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butterweedstrover

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  1. We have met her, but hopefully she will die off-page.
  2. Oh he wants to marry Daenerys, we shouldn't forget that. And she will be fine with the idea, until she learns Young Griff is a pretender. That will be the end of that. He is left with two choices, Sansa or Arianne. The Stark or the Martell girl. He will choose the latter, and then he will die.
  3. No, but there is a stark hinted at since book 1. But people ignore that because they want Jon to be king.
  4. Let us put it this way. Their characters are parallels, but their situation is inversed Father is Dornish, Aegon's mother is Dornish. Let me ask now: Do you have any possible idea of what Aemon was talking about by "the Sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler"? If not, perhaps my answer is the answer. For it is the only one that fits perfectly. I should have told you before hand, but among my inner circle I go by the name: the truth teller. Because you see, I reveal truths. I am the revealer. Not just as regards ASOIAF, but many other things as well. I have a knack for deductions. I deduce, and I discover. Oberyn's bastard? Why? Why does the mystery Aemon told us about have to do with her? I have given you the answer, but now please produce a theory of your own. There are none, because no other answer makes sense. Targaryen, dragons, and magic. Dany was not mentioned as the head of the dragon, she was mentioned as the prince who was promised. Whenever Dany is mentioned in regards to three dragons/three heads, she is the mother, she is above the three, not a part. The Sphinx is not a head of the dragon. Alleras is a Sphinx and he is not a head of the dragon. The two are not related. Aegon happens to be a sphinx and a dragon. Pure coincidence. Let's look at why Alleras is called the Sphinx: "His own skin was dark as teak. And like the green marble sphinxes that flanked the Citadel’s main gate, Alleras had eyes of onyx." A bit of this and a bit of that. Different colors, different shades, different blood. In the story, a nightingale and a rose are not exclusive to the prince. His kingdom is poor, but these are his prized possessions. Others could also have them, but they are what he finds the most beauty in. Pate finds Rosey and the Nightingales most beautiful. Pate references Rosey and the Nightingales in the same way: "Not half as sweet as Rosey" "Though not so sweet as one small nightingale." These are things he values, the two things the Pig boy values the most. That is the pig boy, the rose, and the nightingale. Nothing could be more obvious. All three together as one. You see and can think for yourself. Many fans do not read literature outside of fantasy, so they wouldn't catch many of the references. However I posted the same theory on reddit in a comment section (it was inactive mostly), but I was rewarded a rocket and general acclaim by my audience. Most who are shown the reference understand how clear and obvious it is. "“You were with your friends. It was not my wish to intrude upon your fellowship.” The alchemist wore a hooded traveler’s cloak, brown and nondescript." A brown cloak, hooded. This is what Strider wore. He is watching the fellowship from a shady seat in the tavern. Sam joins the same fellowship at the end of AFFC (Pate, Leo, Alleras, etc.). Sam was also a member of the fellowship in LOTR. Brown hooded cloak: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/5/5f/Strider_in_Prancing_Pony_-_FOTR.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20121003045004 Ahh, the truth reveals itself in time. There is no hiding from its glare. No ideas? None at all? The riddle is there for you to solve, if you are so perplexed, maybe it is because you are looking at it the wrong way. Please give some idea, or else you all but say this question is so confounding, that the answer must be incredibly obvious. I have explained the answer, as it fits with everything else I have developed for you through meticulous reading. true. But then there are two people of interest he is introduced to: Alleras and Pate (Hi, I'm Pate, like the pigboy). These are the two he see's outside. If the Sphinx were a reference to dual genders, then it would be a female disguised as a male, not two separate entities. His hair is already White. That of a Targaryen. He dyed the other side red for his mother, for house Martell. The red sun. He has a clear preference, as I have established already. No, I am talking about the three prophecies. Three mounts, three fires, and three treasons. All three end with love. There is a mystery lover who will be part of Dany's journey. I have already explained why that is not Jon. Daario is suppose to establish the characteristics of this finale lover (colorful charming rogue). Did he, where was she set up with Gendry? In Harrenhall, Gendry was made out to be Robert. She came there with him, but then she found another she preferred. Since then, her and Gendry have parted ways. Instead she went after Aegon to the house of black and white. In the Mercy chapter, it is shown she is sleeping in his old room. Jaqen is a false identity, not a real person. The face then cannot be of Jaqen, for Jaqen is not real. The face is his real face. He abandoned the Facelessmen to come to Westeros and recclaim his birthright. But things went wrong when he was locked up by Ilyrio and Varys. He is know trying to hatch a dragon egg at the citadel as proof of his birthright. This is how it is phrased in the book: "Is the girl worth a dragon?" Dragon is common motif in that prologue. It is the first word spoken, and it is referenced time and time again. "Do you have my dragon?" he asks the alchemist. It is a common device use to signify the dragon egg at the citadel, and the locked away book on dragons. Pate wants a dragon. Pate is referenced to as a hidden prince. Pate wants to run away with a fifteen year old maiden. This is Rhaegar, Rhaegar Targaryen. The phrasing does not leave much to be questioned. Notice this line: "Pate had to follow or lose Rosey and the dragon both, forever" He would lose both, he needs both. Rhaegar needed a dragon, but he also wanted Lyanna (GRRM reveals this when he calls Rhaegar a love-struck prince). And not so often as "my dragon". Golden dragon, coin, etc. But here the main motif is dragons. It is the first word spoken, and it is used towards interesting affects (do you have my dragon, is she worth a dragon). Notice this line: "Pate had to follow or lose Rosey and the dragon both, forever" Not the gold or the coin, the dragon. They are in the same position, it is why Pate is referenced to as a secret prince. He wants to run away with the fifteen year old maiden, and he wants the dragon. He is a thief. But neither him nor Rhaegar have what they want at the moment. It is. He steals Lyanna away. He is a thief. You can deny basic language, all you want, and I know you already have. "you won’t do better. Do you want her? Do you love her? “I am no thief,” That is his story, he wants the girl, but he is no thief. Finally he accepts who he is, just like Rhaegar does. The Great Shepherd is not a real deity, it is a plot device. It is referenced, to give us a hint of who the three heads of the dragon are. Otherwise he would not withhold information about the middle head if it were just an info dump about some made-up lore. Three heads, like the three apples. There are clues, and I have clearly described who each are. Writing in caps does not change the truth. There is a head the devours the dying. And there is a head from which the reborn head comes. Azor Ahai reborn comes from Jon, he is a vessel for the prophecy. The quote only references devouring the dying. "The first head devours the dying, and the reborn emerge from the third" Arya devours worms, which are symbols of dragons. She devours the dragon. The dying and the reborn are not the heads, they are things being acted on. One head eats the dying, the other births them again. Why, didn't I provide all the textual evidence? In the show, it was. In the show there is. And in the books it is highly alluded. Not least of all having a child out of wedlock would be a disservice to Lyanna. And Rhaegar saw himself as noble, and this child was to be his third head. But Arya is a clear reference to Lyanna, and Arya has a clear reference to being married under a heart tree, by a dragon no less. Yes, and she found Rhaegar more beautiful. It is Rhaegar she dwells on, like Robert did with Lyanna. The most beautiful, these words are spoken many times, and often. "She had never forgiven Robert for killing him [Rhaegar]" This was his first sin. It happened before he called her Lyanna. Yes, they married under the old gods. Because it reveals the lie in of itself. It reveals a truth, just not the one YG believes. He didn't, GRRM. The author told the story in a way to reveal the truth. He has Arbor Gold and Urine within the tale. The Pisswater Prince traded for Arbor Gold. This is his subtle way of revealing a lie through narrative. The usage of the pisswater prince and the arbor gold was no mistake. Most of the house we think of old come from