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Everything posted by zoenerys

  1. I'm currently reading SOS for the first time. I have to admit I've already skipped ahead and read all of Sansa's chapters awhile ago . Anyway, my question is, when Sansa and Littlefinger are on the boat together, why does she not ask him about her best friend Jeyne Poole? It's easy to miss but this exchange happens in her POV Sansa IV AGOT After this Jeyne is removed from her room and she never hears from her again. She and LF haven't had much interaction at this point so I would think the last time she saw/spoke with him would be fresh in her memory upon seeing him again. I feel like her not asking after Jeyne could be important in some way. Or just a plot hole. I'd love to get other people's thoughts!
  2. Yes, it is victimizing, because that's what she is in all of this, a victim. I can totally understand wanting Elia to have some power over her love life and headcanon-ing that, but I have a problem with this segueing into absolving Rhaegar of his responsibility in all of this. She is literally blamed by everyone that's not related to her in-verse for Rhaegar going off with Lyanna. Even Dany thinks she must've been a horrible person for Rhaegar to have done that to her. Giving him a valid reason such as an affair for him to abandon her and their kids for a year is so unfair. She did nothing wrong to deserve this treatment. Her cheating on him would validate everything he did in this situation. I'm not having it. Also, why Arthur Dayne, of all people? Why would she choose him? He was Rhaegar's best friend and closest confidant! Not only that but he literally died following Rhaegar's orders, Why would either of them do this? I don't see this pairing at all. RE: the pact of ice and fire, that is a good point, but I was thinking of the people that are actually alive right now (well....Aemon is not alive right now, but he was still in the main books lol).
  3. I don't understand why people are theorizing that Elia had an affair??? It's so unfair and victim blaming. Elia was a total victim in all of this and trying to sully her name by saying she had an affair is just horrible. On the topic of whether Rhaegar loved Lyanna or was just using her. I think he did (love her), or at least some sort of strong infatuation. I think the reason he chose her in the first place is because he loved her. There are subtle clues that make me think this: the naming of the tower of joy, and, the fact that he said her name when he died. You would have to be Ramsay Snow level of psycho for him to do these things for a woman he brutally tortured for a year. He couldn't of known that Stark+Targaryen would be such a potent combination. I've seen people theorize this but I see no evidence. Everyone in-verse thinks the song is ice VS fire, not ice AND fire mix. Do you know what I mean?
  4. YESSSS 100%. I feel the bold point is often overlooked by everyone. Just because someone goes willingly doesn't mean they stayed willingly. If Rhaegar and Lyanna were so happy and in love that Lyanna truly wanted to be in the TOJ the whole time, why have 3 armed guards outside the door so that no one could leave/enter? Lyanna was in my mind manipulated/groomed/seduced by this older more powerful man and when she realized what had happened it was too late.
  5. zoenerys

    Wouldn't it have been cool if...

    ^^^Exactly. Joffrey doing it would've lead to him having a horrific death. I doubt he would want his children to see that.
  6. zoenerys

    Why Drogon?

    Why is Drogon Daenerys' mount and not Rhaegal or (particularly) Viserion? Is it because he's named for Drogo, her first husband? Viserion is clearly the mama's boy of the group as far as I can tell. I don't understand why she wouldn't pick the one who is the most bonded to her. Maybe it has to do with the stallion that mounts the world prophecy?
  7. zoenerys

    Jon Snow's Real Name

    I agree with the above posters about Jon's true name being Jon and not some Targ name. Ned was his true parent IMO. I don't believe he would ever accept Rhaegar as his father or replace Ned with him. No way.
  8. I was rereading a Sansa chapter in GOT for fun and I caught this comment: Everyone else from the Stark household, besides Sansa Stark herself, were killed, but for some reason Jeyne was saved. Later on Boros or Meryn (i don't remember which), commented that they didn't know what to do with her. They obviously settled on putting her in Sansa's room. Cersei immediately demanded her to be removed from Sansa when she found out. So clearly they weren't ordered to keep her there. I think that by this point, The Hound's loyalties have started to switch to Sansa. Another thing is the parallel of Sandor and Littlefinger. Sandor saves Jeyne's life and after Littlefinger dooms her to a fate worse than death.
  9. zoenerys

    The hound saved Jeyne Poole

    I have to disagree. He has no problem molesting Sansa, clearly, but no way would he force her to go all the way, and, I really don't think actually having sex with LF would help her manipulate him in any way. It would actually hurt her, and here's why: it's not the deed that gets him off, it's the chase. The reason he wanted Cat so badly is because she was emotionally unavailable to him. It's like Robert and Lyanna. He wanted her so much because he couldn't have her. He would've forgotten Cat had she actually loved him back and he would throw Sansa away just the same. The best option for Sansa to manipulate LF would be for her to be to never consummate the relation.
  10. zoenerys

