butterweedstrover

I am listening to the stuff you say, and I believe you mean it. We can debate why things changed, I have certain beliefs as to why. But we cannot deny what is happening. And yet you make that argument anyways. I was not the one who said "Ukraine existed before Russia." Yet western liberals are saying it BECAUSE the Ukrainian government is using that language. And the Ukrainian government wants all Russians (Ukrainians who identify as Russians) cleansed from their "internationally recognized" borders. The culture and language, that is the first step, then people get to 'voluntarily' choose to be followers of Ukrainian Nationalism. And for some reason, people like you and this Atkins fellow believe by escalating this war you are defending democracy and stopping genocide. You don't see how you are no different. You believe you are immune to propaganda, that you are immune to historical revisionism, that your side is good and its military aims should therefore be pursued to the most extreme extent. And any dissenters as to that point are defending genocide. I am saying you (the general you) are the ones caught up in historical lies, spiritual beliefs, and the desire for total conquest.

This is all we need to know. That all the context, political aims, or even reality can be ignored. Russia is bad, and Russia must be destroyed. It doesn't matter how we do it, the war of justice must go on. And to think you're not a victim of propaganda.

Prigozhin is a proud Jew. He didn't appreciate the Nazis slaughtering his ancestors. Whatever the reason, Nazism is outlawed in Russia but not Ukraine. We know what it's based on, we know who said it originally, and we know it's a hysterical lie. So why are we using such language? Who is saying? What is their motive? Fascism is what it is. You dehumanize Russia in steps. First its the mobilized boys, then its the culture, then the religion, then all Ukrainians (Rus) who identify as Russian who need to cleansed from the "internationally recognized borders."

You guys know what you're doing, take it up with your priest. If internationally recognized borders was your concern, Kosovo and Taiwan wouldn't be an issue. You want this war to spread to Donetsk city and Sevestapol. You want to dismantle the Russian government and have their officials put on trial. You want the war to escalate and for the black sea to be under the complete control of NATO. And you want all this under the guise of feeding genocidal rhetoric about Ukraine being the Original Rus and Russians being pretenders. That is the language of Bandera, so why is it shared in the west. Why use the language of orcs, and cultural dehumanization if you don't condone the goal of Kiev, which is to cleanse their country of Russians (Ukrainians who identify as Russian).

Prigozhin is a Jew and Nazism is outlawed in Russia. Anyone who does that in Russia is a criminal. Nazism is a sign for people who want to destroy Russia, it has no place within the Russian government. Bandera and Ukraine are different. Bandera has a distinct place in the Ukrainian government. Where does an American (or Canadian or Scot or Irishman, or Frenchman, etc.) learn the phrase: “Ukraine existed long before Russia.” That is verbatim the language of Banderaites who want to cleanse Ukraine of any ‘mongol’ (Russian) influence. Their language, their religion, their supporters, etc. If Bandera was such a fringe figure for only a few hard right militias, why does such rhetoric permeate among its liberal supporters in the west? Why would a western liberal with no cultural or familial ties to Ukraine utter such a statement as “Ukraine existed before Russia was even a word”. That sentence is based on a belief in racial supremacy. And its ideology wants actual genocide, not just of the Russian language, but the Russian people. Who is saying this stuff then? Azov? or the political establishment in Kiev which people here think are heroes of democracy? What does “Ukraine existed before Russia” have to do with supporting democracy? What about democratic ideals come from calling Russians ‘orcs’ and their civilization a lie. Does that come from people interested in promoting an inclusive liberal democracy? Or from people who want to cleanse their territory of the ‘lesser’ people. Not just the church and the language (which they are already doing) but Ukrainians who identify as Russians. Where do you think this genocidal rhetoric leads? Because we already saw the execution and torture of ‘collaborators’ in Mariupol (2015) and Kherson (2022). Do you think these people want peace? So while you send arms to the conflict where poor underfed conscripts are thrown into the frontlines and mass death ensues, how are you fighting genocide? How are you defending democracy? People like this Atkins guy (never heard of him) talk about fueling this war as if it were done for sake of peace and justice. Rather than negotiate a settlement, they want the fighting to spread to Sevastopol and Donetsk city. What do you think happens there? Do the people get to voluntarily choose to become patriotic Ukrainian nationalists? how do you see this ending? I find it ironic people who want this war to end without the complete destruction of Russian forces, without the promotion of ethnic cleaning, without the disassembly of the government in Moscow, without complete western military control of the Black Sea, they are the ones accused of being pro-genocide. I won’t do the same to you, but it’s ironic that people on your side think only Russians are dumb enough to fall for propaganda. You on the other hand are not susceptible to such things, yet this entire thread is made up of people who unanimously support the most extreme conclusion to this war. It’s almost as if propaganda is a two way street, and you are being fed the same thing as the Russians.