the age of heroes. House Dayne comes from the dawn age, before the age of heroes. They are near 10,000 years old, and now house has been said to be older. The sword of the morning was crafted before Valyrian steel, by a fallen comet. The Red Hand is like the play bloody hand. In this story, they are the messengers that come to instigate revenge. He gives him the means of death. Olenna poisoned Joffrey as Oberyn did Tywin but they were given the means by another. Horseface Arya and Lyanna are to explicitly referenced along with horses, not just "happen to ride horses". So quick you say no. "“Even if I named the king . . .” “Speak the name, and death will come. On the morrow, at the turn of the moon, a year from this day, it will come. A man does not fly like a bird, but one foot moves and then another and one day a man is there, and a king dies.” He knelt beside her, so they were faceto-face, “A girl whispers if she fears to speak aloud. Whisper it now. Is it Joffrey?” Arya put her lips to his ear. “It’s Jaqen H’ghar.” She lists names, and then he swears his oath. After he has sworn to kill anyone, she asks: 'even a king?' He tells her "a king dies" and then asks if it is Joffrey. Arya answers Jaqen H'ghar. This is like the role of the Sphinx. Just because someone is a mummer does not mean he is fake. However Aegon playing the role of a mummer is in line with his method acting (smiling, making up names, and rephrasing his made up background time and time again). They also used the name Arry. Arya borrowed that name, but not that identity. She was always Arya of house Stark. It is very simple, Jaqen compares his own name to Arry, Weasel, etc. to point out these are just made up, they are not real. Jaqen is a made up name, it is why he picked a place close to Braavos and reminds people of it in every introduction. It is amusing to him. If he was playing the role of a real person, or if Arya was playing the role of the real Weasel, they would not behave like themselves. You are WAY reaching. It is telling, a very interesting line, esepcially since it is under the heart tree. He is pledging in Westerosi speech like Rhaegar would have done with Lyanna. None of that has to do with him altering his speech for clarity (otherwise he would not speak that way). When he says "a man" he is referencing himself through context. Otherwise he would not speak like that. Worms, worms, worms. Worm eaten apples. It is wholly consistent, it is brilliant in fact. Look how it is described. The apple is shown to have been cored by a golden arrow. The wormed apple (Arya) is sliced in two. The Sun in the Martell sigil is not sliced, it has a spear driven into it's center like the first apple. https://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/6/60/House_Martell.svg/1200px-House_Martell.svg.png A golden spear through the center of a red sun. Just like a golden arrow through the center of a red apple. The devourer. She eats the worms, the dragon. You're capacity to twist and turn words until they mean nothing is remarkable. To Tyrion at least. And she would not destroy it if Ilyrio had not. He was thinking about his son when he did so. He only has one real son (Young Griff) but he remembers Aegon more. Aegon will. That is the promise. Lyanna believes in the old gods, there marriage in the books will be separate from the Septon. They are both present in the story. Rhaegar is the noble father who had a second wife. Aegon is the perspective from which we see him and his mother. It has not been revealed yet, but is fairly obvious from what is established. Aegon is alive. Young Griff is not Aegon. Gregor killed a baby. So there is a third baby that died. Why, AGOT is a long book, you can read it for yourself. They are still established. People did not know that Aegon VI lived. Trying to hatch a dragon is making a claim on his birth right. For it to happen they would have to love each other (that is the prophecy). I have explained why the two personalities would not fall in love, that goes against what is established in the text. He would have two names prepared, for a boy or a girl. Aemon was the name for a boy. He is born with a cock, so he is a boy, Lyanna knows this and names him. The show follows the books, but changes major character roles by merging them. The baby Gilly has is name after Jon in both the books and show. The books are clever by having Aemon and Jon share the same name. His origin story for the HoBaW suggests otherwise. He is has knowledge of the prediction of his birth. She tried to kill herself and failed. So then she thought to kill herself to take Vengeance for Rhaegar's family. Remember, she loved Elia and Rhaegar, and wished to take vengeance for them. But then she meets Rhaegar's son, Aegon. She tells him so that he may be the agent of vengeance. Her life dedicated to the HoBaW is now as penance for her sins. Notice her grief has subsided since those first days after the sack, and time heals all wounds. There was no contract because she did not die. Rather than give her life, she would wait for Aegon to take vengeance on them all. Not just one person, but all of them. This is the Valonqar who will take "all Cersei holds dear". She didn't have advanced knowledge. She only tells Brandon he [Rhaegar] means to use Lyanna, she doesn't know he actually would. She is using Brandon to split Lyanna from Rhaegar (for Elia's sake). The kidnaping happens a year later, Ashara has no idea that it would actually happen nor when/where. She wishes to help Elia and HER husband. Both of them. He somewhat indicts Ashara. He wished she wouldn't go to Brandon and whisper the poison in his ears about Rhaegar. Ashara is the one who first sets Brandon against Rhaegar, which eventually leads to the war. And then she asks, "what was the lie". The waif said she lied about the lie. The Arya asks, "or was it all a lie". Much of it was a lie, but the best lie has bits of truth in it. It was a lie as regards herself, but it is the truth when referencing Aegon VI. Yes, this is a perspective change. It is referencing Aegon's father. The narration shifts (this is the lie in the truth. But it is telling the same story, just from different perspectives). "He gave up all his wealth" for vengeance. Jon and Aegon uphold the memory of their father, even though both had no clue who he was. They are suppose to enact vengeance, but of course Rhaegar would not have known the truth was to be hidden from both his kids. (Ilyrio fostered one, Ned the other. Neither were friends of Rhaegar Targaryen). "haunting". Her beauty is special. Hair colors can be dyed. And notice, Tyrion says YG eyes can shift between blue and purple depending on the time of day. Lemore is the same, her eyes aren't striking purple, but she has the Lyseni look. They are all good and well, I listed them for ease of reference. Dany is a Targaryen. The image of Arya marrying a dragon and taming one is clear and obvious (massive white lizard hissing against the chain isn't subtle). He said the careful reader would assume it is Olenna, but he is making no promises. Olenna is the poisoner, but she had help from a person we have not been told about yet. The Stranger is the one behind the scene pulling the strings, just like the Valonqar. There is more, it is fairly obvious Oberyn poisoned him. It happened at the dinner in the solar. Widow's blood is brought up at random, and it fits the state the body was in during AFFC. We know better. Read about Widow's blood. He was having trouble in the privy, and it comes out after he dies. That is why his body stinks so much/ From the Valonqar. He helped both Olenna and Oberyn. We've been over this. The Valonqar is the same person. Actually though, beautiful is used multiple times to refer to Rhaegar in Cersei's chapter. This is a person Cersei finds most beautiful, and that person is related to Rhaegar. It is how prophecies work. Her children will all die in the name of Aegon VI, the Valonqar. Connington will kill Tommen and Myrcella in the name of the Valonqar. Again, beauty is subjective. This is someone beautiful according to Cersei. Now ask yourself, he is a younger version of another person? Their offspring. Who is a younger version of yourself? Your offspring.
  5. My nickname is the truth-teller. Diane Kruger was perfect casting. edit: he was the screenwriter so I don't know how much he had to do with that. Not the story as a whole, just the woman at the center of it. A war fought over the girl.
  6. I mean she is. The person GRRM picked to pitch the TV show was David Benioff who had one screen play under his belt from a year ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_(film) The movie starred Diana Kruger as Helen of Troy, this was his supposed expertise. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/1a/52/e91a524dfb0af04779ac374f34c8e2cb.jpg In ASOIAF, Lyanna is a very important person. The war between Baratheon and Targaryen was proceeded by the kidnapping of this women, and her role in the story is VERY important. More so than most people understand. However, when I suggested as such on reddit, people said that was very dumb. But alas, it is the truth, and much can be deciphered from this truth if a person so wishes.