    The hound saved Jeyne Poole

    Oh, he cared alright. I personally think that LF's "love" for Cat reversed after she didn't respond to his letter, and became hate. He's still obsessed with her, but is extremely bitter that she dared to reject him. I think Lysa's comments to Sansa about Cat's (alleged) treatment of LF back in the day are very telling on how Petyr himself feels. In his mind, she purposely played and enjoyed making a fool of him. There's nothing he can stand less than being played. His ego will not allow it. He must have the upper hand, always. His superior intelligence must prevail. Another example of this is with Tyrion, At first involving him in his plot was nothing personal, but after Tyrion outsmarted him with that SR ploy, it became very personal. LF actively tried to harm Tyrion because of this. It was because of Jaime intervening that he wasn't killed.
  11. zoenerys

    The hound saved Jeyne Poole

    This is off topic and might be controversial, but IMO, Littlefinger wanted Sansa right from the beginning. When he first set eyes on her at the tourney. Seeing Sansa opened up so many new opportunities for him, that he could barely contain himself when speaking to her. He didn't replace Cat with Sansa in the eyrie, he did it in Kinglanding. Remember, Cersei's thoughts to herself that LF asked for her hand in marriage before she was married to Tyrion. Ergo, Cat was still alive! He literally gave no shits about Cat anymore. It was all about Sansa and grooming her. Cat has too much baggage. Sansa is a blank slate in his mind.
  12. zoenerys

    The hound saved Jeyne Poole

    He got Harrenhal because of a successful negotiation of the Tyrells. He didn't get Harrenhal before that. Yes, of course, but Sansa doesn't know that! She was locked in her room at the time. She was kept in the dark about alot of things going on in Kingslanding (her marriage to Tyrion for example). He does do something. Only when he gets Sansa in his clutches, away from everyone in KL who might get in the way. He immediately tells her "Dontos was a drunk who would betray you, don't worry about him. BTW I loved your mother. I took her virginity. You can totally trust me! Who cares if Tyrion was innocent? He gang raped his first wife, and would do worse to you, given time." Sansa even thinks to herself in AFFC that Littlefinger did nothing to help her while she was in KL. "Littlefinger never lifted his little finger for her,"
  13. zoenerys

    The hound saved Jeyne Poole

    I thought he left to go negotiate with the Tyrells? My reading of LF before the Purple Wedding; he didn't want to be seen as having anything to do with Sansa by anyone. He went to great lengths for no one (not even Sansa) to find out who had spirited her away. If he had been seen showing her any support directly, in public, his plans would've failed. Varys or someone would've found out. This is why I think the show's plot line with them is a horrible disservice to his character, especially. LF is waaay smarter than that. Littlefinger is in the long game when it comes to her and was willing to wait. JMO
  14. zoenerys

    The hound saved Jeyne Poole

    Haha. On your second point, I'm not sure. I feel that if he was suspicious of anyone it would be Dontos. Littlefinger never directly contacted Sansa in ACOK as far as I know. Especially not in public, either. The only way i'd see him knowing about LF's plans is: he has followed Sansa into the godswood w/o her knowing, saw Dontos, and than followed Dontos to wherever LF was and saw Dontos report to him. That kind of seems far fetched to me and I don't think Sandor is a literal stalker. He knows she's lying about the godswood, but he doesn't pry or force out the info. He seems to respect her privacy.
  15. zoenerys

    The hound saved Jeyne Poole

    I agree with you. He was obviously in love with her. What do you think of the parallel I suggested with LF and Sandor? Compared to LF, The Hound looks damn near altruistic.
  16. zoenerys

    The hound saved Jeyne Poole

    I agree that's the real world reason, but I was thinking more along the lines of in-character motivations.
  17. zoenerys

    Why do people ship Sandor and Sansa?

    Here's my thoughts: In my opinion, Sandor has been HUGE in the development of Sansa. It is Sandor that we first see her show genuine compassion to when he tells her his story. It is Sandor that gives her the most crucial advice she ever receives, "give them what they want". That helps her in her dealings with everyone else she meets from that point on. She immediately feels comfortable with him being tactile towards her, without even realizing who it is. GRRM has set this up from the beginning beginning, when everyone was heading towards KL. Also, from a plot standpoint, the most important thing about this relationship, is that it is secret. From ALL of the big players of the game, but most importantly Littlefinger. Littlefinger has worked to distance her from every influence in her life. Her dad, her friend Jeyne, Dontos, The Tyrells, Tyrion, Myranda Royce, and whoever else might be a threat to him dominating her. He has done nothing to influence her relationship with Sandor, because he doesn't know anything about it! LF has no idea the intimacy Sansa developed with him, or the trust. I believe The Hound is going to be the one to inform Sansa of his crimes against her family. He's her hidden dagger. LF is confident that he knows everything about Sansa, and for the most part he does. This relationship is literally the only thing he has no clue about. It's a shield he has no idea is there, and will ultimately help end LF IMO.
  18. zoenerys

    What was Ned’s purpose with Jon?

