butterweedstrover

GDP is overrated. Russia is a resource rich country that can sustain itself, assuming it doesn’t break up. But the biggest difference is that it offers an IDEOLOGY against the west. It is a Christian nation that offers an alternative to the western tradition of assimilation. It is the other half of Rome. China, India, etc. are all inward looking and have no expansionist ideology like the west except for doing what is good for Hindus and the Han race. Russia isn’t concerned with ethnic Russians, it is concerned with building an empire. If they lose, it is over. As the west has repeatedly said allowed. They want to militarily conquer Crimea, home to the Russian fleet for hundreds of years, bankrupt the economy, demilitarize the state, and prosecute officials. There is no alternative of Russia which is a compliant liberal client state. Once it’s geopolitical independence there is nothing holding these territories together. And Moscow which is a landlocked metropolis will become an irrelevant backwater, not a prosperous micro-state. We lose Russian culture and the west, with competition holding it back, will show the true tyranny of absolute power in a world we’re no one can say no to them.

The west promises more than it can deliver. In this case Russia promises them more economically. Eastern Europe had a growing population under Russian subsidies and now are being looted of people by the west looking for cheap labor. The ‘miracles’ of Poland and Estonia just led to brain drain and rising suicide. If Russia is fucked demographically, then Ukraine is super fucked.

May God grant Russia a swift victory and allow peace to once more reign in the land of Ukraine. There is no systemic targeting of civilians or rape, but of course in wars civilians die all the time. Least we forget that Ukraine has a government which kidnaps civilians and throws them into the front under armed. And the nationalist militias too target their own people, but that isn’t discussed as much. Now, the west has shown repeatedly that they will undermine any attempts at negotiation under the auspice of justice but let us pray ‘justice’ is not an excuse to bring down the motherland like which has been planned by these ‘liberal democracies’ (a term for which I have only scorn). Ukrainians and Russians are brothers and sisters and that will remain way beyond mere politics.

You should ask him why he allows those policies to erase the Russian language from Donbas. Actual it’s not his fault. He tried to enforce the ceasefire, but the nazis ignored him.

It's true I love Russians, like I really love them. But I love Americans (not westerners in general, I don't have any love for the 'collective' west) and want us all to be friends. My point is, regardless of how this war turns out, it's important that we on the internet don't hate each other. I might not be 100% American, but I consider it my home in more ways than one.

Not in Dnipro, but that I think was a long range missile meant for elsewhere. You can read about the military targets on Telegram or anywhere, but of course Ukraine will use any tragedy, even if caused by their own air defense to garner more support, they need it since they are not fighting this war independently. No, it was about regime change, but once Putin figured out the people he was bribing and been bribed even more, he looked for a quick way out. A guarantee of no NATO membership etc. Per the former Israeli PM they agreed (this was when Zelensky was scared) but Western intervention with the promise of more support scuttled the agreement.

You’re the one who has to prove it’s systemic. Most Russian boys are good kids. But of course in war death and rape happen. People have mental break downs and bad people slip through the cracks. Anyways, their goal is to win over the population, not rape them. In the case of Germany, Soviet command WANTED a high death count of German people.

Well they’re not in Ukraine to blow up apartment buildings filled with innocent civilians. That’s counter to their goal of avoiding civilian deaths. Infrastructure is different but that’s also a military goal.

Karaddin, how many people on this thread are there? 50, 20? The lot of us aren’t going to change the outcome of this war. Nothing we think matters, the powers to be will decide, we are just spectators. Actually I’m pretty liberal, in fact I think I am a liberal. But one thing with liberals is their desire to make political change, they believe discussions and arguments are only useful if they can (eventually) lead to changes in policy. I have no such hope, I just like talking about this stuff, I have no practical aims to convince this form I am right or wrong. Actually that gets at the heart of how Slavs and westerners see things differently. Liberals in the west look at problems and try to change the situation, and they think their opponents do the same. But I don’t care to achieve a change in policy, especially when I accept there is no control. The only thing we can do is find meaning in a lack of control and not tie our happiness to the possibilities of changing that outcome. Both the Russian and European perspective of making change and finding meaning through uncontrolled outcomes is worth understanding. As for how I am a liberal or why, I think in the end the focus on individualism brought about by liberals (versus conservatives who focus on people’s role in society) has benefited my mental fortitude. I only bring up liberals to say stuff happening in the west is turning Russian liberals away from the west. Russian liberals who want their country to emulate Europe exist since before Catherine. In the 90s especially they loved the ideas of free speech and political liberties. But, as I speak to them (or those I know) they are turned off by what they perceive to be the gender swaps, drag shows with children, riots against small businesses, etc. as proof the western way will lead to destruction. Not saying I agree, but they go off what they see on TV. And also some living in NY think the same.