  7. There is much evidence I have barely touched upon, but that matters not. Dense and Thick hair are the same thing. Unwashed hair is greasy which gives it a damp quality, just like recently bathed hairr. Chains, they are both in chains. Tankards, in one chapter they are full, in the other they are empty. The allusion to a monkey/ape from the summer isles. Jaqen is in chains against his will, and Alleras is celebrating his chains. Once freedom is gained for the former, there are descriptive qualities each share. Both smile all the time. Serving women dote on them, they both bath (notice Jaqen frequently asks for a bath, and Alleras is noted for his propensity to bath). They are both at the citadel, where two Sphinxes stand guard. A male and a female. There are two Sphinxes at the citadel. Alleras is called as such for being of mix race. A bit of this and a bit of that. Aegon is as well, he is half-dornish. One is male, one is female. Aemon was speaking on dragons, not Oberyn's bastard. So you see, when he said: The Sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler, he means the Sphinx is the one who most be discovered. Their name, their true name. This is the mystery head of the trios. Do you believe Aemon was speaking about Alleras? I imagine you were confused reading this line same as me, which is why no desirable answer showed itself. But when you step and look at the big picture, the answer becomes obvious, the valonqar, Dany's future lover, the mystery head of the trios, YG and connington, it is all there. Aemon is speaking about dragons, but again I never said Sphinx=Dragon. Alleras is a sphinx, he she is not a dragon. Aemon is interested in dragons, that is of what he spoke. Of his blood line. The answers are in the text. The Sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler. This passage has confused people for quite some time, but I hope I have unraveled the mystery for you. But then he said he is too old. He was only speaking of Targaryen blood, he does not know Jon is Rhaegar's son. That answer is in the citadel archives. I have explained why Alleras is called the Sphinx. She is of mixed blood, and has different colors. Just as Aegon has two hair colors and is half dornish, half Targaryen. We know there are two Sphinxes, Sam sees them before he enters the citadel. He is also introduced to both under false names. But you see, the reference is clear and obvious. The pig boy, the nightingale, and the Rose. You seem to have a difficult time with this so let me rephrase. The swineherd had two most valued items, a nightingale and a rose. Pate the pig boy grants the nightingale as more beautiful than the bells, and Rosey as more beautiful than all the other girls. The pigboy, the rose, and the nightingale. You say it is not established, but it is. As above so below. The reference is beyond question. The type of cloak he wears is the same as Strider. They are both strangers in a tavern, watching from a shady seat. GRRM knows how much his work is compared to Tolkien, but his king (Aegon VI) is very different from Tolkien's king (Aragorn). They both have different fates, whereas Aragorn returns to take the crown, Aegon will try and fail. Instead Bran will become king. But here is one more thing. We already have one reference to a secret prince, the second one becomes clear once the first is established (which it has been). In ASOIAF? Pate is the POV, and we see things from their perspectives. When the alchemist shows up, he has been watching Pate and his friends. The title of fellowship is a wink and a nod, despite them having a somewhat antagonistic relationship (Pate stays behind with Leo where they almost get into a fight. The Alchemist sees all this). This is also the group Samwell Tarly meets up with (Pate, Alleras, and Leo specifically). Samwell was inspired by Samwise from LOTR. Samwise was also one of the members at the prancing pony. Here is a picture of what he would look like (minus the pipe). I believe I have, if you search your heart. For example, you still claim the Swineherd is not a clear and obvious reference, but it is. You argued before that Pate was not a real pig boy, he was only called that. Rosey is also not a real rose, she is only called that. But this arguments hold no weight, and I think you know that. It is quite simple, do you believe he is referencing Oberyn's bastard? If so, why? It seems difficult to believe. But in Sam's chapter, we are told there are two Sphinxes waiting inside, a male and a female. Sam is introduced to both. No, for Aegon the red symbolizes his Dornish blood, and the White is the hair of his father. This image also fits Daenerys romantic inclinations. A charming rogue with dyed hair. Do you see the connection between him and Daario, both are killers. This was all deliberate on GRRM part. Daario was introduced after ACOK. Jon was not made to attract Dany, and vice versa. Jon prefers women like Ygritte and Arya (not Sansa or Myrcella). He says as such when Robb first meets the queen's daughter, and later in ADWD. Dany is a regal queen. For most of her life she was a passive girl, and now she is a brave queen. None of this is to say she would attract Jon or vice versa. I wrote a post about this on the last page. This again was deliberate. There is nothing in the text to align the two together. The "love" spoken about in the house of the undying was someone altogether different. This is the Valonqar, or the Sphinx if you will. In the show they changed Jon to "Aegon". They had him turn into a unconvincing partner to Dany, but they could not set up a love triangle between him and Arya (for obvious reasons). The show cut the Sphinx and the Valonqar (that is why they were not mentioned. Again, if the Valonqar was Jaime, the prophecy would have remained as is). He is only changing faces, he can revert back to his true face whenever. So? It fits then that Aegon VI spent most of his time growing up in Essos. Not in a satisfying way. I will enumerate why when I get to each complaint. But here is a sample: Lemore and YG destroying/ignoring memorabilia sent to them is completely normal. Maggy had no reason for changing languages for just one word (besides brevity which makes no sense). Pate isn't a real pig boy so there is no reference to the swineherd. The usage of piss and arbor gold in a backstory has no connection to established symbolism. The reborn head has nothing to do with the three heads of the dragon. Rhaegar STOLE Lyanna but Thief isn't the proper usage of terms (it is and it is ridiculous you argue this point). Among other things. If you give fair complaints, then I try to expand upon an explanation. However, tackling the above is more difficult bescause it bellies a claim that needs stating. Why indeed are any of these legitimate complaints, because rather than engaging with the issue, it tries to claim that there is none there at all. Yes, he wants a dragon and a girl. He wants a dragon for the girl. He still wants the girl even as he wants the dragon. Therefore he wants the dragon and the girl. He wants both of these things. Rhaegar wanted the fifteen year old maiden and the dragon. You could say he wanted the girl for the dragon, but he wanted both (also he was love-struck so I imagine he wanted Lyanna for who she was). He ran off with the girl, just as Pate wishes to run off with Rosey. There is a reason there is a motif about dragons in that prologue. They are mentioned again and again, and the gold is always referenced to as a dragon. "Do you have my dragon?" "Is the girl worth a dragon?" These choice of phrase are littered throughout the entire prologue. These references are simple and obvious. Leo even says he will go on to "herd swine". And finally we reach the line about the thief. So we have two references in this chapter about a hidden prince. Rhaegar was also a prince, and Pate is much like him. They are both thieves "you won’t do better. Do you want her? Do you love her?" "I am no thief". This is how the statement was ordered. Both Rhaegar and Pate are thieves, but they deny it at first. When an answer is banging itself right in front of you, you ought to see it. No, it is a reference to the three heads of the dragon, that should be obvious. Each one is describe to the point. The devouring head, the reborn head, and the mystery head. Arya is the devourer of worms. Worms devour the dead from the inside. Worms are related to dragons. Not just from Nennius, but also from the stories told by the kindly man about the fire wyrms. Azor Ahai reborn, Jon snow. The mystery head, the Sphinx. The Sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler. He is the mystery meant to be solved. There is the devourer, and the wormed apple. Both were references to the three heads of the dragon. Alleras shoots three apples, before he starts he says the dragon has three heads. Arya not only eats wormed apples, but she also enjoys the tastes of worms. She eats the worm from the kindly man's eyes. This is repeated throughout the entire series, you probably missed it, but it is very obvious. I have shown it to you, for which I expect you are thankful. The credit involved here should make you consider the plausibility, or at least decrease the level of disbelief you have managed to uphold. Arya is also caught in the middle of dragon fire at the gods eye (metaphorically), and she is to be married to a dragon like Lyanna was. But staying on the reference of devouring, crows are not referred to as dragons, only worms are worms. Crows feast on leftovers, the worm devours the the dying. Since before Nennius, worms are related to dragons. Receiving news of someone's death has nothing to do with marriage, or a bonding, but a funeral. Swearing vows (along with many others) to an organization is different. And what does Ned confronting Cersei have to with bonding? Arya has three examples. Coming out from under her father's cloak, being pledged to by a man, and the marriage between fArya and Ramsay. Well, the story is much the same. She would have chosen Rhaegar over Jaime, she said as such. Rhaegar remained in her mind after all these years, and she still dwells on him. That is why she always hated Robert, and it why she wore black with studded rubies after his death. Just like Lyanna remained on Robert's mind so many years later. Robert was to marry Lyanna, and Cersei was to marry Rhaegar. Instead Rhaegar married Lyanna, and Robert/Cersei were stuck with one another. You see how the four of them are tied in the same fate. According to your own link, he was referenced in five chapters, not two. Please read your own link. But besides, I have already shown you the depth of her recollections, and how he was the most beautiful man ever to her (which goes back to the Valonqar, for beauty is subjective). There is more too, but I literally dissected full pages of references for you so I don't need to do again. That was one of the things I worked hard to produce, so I hope you read it well. The story was false, something told to YG at a young age (and Connington). Varys and Ilyrio lie a lot. However the story is interesting, because it is written to present the truth. As is the case with backstories like this. The arbor gold is a reference to lies, this is established in the books. It is not the same as some just drinking arbor gold at random, because it is a device of the story. As is the pisswater prince. This is not the first time urine and arbor gold are compared to one another. So you must find it interesting both are used in this same story. The pisswater prince was traded for arbor gold. The tanner had other sons (reference to young griff, Ilyrio's true son) so he gave away this one. Also, Tanners skin animals, YG is given the false sigil of another house, the animal of a house that is not his. Yes, look at the usage in the story. House Dayne is said to be the oldest house, they are the ancient house. Start with the noble father (Rhaegar is referenced to as noble). Go from there. Let's look at Mercy's chapter: "On stage, Bobono was bargaining with Marro’s sinister Stranger. He had a big voice for such a little man, and he