butterweedstrover

I think also, because in the book, Daemon frequented whore houses quite a lot.

That is not what I came away with from the discussion. I thought it meant that Cole wouldn’t think that an actual reason for why she would be a bad queen to which I responded it made sense even if it was tinged in hypocrisy. But since you asked, yeah it would. The Queen running her court like a brothel and engaging in sexual activity would go against all concepts of chastity, religion, and tradition the institutions of power hold in Westeros and damage the credibility of the crown. If it’s slander then fine. It just takes Cole to think it’s true for it to function as criticism of Rhaenyra as queen.

Unless homophobia is uncommon in Westeros his saying that wouldn’t be much of statement as to his character. It talks about her gaining weight in comparison to Alicent who remains in form adding a discrepancy between one another and then suggests a growing jealousy from one to the other. Assuming Cole left her, she settled for Harwin. Either way the book has a shared deep seated rivalry between them fueled by hatred (that doesn’t exist in the show) so there are a number of things that caused this. The fact that the book decided to highlight Rhaenyra’s beauty compared to Alicent’s is a narrative decision to reinforce the conflict. Yeah, there are multiple reasons. But in the end Rhaenyra hated Alicent, something she doesn’t in the show despite being given ample reason to.

This is kind of a garbage response per usual. It takes your modern sensibilities, implants it as judgment onto me, then skirts away. It’s quite reasonable to think turning KL into an open brothel would bring about disfavor among the lords and prove to be disastrous for a reigning monarch to engage with (especially when childbirth is such an important factor).

It would make perfect sense for Cole to think it’d constitute her being a bad queen, especially considering the standards of the time.

I agree about Martin. But it would be a sound perspective for Criston Cole to hold. I mean there are things like chastity, religious institutions, and tradition that holds weight among the lords. If Daemon and Rhaenyra were to openly whore around that would cause trouble. I agree about her having no choice, but that was something the show made explicit whereas the book might have suggested a lack of effort on her part and a desire for sexual indulgence. The show doesn’t have her being indulgent at all.

I did read it, but I feel like we are losing the important fact: Saint Rhaenyra is an invention of the show. Book Rhaenyra had jealousy, anger, and hate towards Alicent plus a predisposition for paranoia with the deaths of the people who posed a danger to her ascension (Harwin, Laenor, Vaemond). The show takes significant pains to absolve her of any culpability (direct or indirect) while keeping her emotions static and without any human failings (despite her best friend stealing her throne and dedicating twenty years to slander her name).

Isn’t it? I mean showing a total lack of regard for sexual norms would make her bad queen. Ehh, I imagine they thought they could rein him in whereas Daemon and Rhaenyra didn’t have any such influences.

It doesn’t matter what he says if the changes deliberately make the characters less morally complex and thereby turning the story into a good vs. bad. Also, I think Olivia has a bunch of people fooled into thinking her character is consistent. As for Cole, yeah I concede that was in the book, but it doesn’t change the fact that the book going from him being another screw in the Alicent/Rhaenyra rivalry to him being a loser without agency reinforces their grand plan: Blacks good, Greens bad.

