers and or writers. Once they ran out of the confines of GRRM’s actual novels to adapt from, the quality of the show and storyline had progressively declined. I thought Season 6 was a letdown, sans Battle of the Bastards and the L+R=J reveal, which GRRM confirmed. Chalk it up to every great show can have a bad season so we continued to watch. Season 7 seemed to pick back up a bit and showed some promise, but still choppy. And here we are in Season 8...
  8. Dragons dance with Wolves

    Why are they plotting a coup?

    One can dream..... I know production cost is high, and we have limited “real estate” to finish the story for the show version, but the writing and character decision-making just seems so rushed and sloppy. They took characters that they spent 7 seasons developing, only to have quite a few of them do an about face 180 with impulsive responses. Jon has historically show himself to be a capable military commander and yet he decides to let Dany “do it her way”. You told your commanding officer of the Nights Watch to let the Wildlings through the wall... hard but correct truth. You won’t sack up and tell Dany to settle down and use her brain for a second?
  9. Dragons dance with Wolves

    Why are they plotting a coup?

    What’s astounding to me is for all of Dany’s charisma when her game face is “on”, she’s so quick to throw a temper tantrum when she doesn’t get her way. And when she doesn’t get her way immediately, she overreacts negatively into making poor decisions. She has zero proficiency in offensive military tactics other than hopping on Drogon and trying to provoke fear. She’s relied on her Dragons and large numbers to intimidate her opponents, and hasn’t seen a real battle against Westerosi. The only two Westerosi military minded commanders she had died between Selmy and Jorah. She also forgot Jorah’s famous words: “To win Westeros, you will need support from Westeros”. I mean she didn’t even use common sense — army is tired, rest. She complains Cersei’s forces grow stronger the longer she waits, but the bulk of Cersei’s forces are sellswords. When the gold runs out, they go home. The longer the fight, the greater the advantage for her forces. What’s worse is Jon and Dany split their forces and plan to meet up with Dany taking the Navy to White Harbor. Your most experienced naval troops in Yara and her IB retook the Iron Islands, so you’re sailing with minimal captains who are probably little more than ferrymen transporting Dany’s ground forces. You know Euron has the naval advantage and numbers. As Ramsey Bolton said, the Kraken in the water is mighty and powerful, but take him out of the sea and he’ll be crushed under his own weight. The way I see it, if you want to attack sooner rather than later, two ways to go about it: 1. The longer way: Work your way South by land, and rally troops to replenish your army from the houses who support you in the North, Eyrie, Riverlands. At this point you can crush the Westerlands to cut off Lannister reserves or try to sway who is left at the Rock with Jaime and Tyrion’s support. Try to gain the support of the remaining lords in the Reach, Stormlands and Dorne that despise Cersei, and attack King’s landing by land with the significant larger force. or... 2. March your entire offensive force South and create a siege as Jon suggested. Use Tyrion and Varys’ vast knowledge of the bowels of the Red Keep to take a silent strike force during nightfall like Grey Worm and Daario did with Astapor, and kill the men on the main gate’s towers manning the scorpions. Have the Dragons swoop in from up high once they’re disarmed and destroy the scorpions and burn a couple of holes in the walls of the keep. Then pull back the Dragons, and charge your Dothraki and Vale cavalry first, followed by infantry through the gates to storm the city. Either of these methods prevent a long siege that starves the common folk and prevents Euron’s naval advantage, forcing the ironborn to fight on foot. Dany lets her impatience and hubris put herself in a poor position, down Rhaegal, her best friend, and several ships. She even marches on the gates of the Red Keep without Jon’s forces trying to make peace with a psychopath. Dany May be a capable ruler, but she sucks at War, and is uneducated on how politics in Westeros actually work.
  10. Dragons dance with Wolves

    Why are they plotting a coup?

    Watch Dany’s facial expressions and listen to her tone when she pleads with Jon not to reveal his true identity to Sansa and Arya. She knows he really is Aegon, yet is jealous of the treatment he receives from the North the way she got the red carpet Essos. Her pleading starts off sincere and ends with a command and eye daggers. Dany has some crazy to her when she doesn’t get her way. Foolish not to rule jointly with Jon through marriage. She’s so hellbent on this throne she marches/sails a depleted a tired army into a prepared force for the sake of trying to land a quick KO punch. Sansa’s suggestion on resting and recovering was sensible, and yet dismissed. They just beat the army of the dead, and she wants to run South for a chair that isn’t worth a darn.
  11. Dragons dance with Wolves

    So what does Jon Snow do now??

    So much hate on Jon Snow in the show post Season 5, but let’s look at his arc...Show Jon was the first guy to kill a wight on the Night’s watch. He did successfully kill two white walkers, one at Hardhome, and another ranging north of the Wall. He was elected Commander of the Night’s Watch at a very young age. He has a charisma about him that has earned the respect of various leaders of men, including Jeor Mormont, Mance Rayder, Stannis Baratheon, Tormund Giantsbane... even Danerys... he’s had quite a few excellent moments in his character development and he shows courage not only physically but mentally as well. He may not always make the right decision, but he does learn from his mistakes and is aware of them. I’d argue that’s what makes him a good leader. Without Jon, Winterfell never gets recaptured from the Bolton’s and the North doesn’t rise against Cersei again. Sansa deserves a lot of credit too for surviving what she did and powerbrokering her relationship with Littlefinger into essentially de facto control of The Vale, but without Jon, she doesn’t make it that far.
  12. Dragons dance with Wolves

    [Spoilers] EP706 Discussion

    That's a good catch. I thought i noticed the maester's face too. Only time will tell if we were right!
  13. Dragons dance with Wolves

    [Spoilers] EP705 Discussion

    Can Dany or Jon relieve Sam of his vows at the Wall? Sam becomes Lord of Horn Hill, an intelligent Lord, loyal to the crown at that.
  14. Dragons dance with Wolves

    [Spoilers] EP705 Discussion

    Was anyone else pissed off that Sam was too self absorbed in his frustration that he didn't take notice that Rhaegar's marriage was annuled and another service was held in secret on Dorne? I sure hope lil Sam hung onto that book. To me, the Gendry reunion and Jon Targ confirmation were the best parts of the episode. All in all it was a great followup to s7e4. Jon can't get back to Winterfell soon enough. I want to see the Northern lords reaction when they find out the King in the North really is the king. Side note: how will Ghost feel?