made it ring off the highest rafters now. “Give me the cup,” he told the Stranger, “for I shall drink deep. And if it tastes of gold and lion’s blood, so much the better. As I cannot be the hero, let me be the monster, and lesson them in fear in place of love.” The Stranger is the one who provides the poison. This the alchemist (or Valonqar) who calls himself the stranger. He provides the poison to Olenna and Oberyn. Famously, outside the story. But Paradise lost is also where the seven folded rage comes from, as reference to the seven gods of his father. I am establishing something. Her first name is Arya horseface, Lyanna was the horse girl. And Ned tells Arya she will marry a king after the passage under the heart tree and the red dragon bloom. I am establishing themes, a theme is not always present in every passage. SIGH Jaqen asks her to name a king, and she names Jaqen. This was not intentional, but it is what it is. They were and they are. In ASOIAF, there are many allusions and foreshadowing to the three heads of the dragon. The trios like the apples is an example of this. It is not some living breathing religion to the side, it is a creation of GRRM. We are talking about people ancillary to them who are referenced in their introduction. No, because this is important for one character. Say I use an object to allude to something, not everyone else who uses that object is subject to that allusion. Mercy plays the role of a mummer, that is her character. The FM do not, they play the role of whatever identity is available to them. She is not Weasel, she is not claiming to be Weasel, using a name is not the same thing as using an identity. Arry is not an identity either. Arya is her only true identity, a name among others. That is why Jaqen says a girl has many names. Just like he says earlier, "a man must have a name". Jaqen is not real, but it is one of his names. But behind all this, him like Arya has a real name. The other names are not separate identities of other real people. This is a terrible argument. The old gods are not only prayed to by those who speak the common tongue. He breaks with his speech pattern when swearing to Arya (under the heart tree) and again you claim this is totally normal. That there is nothing to see. A concoction of your own stubbornness. Arya does understand what he saying, he doesn't need to change anything. I am demonstrating the truth for you to see, it is all very obvious and very true. Like I have demonstrated Arya as the eater of worms, and the wormed apple. Something you did not recognize until our first interaction. Pate is the POV, but him and his fellowship are the perspective we are see, it is their conversation and there actions. We do not see what other people at the Tavern are doing, because this is our main group. Why, it is incredibly obvious. We are told specifically the arrows are gold, and the apples are red. The shape of the arrow is like a spear, and the apple is like the sun. He (she) cored the center of the red apple with the gold apple. The martell sigil is a gold spear piercing the center of a red sun. In fact it's not a spear crossed with a sun, it is specifically drawn to show the spear through the center. Just as we are told Alleras cored the apple at the center. The wormed apple is Arya. I have more than explained why. And the missed apple is Jon (missed at birth, he is the bastard. Aegon and Arya are not bastards). What is contradictory, what is not obvious? It's hard for me to believe you when I have certainly highlighted things you missed. The worms and Arya. The fire at the gods eye and the dragon. etc. Things before hand you didn't know, and know you know. The Swineherd included. This isn't some plan, he does not send the ginger or the clothes as part of a plan. They are memories he sends to his family. If he wanted them destroyed or ignored, he could have done that himself. YG never wore those clothes, that is the point. Otherwise she would mention it, not destroy it. Aegon wore those clothes. The healers were messengers in this story, which brought the father to ask for revenge. They are the deliverers of vengeance. Whatever, I will over view the story somewhere in this reply. This happened in the show. The motives behind Lyanna and Arya is what we look towards, not how things turned out He doesn't say that, Arya does. It's not a prophecy, it is just a clue. Arya asked if she could become a high speton, that is probably why she mentioned one. But as goes the story... Barristan is the first person we hear this from, and it makes perfect sense. Ashara could not hide her pregnancy, but if the baby was taken away then to remove any doubt it must have been said to be stillborn. Barristan was a kingsguard near the royal family, so he knew of this side of the story. Others said she tried to kill herself because of her dead brother, other stories say she never jumped at all. Please reread AGOT, we are told different accounts of her story. The fifth book is the first time we hear about a stillborn. Perpetrator for what happened during the sack when those people died. More likely it is because Arya asked if she could become a high septon, and she is the one listing these names. Of course not, this is what I am saying. If Aegon VI was heir to the throne. Viserys is dead at this moment. But regardless, Aegon sees himself as the rightful king, and in many ways he should be. He has better rights than Dany, and if Aegon was never presumed dead then Viserys would not have a claim either. Yes well, Euron does. Whether the warlocks do, you better ask them. Myrcella does not cry when she is taken away from her family. There is little evidence that such a pair would work (as I say so above). The show changed Jon to Aegon and removed the Valonqar to keep fan favorites front and center. It is why there romance didn't work. Also it is why the love triangle wasn't able to be implemented. It actually is. Rhaegar did not name a second son Aegon. In the show Gilly wants to name her child Jon. In the books she wanted to name Mance's son after Aemon. These names are the same, and the scenes are taken from the same source material. According to the Kindly man, they are not covert operatives hoping to steal a book on dragons. He has promises to keep, like killing Balon. But as he said, promises, more than one. Not just to kill Balon, but also to hatch the dragon egg and fulfill his destiny. Yeah, but to kill yourself and gain vengeance. Her life as payment for the gift. the waif: "I did not die", but she suffered worse. In that you give your life so the gift can be given to someone else. In the HoBaW, you can give your own life as payment for a contract. Her hope for vengeance, he is the red right hand. Against the people that destroyed Rhaegar's family. Remember the line, she looked to Stark? She was the one that wanted to split Lyanna from Rhaegar, so she thought using Brandon would be the easiest way. This however was not meant to lead to a war. She, like her brother, still serviced Rhaegar, she only was thinking what would be best for Elia. Self-guilt most likely. As to why she should blame herself... it is because she wouldn't be able to find peace with herself otherwise. Whatever was being referred to in the reply. She didn't, Barristan did. If he had unhorsed Rhaegar, the prince could never have crowned Lyanna in the first place. Look to, yes that is true. In fact she did look to Brandon to try and get him to split Lyanna from Rhaegar. Ashara did this for Elia's sake. She didn't know it would lead to Brandon's death, or a war that kills Rhaegar and his family. That is part of the reason why she has poisoned herself such as she has. It does. The waif says she is tell part mistruth and part lie. Then Arya ends by asking was the whole thing a lie. The best lies have bits of truth in them. Here is the quote: She did not expect the waif to answer, but she did. “I was born the only child of an ancient House, my noble father’s heir,” the waif replied. “My mother died when I was little, I have no memory of her. When I was six my father wed again. His new wife treated me kindly until she gave birth to a daughter of her own. Then it was her wish that I should die, so her own blood might inherit my father’s wealth. She should have sought the favor of the Many-Faced God, but she could not bear the sacrifice he would ask of her. Instead, she thought to poison me herself. It left me as you see me now, but I did not die. When the healers in the House of the Red Hands told my father what she had done, he came here and made sacrifice, offering up all his wealth and me. Him of Many Faces heard his prayer. I was brought to the temple to serve, and my father’s wife received the gift.” Arya considered her warily. “Is that true?” “There is truth in it.” “And lies as well?” “There is an untruth, and an exaggeration.” She had been watching the waif’s face the whole time she told her story, but the other girl had shown her no signs. “The Many-Faced God took two-thirds of your father’s wealth, not all.” “Just so. That was my exaggeration.” The ancient house is house Dayne, the noble father is Rhaegar. Aegon's mother died when he was little, he has no memory of her. He is the sixth in his name when his father wed Lyanna. Ashara was the one that sought to poison the well, so Lyanna and Rhaegar would not have their own child. It left her as you see her now, but she did not die. The Red Hands means vengeance, so she was given in exchange for that vengeance. However one more thing was given for the sake of vengeance. Rhaegar's (the father) wealth. These are his sons who would uphold the vengeance or memory that Ashara was give for. Arya asks if it was 2/3 of her father's wealth, and the waif says yes. Rhaenys is dead so only 2/3 of his children are still alive to fulfill the payment. "There is truth in it". So the story is not the truth, it is a version of the truth. If you believe this story is the whole story, then you come up against the waif's own addendum. If you believe the 2/3 was the only lie, then you should tell that the waif is lying again. Arya asks: “What part was the lie?” “No part. I lied about the lie.” “Did you? Or are you lying now?” The kindly man interrupts before the truth could be figured out. It is the general interpretation. I will find more text, but much of it is implied. Her ghostly eyes, and her pale skin, it is all together different than just a typical beauty. That is why she stood out at the Tourney. It is a small locket with a painted picture, hardly anything identifiable. Oh but why? You say the fire at the gods eye has nothing to do with dragon fire when I already overviewed the text. But you went back and pretend that evidence was never presented. They don't represent Quentyn, they are like Quentyn. Quentyn failed because he thought his dragon blood would help him. Arya will succeed where Quentyn failed even though she doesn't have dragon's blood. The message is, you don't need Targaryen blood to fly a dragon. Same goes with Dany. Read GRRM quote again. He said that is what the observant reader would guess, but he makes no promises because he has more to reveal. Like in the bloody hands play the valonqar (or stranger) was involved. He was poisoned. This is known. Oberyn tells Tyrion "your father may not live forever". When Tyrion finds him Tywin is on the privy, because he had drank widow's blood which is keep his digestive tract from working. It is why his body smells so much after he is dead. Tyrion's bolt was a mercy, Tywin was a dead man walking. Again, prophecy's work in curious ways. It says the Valonqar (younger and more beautiful person) will cast her down and take everything she holds dear. She holds her children dear, they will be killed in the name of Aegon VI. A fake taking the title of the real Valonqar. He didn't. but the symbol of the swine killing Robert and the swineherd killing the other usurpers is there for shrewd eyes to see. Again, 5/10 chapters, not 2. Cersei will. Beauty is subjective, but we know she find Rhaegar the most beautiful. Who is a younger and more beautiful version of Rhaegar? His son.