Rhaenyra does betray the people her escapades kill like turning Laenor into a target, and Vaemond, and Harwin. Even if you believe all these people would have died anyways, you can’t say the book excused Rhaenyra morally, the show does. The show explicitly makes it clear why Vaemond died, why Harwin died, and why Laenor didn’t. Vaemond dies because he is a power hungry misogynist. Harwin dies because Alicent decided to bring a psychopath into her inner circle. Laenor get’s ‘killed’ so he might live a happy life and Rhaenyra can better defend herself against the Greens. None of this was from the book. The book gives the appearance Vaemond died because Rhaenyra is paranoid. Harwin dies because she used him to breed heirs. And Laenor died because he was in the way. And in the book, her conflict with Rhaenyra was self-destructive. In the show it is completely rational and level headed making the removal of Laenor seem common sense. The fact that she spared him means she can be both smart and morally absolved. I use to think that, back when I still liked the show in the first five episodes. But seeing as Rhaenyra never shirks her duty post-time skip it gives me the impression those scenes weren’t meant to imply wrongdoing on her part but to show how sexually liberated and awesome she is. They do if her lack of concern for her husband and her duty as a wife led to their deaths. She might not be morally culpable (assuming she was not involved) but she benefited from their deaths and that casts a morally ambiguous light onto her claim. Especially given the fact that she was never known to show any serious grief or regret over what happened but rather embraced the opportunity to gain more power. It’s fundamentally different. Vaemond being killed for telling the truth and being killed for calling the princess a whore in front of the king are two different things. The first one is on his executors. The second one is on him. Especially since the show absolves Rhaenyra of any wrongdoing. Because I know she needed children to secure her claim. If Laenor wasn’t giving any she needed to find someone. The fact that she preferred Harwin is not the reason she sought him out in the first place. If she wanted sex, she could have sex. Instead she wanted children. She had sex for the primary reason of having children, not indulging in enjoyment (which might, SHOCK, constitute a moral flaw in her perfect veneer). It never (like the show) put the blame completely on Laenor. Rhaenyra would have, in the show, much preferred him to be the father than Harwin, Laenor gave her no choice. In the book it might have meant she was not interested and didn’t care about the consequences (such that it fit with her liaison with Criston Cole). The show went out of its way to make Rhaenyra both the dedicated mother and wife while Laenor was out drinking because he was depressed over his lovers death. Well, even so, Cole is still a loser in the show while he had more agency in the book (hence his moniker). He chose Alicent over Rhaenyra, and that added fuel to the rivalry. The show has no such rivalry and Rhaenyra does not think about Cole making her rejection of him the ONLY aspect of their relationship. While this is not true, it also doesn’t change the fact that Rhaenyra’s total indifference towards her best friend trying to destroy her makes Rhaenyra not only seem immune to typical human vices, but also lacking in human mannerisms making the love she bares for her children seem artificial. And lol, no. Alicent doesn’t come off as more sympathetic for trying to destroy her best friend for no perceivable reason, she comes off as schizophrenic. No it’s not. The bastards are not framed as a threat to her claim or the safety of Alicent’s children. They are framed as a reason for Alicent to be jealous of Rhaenyra. Alicent’s children have been predisposed to hate Rhaenyra since birth, especially as Alicent keeps reminding them (that their lives would be endanger). The name Strong is just a weapon used for them to battle each other, not the reason Alicent’s children are given for hating them. She marries Daemon to go along with the plan to set Laenor free. The Greens are ramping their attacks and she needs a few legitimate children. It’s quite rational to do this while in the book it seems opportunistic, especially since Laenor actually dies. But here is the thing, none of those things from the show (her rational level-headed concern about the Greens or Laenor’s survival) are part of her character in the book. One in the same, if she doesn’t reject him she is dedicated, if she does she is not.It might have been a mutual separation, but there is no hint this was all on Laenor in the book. And none that show her to be forgiving, dutiful, emotionally unresponsive to hate, ridiculously calm, and mild mannered as she was in the show. Because none of that was corroborated. About Rhaenys and Corlys, Rhaenyra suffers no consequences for faking their son’s death. They bend the knee without question because she is so awesome and perfect. If that was a serious deed it would be treated with narrative consequences, instead they both kneel to the true queen.

Well yeah. If she was cheating it would be however that is not how the show framed it. No, I’m not saying she was involved, only that her actions led to them dying. If she never had bastards or an affair all of them would be alive. The show, unlike the book, makes it clear that not only did they die for different reasons not involving her, but that her actions never came from a place of selfishness or lack of effort ruining any potential moral failing on her part. In the context of the discussion if she didn’t care about Laenor, cheated on him and ignored his value to her, then she would be valuing her own pleasure over the realm. But the show says that not only was she a loyal wife his ‘death’ was mutually agreed to provide him with solace and to protect her claim against a verifiable lunatic. In the book her rivalry with Alicent was much less one sided and more self-destructive. In the show it is common sense to defend herself against Alicent’s irrational jealousy.

Yeah, that happened a few days ago, don’t know why. Feel free to use the laugh emoji if I say something you don’t like.

The thing is, Alicent doesn’t want him to be king for his own sake, but for his protection. If she rejects any proposal that might protect her son and uses him to fuel her rivalry with Rhaenyra (because apparently Rhaenyra lacks a sense of duty so Alicent is jealous of her) the motivation isn’t about the son anymore. Oh yeah, and then she disowns him. The thing is, people here pretend that the show made Rhaenyra morally untouchable because of the book which isn’t true. Rhaenyra benefited from a lot of evil things and never once showed opposition to them yet the show goes out of its way to absolve her. As for Alicent, she claims she is doing this for her son then prioritizes the rivalry over his safety then disowns him. If this was a potential motive, they wouldn’t have needed Viserys death bed scene to change Alicent’s mind. It is all so clearly bad I cannot comprehend people who tell themselves otherwise.