No, I never claimed they are ethnically superior. Just that the UN claiming they rape babies and having people here say such crimes go on sanctioned (for all intent and purpose) by the Russian high command tells me people here aren't thinking critically about this stuff. Because they need to believe Russians are subhuman orcs who deserve to die in order to make genocidal rhetoric about how Ukraine is the original Russia and that Ukrainian nationalists are 'heroes' looking to ethnically cleanse the borders of their 'country' of Russian people (Ukrainians who are part of the Russian world) equates somehow to 'democracy'. And all the mass killing in this war for justice, all to win an argument online.

I know, the people sitting from their homes and telling innocent Ukrainians to go die against Russian defensive lines so that they can get an upper hand in a geopolitical debate while engaging in fascist historical revisionism about how Russians are sub humans who aren't even real slavs makes my blood boil. All the while arming Nazis who torture dissidents and destroy any semblance of democracy left in Ukraine. Oh wait, your not talking about them, are you? Genocide, the only ones talking about genocide are the people trying to maximize the death count while hoping the belief in racial supremacy among Ukrainian nationalists will be enough to fuel the complete collapse of a thousand year old civilization. Where does a westerner come up with the phrasing: "Ukraine was a word long before Russia." That sentence is the most lunacy filled rhetoric based on a belief in racial supremacy from some of the most radical groups on earth who slaughtered Poles and Jews all in the name of 'Ukraine'. So how does such fake history enter the vocabulary of a westerner? Maybe because their 'heroes' in the Ukrainian government also believe in fascism, and Bandera is not just a relic of some few hard right militias but the entire government that wants to cleanse the country of anyone but the most ardent believers in Ukrainian nationalism. Ethnic cleansing, yeah that is genocide. And that is what you support.

You and everyone else made the claim the Russian army is raping babies AND that they were free from repercussion in doing so. Without even a shred of evidence.

So you just run with it then: Russian soldiers rape babies. I didn’t know the babies could survive and tell that tale, let alone speak. Yeah, in Belgorod (inside Russia) some soldiers stationed there raped three innocent girls and were arrested. The story I’m being told is that Russian troops can freely rape BABIES! without repercussion and this is so wide-spread there are multiple instances. And all because Ukrainian authorities (massive liars about everything) say the found corpses and you decide to believe it. Also, 14-17 year olds aren’t babies. And those men weren’t the brave ones serving in the front, they were criminals who were promptly arrested.

Where is the UN panel’s proof? Do they have footage, eye witnesses testimony? Who were these witnesses? So many lies and fabrications about this war come from the Ukrainian side: the bombing of Poland, the drone strike on the Kremlin, the torture of ‘calibrators’ in Kherson, the murder of Children in Donetsk, human shields in Mariupol, fascist militias in Kharkov, the Ghost of Kiev. The government lies about everything, so what do we have beyond their word? Russians. Do. Not. Rape. Children.

Russians killed those guys, get real. And no, you have zero proof of raped babies. He’s useful to the FSB, but one day they need to drop him.

Girkin is mad because he wants to be the 'patriotic' hero who saves Russia (as history goes) but he has been usurped by more viable candidates. His Jealousy right now is directed towards Prigohzin who he wants executed. He wants to be the hero of this story, but he is just a fraud.

Our Russian boys thanking ZelensKKy And people say these kids are raping babies and harvesting souls.