  8. Barristan when he is first demoted by the boy king. Though if I could have any POV at any moment, it would be Sandor.
  9. I will admit my motives are slightly selfish. I hope, by the end, that you will be convinced and spread the truth among your flock. It is easier to explain something to one person than it is to do the same for a general population. Otherwise your criticism holds no merit, but I appreciate the input. Of course I have enjoyed rereading passages, but I once more I find your denial curious. You have put me in a difficult position, so perhaps I should explain. Once I demonstrated the role of the nightingale, rose, and pigboy in the prologue to AFFC, your reaction should have been congratulatory. In that I have identified something you would have otherwise missed. Continuing along, the role of the three apples, the two sphinxes, and the Strider/Aragorn description should have been a coming to grace moment (for yourself). Finally, the dragon and the fifteen year old maiden should have sealed the deal. Instead, there has been nothing but denial on your end. It is curious, very curious. I believe you to be an honest person, and perhaps you initial objective of proving me wrong has colored our interaction. Nonetheless, I would suggest to not image yourself as a representative of this site, but rather an interested book reader with an open mind. Do not adjust your mindset for the collective goal of disciplining a new member (to this site) but rather picture our communication as if we had met in a bookstore with a shared interest in a book series. We strike up a conversation about our shared interest, and we each share little tidbits we noticed. I believe, truly, that the end result would be different. Not least of all because minor misunderstandings would quickly by adjusted. Nonetheless I retain hope that this communication will end in success. Again, it is but one of many. The "thick" mass or "dense" mat is one in the same. Thick or Dense hair mean on in the same thing. Perhaps inverse is a better word to use? You must understand what I mean, I have (I hope) explained adequetly. Aemon references one of the Sphinxes, the one who is a head of the dragon. Dany is the mother of dragons, not one of the heads. Sam notices two Sphinxes outside of the citadel, one female, one male. He meets both, each going by a false name respectively. Alleras and Pate. Again we must reference "The Swineherd" by Hans Christian Anderson. The fairy tale is not called "The Swineherd prince", just "The Swineherd". The second reference to a hidden king/prince is the Alchemist. He has a travelers cloak, and watches our characters on shady part of a tavern. When he meets Pate, he calls his friends the "fellowship". If there is an remaining doubt, please look no further than the three apples. The first apple is cored. A gold arrow coring a red apple. The Martell sigil is a gold spear striking the center of a red sun. Aemon is not referencing Oberyn's bastard, he is referencing the prince who was promised. Thank you for reading, I hope this is enough to help. My friend, the multi-colored hair was a nod to Dany's romantic partners (future and past). Not Alleras. The reasons for the red and white hair are of Aegon VI's own proclivities, not that if his false identity (Jaqen H'ghar). Red and White have nothing to do with the free city of Lorath. Did you explain? Perhaps you could provide an abridged list. The only one you have as of recent responded to (from my list) is a reference to the Swineherd Prince. But as I mentioned above, Hans Christian Anderson's fairy tale is NOT called the Swineherd Prince, just the Swineherd. And we do have references to the Swineherd in the series, mainly from Dany when she called Ilyrio's manse (the place Aegon VI live in) a SWINEHERD's HOVEL. Honestly I think GRRM was very impressed with himself when he wrote that, he must have been giggling in joy, knowing most people will miss the foreshadowing. Now I will produce the list once more, and you can tell me (in short) which you do not agree has been established: 1. Pate and the Swineherd prince. The Nightingale and the Rose 2. Pate wants a dragon and a fifteen year old maiden 3. The Alchemist as Strider, and the fellowship at the tavern 4. Arya is the devourer of worms. Note there are two given metaphors for the three heads of the dragon. One is the devouring head, the other is the wormed apple. Both are clear references to Arya. Her being the eater of worms is established many times throughout the series. 6. Arya under the heart tree. She is first awoken under her father's cloak by a dragon's bloom while sleeping by the heart tree. She is pledged to under the heart tree at Harrenhall. fArya is married under the heart tree. 7. Cersei is obsessed with Rhaegar, like Robert is with Lyanna. She wears a black dress studied with rubies after Robert dies, and she daydreams about him throughout the course of the entire fourth book. 8. Arbor Gold is lies (this is established), urine is truth. The story of YG's background plays on the symbolism of truth and lies. The Pisswater prince was traded for Arbor Gold. The truth was traded for lies. You must agree with this, correct? 9. The Swineherd prince is well established, as is the role of swine in the story. A boar kills Robert, and the place from which Aegon lived is referenced to as a Swineherd Hovel. 10. The red hand. It is mentioned in the Waif's backstory, and it is mentioned again in the play called the bloody hand(s). In that play, the stranger is the true killer. The alchemist references himself as the stranger. The red right hand is the hand of vengeance. 11. Rhaegar loved Lyanna (GRRM calls him a love-struck prince). 12. Arya is a clear and obvious parallel to Lyanna. 13. One of the themes of the series is history repeating itself. 14. Ned says Arya will be a queen, Arya calls Jaqen a king. Which of the above is an 'assumption'? Are they all not well established? These are only from the top of my head, I know I have provided much more in this thread alone. I am also curious, if you do reject any of these established points, what to you think the general impression of the fandom (on this site) would be? Would they reject such basic observations so easily? That is because there is not. Sarella is a sphinx but not one of the heads of the dragon. Aegon being a Sphinx is separate from him being a head of the dragon. The only relationship they have is Maester Aemon. He speaks of his bloodline and the three heads, then tells Sam the Sphinx is the riddle. He is not referencing Oberyn's bastard, but his own bloodline. The three heads of the Shepherd are used as a reference to the three heads of the dragon, otherwise they would not exist. Most of the fandom have attempted to decipher clues from this excerpt. I believe I have done so quite effectively. Yes, the speaker is the narrator. Related in so far as they are cellmates. On being introduced, both characters are referenced alongside another being called an "Ape" or "Monkey". Yes, and for when it was introduced, it served its purpose. He as the author can choose to utilize it further if he so wishes (which he did). Yes, and if Jaqen was a real person he would not be glib about his identity, because again, it would be his identity. For example, Alayne and Cat are false identity, they are not real. The people underneath are still Sansa and Arya. Once the mask is worn, the FM are suppose to embody that person, not show glib smiles or play the role of a mummer. Arya asks him if his name is real. Is Jaqen H’ghar your true name?” “Some men have many names. Weasel. Arry. Arya.” The comparison is with Arya, who makes up fake names, not a person with a real identity. A wonder how you do not find this as evidence. Many others would, but you however retain a general disposition against anything and everything I have said. The Lorathi have their own oaths, and he would offer one to Arya if she asked. And if he were to give an oath under the Heart tree, he would speak in his own manner. His personality does not change to fit the whims of one girl. Now I must ask, since you (unlike pretty much everyone else) find nothing of note in this line, I must ask an outrageous question: Are you adjusting your opinions to my posts alone whereas towards others you would respect their findings? The book is titled "The Swineherd". You can read it if you want. Here is a translation: https://andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheSwineherd_e.html There are references to a Swineherd, specifically Dany mentioning Ilyrio's manse as a SWINEHERD's HOVEL. Do you not even smile at the reference? I just found it, and it had me laughing for a good minute. Anyone who enjoys GRRM's writing should appreciate that line. They are the POV characters, the one the man in the traveler's cloak is watching seated in the dark. He goes on to reference the POV and his friends as a fellowship. Again, clear and obvious. The apple is first thrown when Alleras says "the dragon has three heads". The trios is not just three objects, but three heads of the same beast. Sigh I wonder many times if you withhold this type of hyper specification just for me, or is this just your general disposition? You are ranked noble so I bow my head in deference. I am but a squire and have no friends on this site, but all my exertion has been treated with a cold shoulder. I am not asking for pity, but it is disheartening at times and I ask you not to see me as your enemy. Arbor gold is a symbol (this is known, please ask your other companions on this site), that does not mean every time it is mentioned it is referencing a lie. However, in the story being told, the usage of metaphors are clear and obvious. Again, him sending things of sentimentality does only to be destroyed shows a difference of intent. If Ilyrio is the father (or foster father) and his sentimentality brings him to send a boy's cloths and favorite food to him and his mother (foster mother) you must ask why the recipients rejected these gifts off hand. Neither are noticed or even given a warm mention. YG does not bother with the ginger, and the mother (or foster mother) does not recall her own child's clothing. Please read the waif's backstory for mention of the red hand. The meeting under the heart tree plays out as such: This is the first time he calls her “My lady of Stark.” Again this is him swearing an oath under a heart tree, much like Lyanna and Rhaegar did at Harrenhall. Notice she wants to free the men of her house, just as Lyanna defended Howland, her "father's man". "“A man, a woman, a little baby, or Lord Tywin, or the High Septon, or your father" These are the people Arya references, to see who she could kill. With the exception of "your father", these three are related to kingsland, where the king lives. 