Her sexual escapades are very different in the book and the in the show. The show makes it clear her duty to the realm is beyond question and her sexual activity is not a betrayal of anyone except those who are irrational zealots. It’s about framing. In the book her escapades lead to the death of Harwin, Laenor, Vaemond, and potentially more. You can absolve her as much as you want but that is speculation on your part, not reality. She puts a target on them by having bastards while in the show Harwin’s death because his brother is hand, Laenor lives happily ever after, and Vaemond is killed because he calls the princess a whore in front of the whole court for something that wasn’t her fault. No she doesn’t. She does not seek Harwin out for self-satisfaction, but because she needs children and Laenor won’t give her any. The fact that she enjoys her time with Harwin is an added bonus. And she doesn’t raise bastards in defiance of the realm, she does it because she literally has no other choice. As for Vaemond, context my friend, read the context of the scene and figure out how it is different. His death doesn’t reflect paranoia onto Rhaenyra or her team, but an actual defense of women against the misogyny of the realm. Here is the thing you aren’t seeming to grasp. F&B does not disclose the private reasons people have, but we can look at the sequence of events and be given an impression. You want to assume Rhaenyra lost Cole through no fault of her own, that she wouldn’t approve of Laenor’s death, but all these things are not told to us, they are in your imagination. This is tiring to explain, but a friendship does not temper a rivalry, it increases it. Alicent is absolutely going after Rhaenyra in the show and as a betrayal, not just as a random antagonist. This should affect Rhaenyra even more. But Rhaenyra shows no hurt feelings and doesn’t respond leaving this rivalry to come off as not a rivalry, but the delusions of one person who doesn’t even have a legitimate reason to hate Rhaenyra. In the book they both hate each other. Lol, let’s look at the sequence of events: Rhaenyra marries Laenor. Rhaenyra raises bastards not from Laenor. Harwin dies. Laenor dies. Now Rhaenyra is having more children with her uncle. The private reasons in the book are not disclosed, we are not told why these things happen. But we are left with an impression. It was the show’s decision to absolve Rhaenyra of slacking in her duties as a wife to Laenor, of having Harwin’s death be unrelated to his affair with Rhaenyra, of having Laenor’s ‘death’ to be done for both his sake and her claim to the throne. Just like it was the show’s decision to remove any paranoia about the bastards and have them be inconsequential to the reasons war is fought. Your opinion is not the book. Which is your problem, you have a skewed understanding of the book based on how it services the show. Rhaenyra was never the saint she was in the show in the book which has so far been your only justification for why the show should do such a stupid thing. It looks bad because then he dies and she remarries making it seem she was never concerned about her husband or felt duty bound to him in anyway. In the show she is both dutiful and sexually liberated, and lacking in any vengeance or capacity for negative emotions. Seriously DMC, that’s not an in depth reason. It’s not psychological, it’s not even a motivation. How much did Rhaenyra even put into this marriage? Your reading of the book is seriously debilitated by the desire to pick and choose what you see. Laenor going off to High Tide isn’t a sign Rhaenyra was a dedicated wife to him. She might have ignored him and that is all her actions suggest. But seriously, it’s funny how in order to defend her characterization in the show you are unable of finding one passage from the book that would cast her in a light similar to the show so you try to create assumptions from things that never happened. Because she was not directly involved with Laenor’s death does not change the fact she benefited from it. It does not change the fact that she seized the opportunities provided to her to strengthen her power at the expense of others. That leaves an impression. The show goes out of its way to absolve of her of even personal gain at some moral evil. She is eternally good. Harwin dies, Laenor ‘dies’, Vaemond dies, and through it all Rhaenyra is clean.