More so I ask in the short term (not the future of society) what is the fundamental aspect of happiness. Don’t tell me what makes you happy, tell me what is the meaning of happiness and what is the ingredient for it to come out of the oven. Political discussion is meaningless before answering this question because politics is a question of how to achieve something. Not what to achieve.

I meant to quote @SeanF Sorry brother.

I’m talking about the current offensive.

It’s meant as a slur to signify Ukraine as the ‘pure’ Slav and Russian as the lesser race. Hence the ‘kill Russian’ propaganda from the militias that have infected the western media. The supporters now call Russians orcs and joke about a tourist getting eaten by sharks.

Yeah I know, take it up with the Banderites you call ‘liberators’ Maybe the reason people hate me posting is that it makes them deal with their own contradictions. Like calling Ukraine purer than Russia.

Literature, figure skating, bobsledding, bear taming, vodka, and architecture.

What was the state Ukraine claims its heritage from again? Oh yeah: Kievan RUS Wagner is by and large a force for good Yes, and they didn’t invent orchestra either. They perfected it. Brazil didn’t invent football btw. But it is there history.

The greatest ballet school is in Saint Petersburg. Yes Russia does not rank well anymore, but that is because you ban them from competing. Even this American reproduction seems like a last hurrah as everything Russian that can’t be rebranded as Ukrainian is going the wayside of “supporting genocide”. My close Russian friend, a wealthy woman, has an entire family of Ballet dancers. This is not a fancy, it is a way of life. So you see, Zorral was engaged in Ukrainian nationalistic revisionism. That Ukraine is the original Slavic state and Russia is a mongol pretender. They may not know it, but they play into Banderite propaganda that is at the forefront of the government in Kiev. Now hush, the show begins.

Excuse me, I’m sitting at the balcony in the Met Opera for a performance of swan lake by the American Ballet Theater. As I ready to enjoy the culture you seem to want banned and ultimately destroyed, might I remind you Russia was a term created by Catherine the Great. To make RUS sound more European. Rus became Russia. It means Rus. Ukraine is the borderlands of Rus. Now tell me Ukraine came before Rus.

Only in the sense that the idea of someone being anti-war is a joke. Now if you want to live up to that title now would be the time. Show some principles.

They are seeing as the end goal of the west is the destruction of the Russian state. If they let NATO have its way in Ukraine by militarily seizing the Black Sea fleet, sending banderites to march on Donetsk were all ‘collaborators’ (everyone) are executed, arresting the entire Russian establishment, demilitarizing the state, and having western back NGO construct a new government (like in Kiev 2014) then you will wish this mafia was back remember. Without geopolitical independence, a liberal democracy has no use of these territories holding under one city, Moscow will turn into a backwater, and Russia will be gone. Russia is not owned by China anymore than China was owned by Russia back in 1949. During the Soviet era China was the junior partner but they never bowed to Moscow. The same is true today only vice versa. Why? Because a Russian empire has geopolitical interests outside of what China wants. It needs influence in the caucuses and the orthodox world to maintain Moscow’s predominance. China and Russia share an enemy, that is all. But what about in your dream, where Russia collapses. You want a liberal democracy that joins NATO and shares the same security interests as the ‘collective west’. In that world the territory of Rus might as well become a bunch of small NATO members rather than one big one since it’s size is no longer required to compete with the west. Unless they were Ukrainian nationalists or Bolsheviks, I doubt they would. A corrupt regime created by western reformists. The way to kick out the mafia is not to give power to those who created them, but to look into Russia’s past for a true patriot. Liberal democracy and Russia do not mix. But that doesn’t mean the alternative has to be corruption. There is a third way. They did this in the 90s under western supervision. A western dominated Russia will not care if Moscow is poor, and that is what losing this war will lead to. I’m not saying we should rally behind Putin, this war has already ended. During the collapse of the Ottomans the Turkish people didn’t look to the allied occupying forces (NATO) or the Greek invaders (Ukraine) but towards their own military/political brass to replace both the corrupt internal Ottoman system and the external foreign threat. Well, part of that comes with standing up to a larger power. But somehow these drunks always find a way to get up again.

Same with you and everyone else.