1. A man: Aerys dies in KL 2. A woman: Elia dies in KL 3. A little baby: Ashara's baby, the one killed in the sack of KL 4. Lord Tywin: the perpetrator, he dies in Kingslanding as well. The last mention is a High Septon, this is a reference to the high sparrow who has Cersei locked away (he like Tywin is a perpatrator). She will also die in Kingslanding. So will the High Septon. Your father is Rhaegar, Jaqen responds: “A man’s sire is long dead, but did he live, and did you know his name, he would die at your command.” Arya then says: “Even if I named the king . . .” Jaqen says he could kill a king and whispers "Is it Joffrey?" Arya then whispers his name. Joffrey is mentioned in a whisper, as is Jaqen. Both are kings. She does not say "go kill yourself", she references his name in question of a king. Of course she doesn't know, and it is only incidentally. But the way it was written was very clever. A product of colorful personalities. Not the like of Jon Snow. She would be. Myrcella never cried when she was sent off to Dorne, she stood up to Joffrey, and she showed bravery when dealing with the conspirators. She is still young but if given that chance she would be very brave. But that bravery does not come from being a tomboy (like Arya). What other theories or people are we talking about? They cut the Valonqar and three heads of the dragon, otherwise they would be mentioned in the show. The show fused together characters, it is why they named Jon "Aegon" even though his Targaryen name in the books is "Aemon". Azor Ahai reborn, it's a loop. He is Azor Ahai, and vice versa. They both come from each other. When Melisandre was looking for Azor Ahai, all she could find was snow. Jon Snow. I have shown you the imagery of her being sworn to under a heart tree. 1. coming out of her father's cloak under the heart tree awoken by the red dragon bloom. 2. Being pledged to under the heart tree in Harrenhall 3. fArya's marriage under the heart tree Did you watch the documentary? It was very long. Again, you can think for yourself, the evidence is clear and obvious. Yes. Let me put it this way, he does not plan to steal a book from the citadel for the Facelessmen, something that doesn't fit their MO. With Jaqen? He breaks from the speech pattern, and smiles glibly like he has a secret to hold. He enjoys making up names, among other things I have already gone over. NOW, if you wanted to say that secret was that he was a faceless man, then that would not be Jaqen's secret (since Jaqen would be a real person different from the face holder). He was born with that promise, and he must live up to it. Such is the curse of great expectations. She tried, jumping into the water, didn't work. So she had a change of heart, thought she would find a way in the house of the undying, kill herself to for vengeance. This is the red hand mentioned in the waif's backstory, the vengeance. Rhaegar's son was her answer, so she did not die. She felt she owed Rhaegar, and pays penance for betraying him. Reread AGOT. I don't have the quotes, but the whole purpose of Ashara as the different people hear different things about her. Some say she jumped, others say different things. Some said she had a child, some don't. The first we hear of a stillborn is from Barristan. The point is two things. 1. There is mystery about what happened. 2. GRRM likes talking about how people have different versions of the same event. Or again, just reread AGOT. Yes, not a random guess. It is an estimate based on their appearance. Which is, to say, to give us an idea of what they look like. Actually, it was Brandon's. Though we can blame Rhaegar as well. Or you could say it was Jon Arryn for not sending Ned/Robert to KL. Instead he called his banners. Technically is was Arryn. But alas, Ashara blames herself (as she should). This is a well known concept, please search it up. He did not wish for Ashara to romance him in this phrase. If it were Brandon that would mean Barristan wished her to be attracted to him instead of Stark. But Barristan is a kingsguard, he can take no wife. And he takes his vows seriously. Now reread the passage, Barristan is thinking about how he could stop the war. Had he just won, Lyanna and Rhaegar would never become a problem. Who started that problem? Ashara when she looked to Lyanna as a threat to Elia. Elia was too meek to do this herself. What do you supposed "looked to" means? That it would be a momentary glance? Come on, use context. The characters at the tourney, Brandon, Ashara, Rhaegar, Lyanna. Again, I have not overviewed the whole thing for you. Please read it as the narration shifts between Ashara and Aegon VI. There are plenty of fans who reference her beauty as being more than common, which is why she stood out so compared to a person like Cersei. Lyanna also had a special beauty, hers being "wild". Yes, and it was not called a pigsty or pigpen. It was referenced as a SWINEHERD HOVEL. Like the Swineherd, who was a secret prince. Yes, if she was Ilyrio's wife. That is why she reacted as she did, tearing it to pieces. Not what Ilyrio would have wanted. This plan was not known to Ilyrio. SIGH PLEASE tell me you are not serious, I worked through the passage to explain how this fire is referenced to as a dragon (snake, lizard, wings, roar of a beast, etc.). Please, please, please, please do not say you are serious. That is because there is no dragon at the gods eye. There are only references to the fire and dragons. A hissing massive white lizard fighting against chains. Viserion from the dragontamers chapter. Words from the book. Again, read the quote from George. Oberyn did poison Tywin, but he did not do so with Doran's knowledge. He was working with someone else (otherwise he would not commit to such a plan on his own against his brother's will). Again, read the quote from GRRM. He said this is what the observant reader should suspect, but he is making no promises. Prophecies work in mysterious, and not always exact ways. For example (as you may not know) Myrcella is returning to KL with Tommen. Connington has just promised not to fail YG like he failed Rhaegar by being more like Tywin. What did Tywin do? He sacked the city, and killed the two young heirs. Connington will do the same, he will have Tommen and Myrcella killed to protect YG's claim, all in the name of Aegon VI (the Valonqar). Just because YG is not the real Aegon, does not mean the prophecy is not real (prophecies are what Marwyn said they are). My method deals with facts. The connection between the boar killing Robert (the usurper) and Aegon (the swineherd) taking vengeance, is there for anyone to see. I won't explain, because I want to make this reply chain shorter, not longer. But to give you a brief summary, Robert Strong will kill YG (Cersei's vengance for her kids, and Connington's ultimate faliure. GRRM message: don't be like Tywin). If you want to know why or how YG loses (in the end), read blind Beth's chapter and pay close attention. Only the Valonqar will kill her. You must recognize how often Rhaegar is mentioned in the chapters leading up to the prophecy. You do notice that, don't you? And how much Cersei uses the word beautiful to reference him. The most beautiful, more beautiful than anyone else. This is Cersei's standard of beauty. Whomever she faces is more beautiful by her standards. Who is younger and more beautiful than Rhaegar, his son. The little brother, the Valonqar. He will cast her down and kill her. So you are agree with me in caps? Thanks I guess... Side note: Beauty is not completely subjective, but that is an argument for a different place. PS. To your comment about Dany, she has been a scared girl for fourteen years, as we have only known her for two-three years. Three years of regal uncertainty does not discount the majority of her life. This is what is meant by "you must remember". Dany takes it to mean she must remember her claim on westeros, but what it really means is she must remember that kind little girl she once was. If she forgets, then great acts of evil can happen with fire and blood. But this is all besides the point, Dany finds her strength from her femininity, not from being a tomboy. I think even you with your connection between Sansa and Ygritte (nothing alike) should be able to see that.