That’s a technical differences. If you love your children and are worried about their well-being you would be worried about their wellbeing. Instead she continues to push them even while they show resistance and outright rejects an olive branch for sake of their protection your goal and your behavior are at odds. No, she wants to protect her children. Her children get screwed. She keeps screwing her children because she doesn’t want Rhaenyra on the throne and that now takes precedent over them. Screwed child rapes someone and she disowns him and only returns to him out of obligation to her husband to put him on the throne. Viserys is not the source of the pressure causing him to act like this. In fact the only sense that Viserys is not enough is that he favors his daughter over him, but he still has love for his son as he says repeatedly. It is objectively bad because it contradicts itself and makes for a bad storyline to gets us invested into a civil war. That’s your opinion and irrelevant either way because if Alicent loved her children that would be enough. But she doesn’t show any concern for their well-being despite that ostensibly being the reason she would betray her best friend. No, I mean Aegon. Aegon doesn’t want himself on the throne and Viserys doesn’t want Aegon on the throne, it is just Alicent causing problems. Because his mother set the expectations for what he should have and made Viserys (rational) unwillingness to name him heir over Rhaenyra seem like a rejection. We really don’t know that. We see Viserys obsessing over him as a baby and then be sick over the proceeding decade turning him into Alicent’s plaything. If there was one scene where he refused to speak to his son or couldn’t make time you’d have a point. But there isn’t so that is all just speculation. Even if true, it wouldn’t absolve Alicent putting her hatred of Rhaenyra over the safety of her kids. Which was the entire reason she was working against Rhaenyra in the first place. What? We are made to celebrate his triumphant return to the throne and smack down of Otto when they were about to disinherit Lucerys. Yes. He does not rape the girl for any reason besides to pleasure himself. Him wanting pleasure instead of the throne does not equate to raping for pleasure. The problem isn’t that he is looking for indulgences as a rejection of his duty, it is that he finds it through raping an innocent maid than I don’t know, going to a brothel. Respectfully disagree. An act is only evil if the context provided does not explain the act in any moral terms. There is, if her rivalry with Rhaenyra is so strong that she either thinks: Rhaenyra would be a bad queen or B: Rhaenyra will kill my children. She has no reason to believe either in the show. Daeron has redeeming qualities. And Helaena is a good daughter. So in the book she does raise two good kids. Daeron is no where to be found and Helaena is turned into a mentally handicapped mystic spewing at cryptic clues like an NPC.

A smart decision and a sexually liberated woman living her best life. Things we are meant to celebrate and that have no consequences both to unveil how horrible both of those people are. Keep lying to yourself. The book literally calls their apology after the Aemond incident fake. No, their rivalry is all over the book. In the scene they walk into the room with their classic Black and Green dresses. Their hatred is everywhere, it's literally outright stated time and time again, even in the freaking Martin approved illustration. Yeah, killing the Queen and the Hand guarantees war, but whatever. Being skeptical of battle strategy isn't be skeptical of war. Rhaenyra always forgives Alicent and is always holding out an olive branch. She never shows any anger or hatred despite this best friend ostensibly trying to destroy her. Pull your head out of the sand and look at reality. Lol, he literally said she grew to becomes unattractive post-child birth. She literally screams on news of Alicent betrayal wanting her dead, and as Vaemond killed for speaking the truth. Lol no. In the book she has a hand in his death and he calls her children bastards off-page. In the show he directly calls her a whore in front of the entire court and Daemon kills him without consulting Rhaenyra. Oh and all the audiences cheered because we were suppose to celebrate this act whereas in the book it showed how Rhaenyra's lies were catching up to her. Exactly. No, Laenor can ejaculate. He just won't with his wife so she has no choice but to look elsewhere.

Then that ruins the entire premise the show established which was Alicent is afraid for her children. If Alicent is willing to betray her best friend for sake of her own children she must love them and be dedicated to them. Instead we are shown her destroying them from a lack of concern by endlessly pursuing the throne. Do you get the problem? It makes her fundamental motivation null and void. Really? What scene do we have with Aegon and Viserys? Viserys didn't want him on the throne just like he didn't want himself on the throne. When he rapes the girl he blames his mother, not his father. And you're ignoring how the show doesn't blame his father. His father isn't the one pressuring him to betray his family, his mother is the one doing that and that is what supposedly destroys them. His actions aren't deep though which is the problem, his behavior is that of a generic villain. Or Tywin. Tywin is just evil as regards the narrative. In the book we saw potential flaws in Rhaenyra and reasons for Alicent to want her children to rule. The show destroys all of that making them look like a bunch of psychos.