    Ned clearly didn't have anything planned. Not just for Jon, but all of his kids. In my opinion, though I love him, Ned failed his children here. I believe that Ned was so traumatized by the death of his family members leaving that he never wanted any of his family to separate from him ever again. He wanted to live in the present and was not thinking of the future until it abruptly confronted him. An understandable mistake, but a mistake all the same. One thing that bothers me, is when people use this issue to claim Ned didn't love Jon. Or that he didn't want to be his father. Not saying that you're doing that, OP, but i've seen it happen many times. Ned's parenting mistakes are all those of a father that wants his children to always be with him and not a result of any deeper malice against Jon himself.
  19. zoenerys

    Favorite POV Character

    Well ngl I cheated and read all of Sansa's chapters throughout the series before even picking up the first book. So the real surprise when I finally /did/ read it was Dany and to a lesser extent Ned. I know a lot of people on these forums hate on both of them but I love them. Daenerys for her perseverance and Ned for his love of family and martyrdom.
  20. zoenerys

    Daenerys is Azor Ahai.

    I didn't read the full theory but I agree that Dany is the most likely candidate for Azor Ahai + The Prince That Was Promised + The Stallion That Mounts The World. I find it odd that fans seem to discount her in favor of Jon when she has literally fulfilled the first two prophecies already. If they are truly the same that is. The only other option I could see happening is that they are BOTH Azor Ahai, interchangeably. Along with possibly Tyrion. Their mothers are meant to be Nissa Nissa imo. According to Catholics (which GRRM is AFAIK), a mother dying in childbirth is the ultimate sacrifice. Only death pays for life. There's also the parallel of them ALL being the youngest of 3 siblings, and that all 3 siblings are M/M/F groups. It all ties together.
  21. zoenerys

    Anyone else not interested in Jon's chapters?

    I felt the same when reading this book but when I got to SOS he grew on me.
  22. zoenerys

    R+L=J v.165

    RE My initial comment in this thread, I just thought of something. Perhaps subconsciously Jon doesn't want to know who his mother is. What do we think of this? I know he says he does but saying you want the truth and knowing what to do with it when you have it are two different things. He doesn't think about his mom too much. It's clear to me that he has built a fantasy in his head about who his mom was, and her relationship with Ned. The ironic thing? She IS who he hopes her to be. Highborn, beautiful and kind. So technically he's getting what he wanted but it's going to come with the devastation that his only parent and idol wasn't even his father. ugh. I feel so bad for him but it makes me glad that Ned didn't tell him the truth. Some things should be kept secret. Learning that as far as the stark kids are concerned , you were conceived of rape is not going to be good for his mental health. I think it might lead to a psychotic break of Jon. :/
  23. zoenerys

    R+L=J v.165

    True. Cat did ask but she was met with some double speak on Ned's part ("he is my blood"). I think that directly lying to his wife's face was something Ned didn't want to do, hence not naming Wylla as Jon's mom to Cat. I think it's the same thing if Jon (or any of his family were to ask). He'd say it didn't matter or try to brush it off or deflect onto something else. The Robert case was very special. He simply had to respond to him. It's not like he could pull rank like with anyone else. Besides denying his best friend an answer would look suspicious. Even then he did the bare minimum and told Robert to leave it alone. OT kind of but: I also think that Ned not finding a mother figure for him ie. keeping wylla in winterfell or some other woman willing to share parental responsibility with him was out of loyalty to Lyanna. He didn't want anyone to replace her as Jon's mom. I don't have any quotes to back this up, it's just a feeling I have.
  24. zoenerys

    R+L=J v.165

    Hi! I'm new to this forum and am still reading the books. Not sure if this has been addressed before but here it goes: Has Jon ever actually asked Ned about his mother/who she was? I know he does in the show but obviously the show ≠ the books. I personally find it hard to believe that when he was young he wouldn't have asked, but so far Jon has never mentioned it. I have a hypothesis on why it was written this way but i'd like to read other people's opinions.
  25. zoenerys

    Did Tyrion have feelings for Sansa?

    No. He was projecting his need for love onto Sansa. IMO.