  10. How is Dany like Val or Arya? Daenerys likes jewels and pretty clothes, she sits on a throne and gives out orders. Liking to ride on horseback is a great aristocratic ideal, and for much of her life she was a frightened girl. Her strength doesn't come from being a tomboy, it comes from her ancestry, which is very different from Val/Ygritte/Arya.
  11. It is very difficult to prove something when evidence that has already been established is disregarded three/four posts later. I stopped posting for a duration of time and this thread was inactive, so it has nothing to do with me. I am trying to explain who the three heads of the dragon are. And Hopeful I can convince you to see the truth, but I need good faith. I put a lot of time and energy into finding evidence for yourself, I hope you can at least appreciate my work. It references their hair. One is clean, the other is dirty. "His hair was red on one side and white on the other, all matted and filthy from cage and travel" "dense mat of close-cropped jet-black curls." The verb and the noun are related to one another. Matted: "tangled into a thick mass" In AFFC Alleras has a "dense mat" of hair" which is again like a thick mass. He is clean (that is established) and Jaqen is dirty, opposites and parallels. It dependents. Mead is fermented honey, but sometimes it's referred to as honeyed wine. Fruit wine is different from cider. Cider is fermented and bottled to have it carbonated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cider#Blending_and_bottling They (in the books) drink cider from a tankard, wine is associated with goblets and chalices. For are sake, the alcoholic drink is related to an empty and full tankard. "The prisoner lifted an empty tankard" - ACOK The fellowship is drinking from full tankards. At the quill and tankard. There is a second Sphinx. I have told you this already, but again it seems you have failed to mention it. In the reply, not once did you highlight this fact. Outside the gates of the citadel, Sam sees TWO sphinxes, a man and a woman. He meets the female Sphinx, Alleras inside. He also meets the male Sphinx inside, Pate. The Sphinx is the riddle, the mystery head of the trios. I have already explained why Aegon VI is a sphinx, I hope and pray you can see the truth. I have provided numerous pieces of evidence much you seem to forget. However, once certain truths are establish, we can look for ways in which they fit the larger story. And in this case, they fit perfectly. That is certainly worth mentioning. Only that, if an answer fits the larger narrative, then that retroactively works to increase the viability of that answer. We know there are two Sphinxes, as I have established. Aemon is saying there is a riddle behind who the Sphinx is. The Sphinx is the riddle. GRRM is telling us about the mystery head of the dragon he wants us to figure out. The unknown head of the trios. And Arya is the one speaking otherwise. The point of matter is both characters (Sarella and Aegon) are related to another described as a monkey/ape from the summer isles. Neither of whom are compared to such a thing directly. Yes, neither of the characters are compared to an Ape/Monkey. This has been stated already. Alleras is not compared to one either, his MOTHER is. Jaqen is not compared to a monkey, his cellmate is. And these are both established on early introductions to the two characters. With evidence from the text. I have provided much and more. The worm eater, the marriage under the heart tree, the mystery head of the trios, the swineherd prince, and you refuse to acknowledge proof beyond a reasonable doubt. So let me ask you clearly right now: Are these conclusions (above) clear and obvious? If not, why? I have provided overwhelming evidence, which you may have forgotten. The truth is there, you just have to be willing to see it. A group of mercenaries that exist at the will of the author. The Bloody mummers are meant to reinforce the overall conclusion about his duplicitous act. He likes making up names, he smiles like he has a secret to behold (not the action of someone with a fake mask working for a religious cult). He breaks his speech pattern (for all intent and purpose this also applies to accent, but I don't wish to continue that argument) under the heart tree, and he has promises to keep. If the other characters involved behave in a certain way, then I am sure that is relevant to their story. Just not the overarching story of ASOIAF. Both Rorge and Biter play with false identities, that is their relationship to the bloody mummers. However their stories are not that important. If someone is a member of the bloody mummers, they play the role of a false identity. That does not mean ONLY members of the bloody mummers can play the role of a false identity. I have, I have. It is disheartening to here you say this. But alas, let us innumerate what has been established: 1. Pate and the Swineherd prince. The Nightengale and the Rose 2. The Alchemist as Strider, and the fellowship at the tavern 3. Arya is the devourer of worms. Note there are two given metaphors for the three heads of the dragon. One is the devouring head, the other is the wormed apple. Both are clear references to Arya. Her being the eater of worms is established many times throughout the series. 4. Arya under the heart tree. She is first awoken under her father's cloak by a dragon's bloom while sleeping by the heart tree. She is pledged to under the heart tree at Harrenhall. fArya is married under the heart tree. 5. Cersei is obsessed with Rhaegar, like Robert is with Lyanna. She wears a black dress studied with rubies after Robert dies, and she daydreams about him throughout the course of the entire fourth book. 6. Arbor Gold is lies (this is established), urine is truth. The story of YG's background plays on the symbolism of truth and lies. The Pisswater prince was traded for Arbor Gold. The truth was traded for lies. You must agree with this, correct? [Side note: Ilyrio is "oddly sad" despite barely knowing young griff. You yourself have stated that YG left when he was but a child, yet Ilyrio has sentimental memories of a son who's personal effects he sends halfway across the world] 7. The Swineherd prince is well established, as is the role of swine in the story. A boar kills Robert, and the place from which Aegon lived is referenced to as a Swineherd Hovel. 8. The red hand. It is mentioned in the Waif's backstory, and it is mentioned again in the play called the bloody hand(s). In that play, the stranger is the true killer. The alchemist references himself as the stranger. The red right hand is the hand of vengeance. 9. Rhaegar loved Lyanna (GRRM calls him a love-struck prince). 10. Arya is a clear and obvious parallel to Lyanna. 11. One of the themes of the series is history repeating itself. 12. Ned says Arya will be a queen, Arya calls Jaqen a king. And much, much more. As I have discussed over many posts. But for now, dare explain how one of these points is not established. Because otherwise we cannot go on in good faith. Things must be extrapolated off of what is already established. I have discussed this elsewhere. Dany would not be attracted to Jon. Drogo has bells in his beard, and Euron has the blue lips. She will not love Euron, but again he is established as alike to her lovers. She calls Daario a monster, and Drogo is clearly one, but she lusts after both. As for Daenerys herself, she is a leader, brave, but feminine, much like Myrcella. Dany is not rough and tumble like Arya, Ygritte, or Val. She enjoys jewels, and pretty slippers, and does not fight herself. Jon is attracted to the former three, not Dany. So despite it being well established that neither would be attracted to one another, a massive segment of the fandom decided that they would fall in love. Daenerys will have a central lover. It is the one she will mount, it is the one a treason will be committed for, and the one she will set a fire for. Her nephew, Aegon VI. He was established as being a colorful rouge who makes women swoon. He is her match. But like the original outline, certain things were changed. Daenerys was added, as was Aegon VI. Arya know has a new lover, and Tyrion will lust after Dany (it was established in the show). The producers could not tell that story, so they cut out the Valonqar, the three heads of the dragon, and made Jon into Aegon. All Targaryens not born of incest are half-Targaryen. Aegon and Rhaenys were both half Dornish. Hm? I am speaking of human nature, it is possible for the most obvious answer to go so far astray when the masses begin to debate something. "The first head devours the dying, and the reborn emerge from the third. I don’t know what the middle head’s supposed to do" This is the line. 1. Devours the dying. Wormed apples are dying, worms are symbols of death as they fester on corpses in the ground. 2. Reborn emerges from the third. This means the third head is from where the reborn arises. Jon will be reborn, as he is the third head. He is Azor Ahai reborn. 