No she isn't. Being self-indulgent at the expense of her duties might constitute a character flaw. But Rhaenyra is both sexually liberated and loyal to her spouse. Kind of like Googie: (0:25): And the show does nothing with it besides make Cole look like a pathetic zealot who bashes a gay man's skull into the floor. The show does everything to frame Rhaenyra as pure and good but also sexually liberated and free leaving no room for possible emotional vices like greed, selfishness, or envy. lol, you are a master at twisting other people's words for your own uses. The mention of whore was how her sexual escapades would be described in the book. The readers can view it however they want, but having a character cheat on her husband for sexual pleasure elsewhere, raising bastards in defiance of the realm, and having those who question her killed might constitute moral failings. People can still support her actions while conceding she is a multifaceted character vulnerable to feelings of selfishness and greed. In the show however she is none of these things. She is endlessly compassionate, forgiving, and selfless free of any vices such as vengeance or envy. Well, you have to believe that in order to believe the impossible. Sadly you can't get away from the simple fact that Rhaenyra in the show has no moral flaws. Unlike the book where she has moments of madness, depravity, anger, or self-interested lust at the expense of those around her. In the show she does nothing to harm the people or her claim (because her bastards do not affect her claim and the only people who get upset at her sexual experiences are those deemed totally irrational). Not at him, at Alicent. It's another offense in there growing hatred for one another. But show Rhaenyra can't have hatred in her heart because that would be a moral vice. She has to be pure, calm, and perfect. Yeah, and nowhere in the books does it make it seem Cole wanted to run away with her. Rhaenyra's rejection in the show is the reason for his pathetic attitude, while in the book it might have been for a number of reasons. But point in case, whatever the reason, Alicent took Cole from Rhaenyra and that just deepens their rivalry. In the show there is no rivalry because Rhaenyra is too pure of heart. No they are not. They are the result of an impossible decision forced upon her by a marriage she did not want to a man incapable of fulfilling his duties. If she had no concern for the norms she wouldn't have had children (like her relationship with her mother insinuated) and scoffed at the notion of strengthening her claim. But again she is perfect so instead she helps her gay husband live happily ever after and remarries to strengthen her line. There is, because being gay does not mean you cannot breed another women. If he wanted to and saw it as important he could have and show Rhaenyra made it perfectly clear she wanted his children even while knowing of his sexual preferences. Like always, you have buried yourself in ignorance. Rhaenyra rejecting Laenor in the book, alongside her killing of those who called out her bastards, and the murder of Laenor were all in line with a person who rejected the rules for her own desires. But the show made it clear this was all out of her control and she didn't want anyone killed and just wanted to do her duty because she is perfect.

It makes his character worse giving him a reason for being a rapist. Because that reason is Alicent wanting him on the throne, which implicates Alicent in harming her own children reinforcing her character as a bad mother. So we have a fundamentally evil side with people doing fundamentally evil things (rape) because their motivations are fundamentally evil (forcing Aegon onto the throne). You see, he is not much more than a rapist because none of his behaviors counteract that. You are excusing his behavior because of some past trauma, similar to how people might defend Gregor by saying his was abused as a child. It doesn't however add ambiguity to his moral actions which are all bad.

There is no such problem, and people like yourself need to stop sticking their heads in the sand. Rhaenyra is pure because she is not even touched with emotional vice. Emotional vice includes feelings of Anger, Rage, Vengeance, Selfishness, and Carnal Pleasures (more on this one last). Rhaenyra in the book has such vices. She despises her step-mother and revels in a deal of animosity towards her. Rhaenyra does not think to forgive Alicent nor mend ties. When on Dragonstone she does not consider peace, but war. She screams and demands for blood. Daemon is the one who calms her down, in the show she is the one with the ethereal calm calling it "Daemon's war" and reasoning with the men to take a leveled approach. In the show she is untainted by anger towards Alicent. Despite Alicent attempting to destroy her she is forgiving always and kind always. Her perfect children are shown (repeatedly) to reject the instigations of Aemond and Aegon calling for peace at every juncture due to their mother's influence. Martin depicts her as jealous, as angry, as sexually demanding, as physically unappealing, and as not above violent tendencies. Her sexual escapades aren't framed as female liberation, but as carnal desires invoking a sense of self-centered indulgence on her part. Rhaenyra's bastards, Vaemond, Laenor, etc. were all reframed in the show. She doesn't have Vaemond killed for speaking the truth. She doesn't have Laenor killed, and the bastards weren't a result of her infidelity but Laenor's infidelity. She is absolved of everything, and you can lie to yourself as much as you want but that is the truth.

Keep a few things in mind: In the book Alicent and Rhaenyra are sworn enemies in a deep rivalry. The book makes clear Rhaenyra has grown fat and ugly while Alicent is as beautiful as ever. Then Cole jumps ship from Rhaenyra to Alicent. The impression I got was he was rejecting her, adding fuel to the hatred shared between the Princess and the Queen. These are only impressions, but the show went out of its way to assure us Rhaenyra rejected him and Cole is just a bitter loser with no redeeming qualities.

Well, viewers have to know the Greens are evil because otherwise they might be emotionally conflicted watching the two sides go at it. Sure, whatever. But having the potentially sympathetic people around him be the cause of his despicable behavior and then putting him on the throne anyways makes them all complicit in the evil. And they didn't need to make him a rapist who his own mother disowns right before putting him on the throne. Helaena is now a cryptic quest giver whose saving grace is that she makes fun of her own family and implicitly provides legitimacy to the blacks (like outing Aegon at the toast and dancing with Jacerys). They're babies, they are sympathetic in the same way a puppy is sympathetic. There is nothing going on there but emotional manipulation. There characters don't have fundamentally sound motivations that make them sympathetic. Not even in it. Yes, so the Greens should all be the worse to the absolute max and the Blacks should be made (unlike the book) to be filled with unstoppable forgiveness that would make the Buddha blush. Her boys always turn the other cheek when insulted, always sue for peace, and like their mother are level headed and clam. One side with no reason for wanting the throne and deploying explicitly awful methods vs. another sided with every reason for wanting the throne but not a shred of vice in their souls isn't an interesting conflict. The show deciding to make him a rapist who is disowned by his own mother before ascending to the throne kind of ruins the dynamic they were going for. Meanwhile Rhaenyra was absolutely changed for the better despite never being written as a forgiving, peaceful, calm, and beautiful queen who can do no wrong. Yet they decided to go that direction so they might as well have softened his character slightly, but nah... Nope. That is called tragicbackstoryTM What is does is offer past trauma to explain the moral depravity of the current self. It does not add nuance to the motivations, but more importantly, the person to blame, if that is the case, for him becoming a rapist is Alicent. Which makes the Greens look even worse. True, but Aegon is not sympathetic in this case. He is not raping women for any reason other than the fact that he is an asshole. Oh, and by the end he wants to be king anyways. Not in this case. At the very least, yes, I agree this was a good change.

I mean, besides none of these foolish decisions having resurfaced in the plot (Rhaenyra still gets Corlys full support without doing anything despite the death of both Laenor and Vaemond). Her bastards haven't actually been a deal breaker for anyone, and it is not like that was her fault. But more specifically, and you can get out from under this no matter how hard you try, she has never done anything morally questionable. Ned Stark also made mistakes but that didn't besmirch his moral character. Rhaenyra is even greater than Ned, she does not sully the name of her enemies with foul language, she is never angry at her best friend for trying to destroy her but always forgiving, she loves her sons and her sons are perfect boys raised in the language of peace (making the whole "the rivalry lives on through the children" think even dumber). Try as you might none of her perfections are true to the book, it was just an invention that made this show a whole lot worse.

He is? Sure, but I also think part that is wanting what his brother has, reinforcing him as lacking in any loyalty to his own brother's claim. I don't consider any of these good traits morally speaking. Yeah, he is also pretty awful in the book. But I don't remember him being prepared to betray his own brother (something that if we were going for similarities to Daemon he would at least have been loyal to).

Yes, potentially and directly. Rhaenyra does not come off as a pure and forgiving saint. She can comes off as selfish, sexually demanding, jealous, and mad. He makes it seem Cole rejects Rhaenyra for Alicent. He makes it seem Rhaenyra is jealous of Alicent or at the least possessing of anger towards her step-mother. He makes it seem that the bastards are a result of infidelity and a lack of concern for the rules. In the show she has no rivalry with Alicent. She shows nothing but grace and forgiveness even when Alicent is actively trying to destroy her. She has bastards when left with no other choice. She rejects Cole, not the other way around. In the book she was the one who in her entitlement demands Vaemond be killed for telling the truth. She is the one that screams on news of the usurpation and can think of nothing but war and vengeance. The show's decision to make her blameless and free of any fault isn't a creation of the book. He portrays her sexual escapades not as a women embracing her freedoms but that of an overweight daughter competing with her over-attractive step mother. There is jealousy involved, anger, and violence. In the show all of this is excised from her. You can stick your head in the sand and deny it but it will always be true.