3. The middle head is the mystery head, it is unknown. You can see the truth if you want, but you have to be willing. Is shown, on three different occasions. Please explain why not. The story changes. Originally it was Jon, Tyrion, and Arya. Daenerys and Aegon were added later. I am speaking about human nature, and I provided a real world example. This is history of which we speak. If you are curious here is a documentary on the subject. It is form the Smithsonian's Channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAelWV2iaK4 Yes, and I don't believe he kills Pate for the facelessmen. But as I was saying before, the secret he is hiding is his identity. There is a reason he smiles all the time, and enjoys making up false names and repeating his place of birth (much like Hugor Hill and Alleras). If it were just a false mask, then he would embody that person, not dangle a secret in front of everyone. Please read the Waif's backstory by shifting the narration between Aegon VI and Ashara Dayne. Pay attention to 2/3s of her father's wealth. Much like Young Griff's backstory, the telling is riddled with imagery and symbolism. Want has nothing to do with it. Like joining the nightswatch, once you are a member there is no getting out. Aegon was thirteen at the time, a year younger than Jon in the first book. He only leaves once he realizes his true identity. He tells Arya he has promises to keep, he is the prince who was promised. He must fulfill his destiny (or so he thinks). Braavos is closer by than many other places in Westeros. Is there any such place you know of within the seven kingdoms? In the text we are told numerous stories about Ashara. Some stories even claim she never jumped off a cliff, others say she had no baby at all. The stillborn is what Barristan heard, and it makes perfect sense. He was a member of the kingsguard, and the story about one of the royal family's lady-in-waiting would reach his ear. Ashara could not hide that she was pregnant, but when it came time to switch her child with Elia's, the story need say that Ashara had her baby be stillborn. Otherwise people would ask what happened to the child. And not a random guess, it is meant to tell us about the character we are introduced to. Ashara does, and so does the Waif. It is why the Waif has posioned herself in punishment, and Ashara blames herself for starting the war. It is a well known interpretation, I am surprised you have not heard. But rest assured, she would not look to Selmy as a threat, only that her attention would be focused elsewhere. No, it is known. Read the Waif's backstory, notice the narration shifts from time to time. It is about the tourney at Harrenhall, and what happens afterwards. Others describe her that way as well. Her beauty was not traditionally so like Catelyn or Cersei, nor was she wild like Lyanna. Instead she had pale skin, haunting eyes, and an ethereal figure. Actually, other fans describe her this way as well. Sigh They do not see Ilyrio as being in charge, nor do they think to report back to him. Both him and Varys are in over their heads. Tsk tsk tsk. If the clothing does not fit young griff, why would he send them at all? He could keep them safe in his manse, or he would send them over because he would think they have sentimental value to those they are being handed over to. But lemore and YG do not pay them any mind, in fact not even a mention of these clothing belonging to Young Griff are made. So we return to the manse, Ilyrio barely knew his own son, but there was another who lived longer in his manse, the pisswater prince. There was a baby swap, but young griff is too young, he was born later. Who know a character who chews ginger, and would recognize his own cloths. And George is very clever, he must have enjoyed writing this obscure line in ACOK. The line where Dany compares Ilyrio's manse to a SWINEHERD HOVEL. It was Aegon's home the longest, and most of his things are still there, not YG (who had been gone for many many years at this point). That is pure brilliance, but sadly it went over many people's head. I am presenting it to you so you can better appreciate his clever writing. I give GRRM props for adding that line. Even if not, she plays the role of foster mother as a Septa. "“Clothing as well,” Haldon broke in. “Court clothes, for all our party. Fine woolens, velvets, silken cloaks. One does not come before a queen looking shabby … nor emptyhanded. The magister has been kind enough to provide us with suitable gifts.” I think there will be at least three. The scene only mentions two because that is how many Arya will face at this given moment in time. The fire in the Gods Eye representing fire by dragons? Isn't this clear and obvious? If you disagree, please tell me why. Have I not proven this beyond a reasonable doubt? A massive white lizard that hisses, soon before a fire with red wings, black smoke, and the roar of a beast. Nothing could be more clear, in fact just as Arya attempts to tame the massive white lizard, Quentyn attempts to tame Viserion. What about these words are not clear. Massive white lizard is taken straight from the text, it is clear and obvious. What do you not see here? Just like lightbringer is taken from paradise lost, as is the red hand and seven folded rage, classic fairy tales are utilized in fiction. In the case above, the comparison between the Swineherd prince (pig boy, nightingale, and rose) is clear and obvious. What do you not see? At the moment in time, being chained up by the gods eye, he produces an image of a massive white lizard hissing at Arya. She tries to get him to stand down, as Quentyn does with Viserion. What is not clear and obvious about this? It is right there in the text. Maggy could have said your Valonqar. She didn't, which is the point. "for you" Those line signify the Children are part of Cersei's possession, they are her children. However Valonqar is never said to be her brother. It is for us to solve, which is exactly why you called it cryptic. Why else would GRRM write it this way? I find it difficult to believe you don't think a prophecy in a book series is meant to be analyzed for clues. This is exactly what George wants, yet you have twisted yourself into a pickle by arguing that any evidence to what it could mean should be disregarded. For you it would be since you said Aegon is no longer little. Regardless he, like the old king, is remembered as the little brother because he 'died' so young. Jaime is rarely if ever referenced to as the younger brother. Robert enjoyed the role of being king, just not the responsibilities. Cersei in the fourth book is shown to be much like him, only she thinks she is like Tywin which makes her more delusional. She drinks, gains weight, attempts to sleep with many paramours, and most importantly she day dreams about the man she never had (Rhaegar) like Robert does with Lyanna. These our parallels for us (the readers) to discover. Aegon did not plan on Robert being killed by a boar, but he wishes to take revenge on the usurpers. This is what the red hand is, or the bloody hand as referenced in the play. Cersei thinks Tyrion is the Valonqar, and she thinks he has the bloody hands. That he killed her son and father. But he did neither. Joffrey and Tywin were both poisoned, and the Valonqar is working to meet her demise. Notice both Olenna and Oberyn were the poisoners, and they too were working with someone. Doran, the man Oberyn was working closely with, did not want Tywin. Instead he wanted to take everything from Tywin, and he showed bitter disappointment when he heard the dwarf had killed his father. Oberyn had other predilections, for he was working with someone else, who convinced him now was the time to strike. As for Olenna, GRRM tells us himself: "In the books — and I make no promises, because I have two more books to write, and I may have more surprises to reveal — the conclusion that the careful reader draws is that Joffrey was killed by the Queen of Thorns, using poison from Sansa’s hair net, so that if anyone actually did think it was poison, then Sansa would be blamed for it. Sansa had certainly good reason for it." https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-news/george-r-r-martin-on-who-killed-joffrey-246332/ Both were working with the Valonqar, unbeknownst to the other, and were given the posions that killed Joffrey and Tywin. The Valonqar as we know is in the citadel, so he could not have done it himself. Though this explains how "everything" is taken from Cersei, otherwise the prophecy would not work. Sigh He is the little brother to Rhaenys, that is how he is remembered. YG would not need to hire an assassin, for he will be dead. Aegon is the red hand, he has promises to keep. Just as he is in the citadel on his own accord, he will kill Cersei on his own accord. The version of someone who is "younger and more beautiful" is there child. Just as Sansa is a younger and more beautiful version of Catelyn. Otherwise beauty would be subjective. Oh please, you know that when referencing the president, that is a specific person. A president could or could not be that president. Back to the square and rectangle. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.
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