Russian naval base and military was always in Crimea. The peninsula was made bark of the Ukraine SSR for logistic reasons. Now if you want to make the military aim of a violent seizure and destruction of the Black Sea fleet (and ethnic cleansing that will follow) international recognition isn’t enough because in that case you (the west) would support Kosovo being conquered by the Serbs and Taiwan by the CCP. God willing, but that is western political aims right now. Especially with the destruction of the Black Sea fleet. Or, don’t trust western partners who lie about the Minsk agreement, arm far right organizations to ethnically cleanse territory, intervene in an effort to establish Ukraine neutrality, and poor arms into an enemy with the goal of destroying your country.

The thing is Russia exists to struggle against the west. For it to stop and become a member of NATO will be its end. As for its role during peace time, it competes with western imperialism and helps balance the world order. Slaughter is happening also because Ukraine kidnaps civilians from Odessa and throws them into the front with little ammo. The west scuttled the peace deal with Ukraine-Russia to keep the war going, just like they faked the Minsk agreement. Ironically, the Banderites you’re using to start a war with Russia over fake nationalism hate gays and racial intermixing. Russia is big on intermixing, lots of Rus have Turk or mongol blood from the east, check out the Russian defense ministry. In the end, just like how radical islamists were used to fight communism, the west will turn on the Banderites. It’s not doomed to be miserable, it’s about finding meaning through hardship. As for corruption, it can still be fought, Stalin did it.

It was from months before, meaning it didn’t affect her performance. The worlds best ballet school is in Saint Petersburg. I’m going to a performance at the Met Opera on Monday, anyways you can appreciate the musical depth. Frankly I think tchaikovsky puts Mozart to shame. The war is being fought right now with the end of Russia in mind. The demilitarization, prosecution of political elite, and seizure of Crimea will be the end of Russia as an independent military/political power which will also mean the end of Russia as a state. Russia, like the US, isn’t an ethnic state, it’s an idea.

The only use for fear is systemic attacks. A misfire here or there doesn’t instill fear, but anger. Anyways, all these missiles had specific targets that I know of, and Ukraine has made a habit of putting training centers and arm factories in densely packed areas similar to Hamas. Though I don’t blame them for trying since their entire military operation is based on third party support. Civilian casualties look good for them. End of Nazis wasn’t the end of Germany (an ethnic state). This, if the west has its way, will be the end of Russia forever. So I want the west to fail in this regard. I mean yeah, but it’s too late now. The war started, there is no going back to the way things are.

Given the war against Russian culture in the west, or the attempts to brand it as Ukrainian, I'd like to remind everyone that some of the best figure skaters are from Russia. I know they are banned from the ranking now so their numbers aren't great, but here is Kamila Valieva from the last winter olympics. Just stunning, and only 15: Also, if that doesn't do it for you, here is a rendition of Swan Lake, Listen to it and tell me with a straight fact how unredeemable or terrible Russia is.

The thing is you’d have to be believe that those missiles had no other target in the first place (or that the damage wasn’t caused by Ukrainian air defense which either fails entirely who damages the rocket without fully destroying). I also remember the great defense system the Ukrainians had which killed two Polish farmers.

Well first we have to agree that imperialism exists. I would love a world with no imperialism, but that isn’t going to happen. Many people also think because Western influence can (not always) be materially beneficial to its clients that it must not be imperialism. But in most cases, imperialist will use tactics both good and bad to exert control. The Romans developed waterways for Gaul and the British built railways for India but neither did it out of goodness, but to exert better control. The Soviets, in order to keep the Warsaw pact afloat, heavily subsidized a bunch of less productive economies (check out Eastern European populations after 89). Not out of the goodness of their hearts, but to maintain control. Imperialism is a game of the stick AND the carrot. Corporations think the same way in regards to their customer base. I don’t care for material benefits as much as I value freedom, but that is a pipe dream. However look at Armenia. The reason it was able to be independent for so long is because Persia and Rome were fighting and they could play off one side against the other. A counterbalance gives third countries options and allows for a degree of pseudo-freedom in a world dominated by great powers. I also love Russia so there is also that, but I’d never want them to rule the world. Actually, anti-Khrushchev outlook. It was convenient for the Politburo to pin all the blame on the famine, etc. on Stalin but they knew what was happening and let it. Stalin who was politically independent from them, the guy they decided to throw under the bus. Point is Khrushchev wasn’t the moderate hero westerners make him out to be. And Stalin wasn’t this blanket evil force. A lot of his paranoia was justified and his goal to industrialize the USSR wasn’t a selfish goal done for his own monetary benefits (unlike Putin and his goons who raid the state coffers for their mansions in Italy).

Well firstly Russian soldiers aren’t animals, they don’t rape and kill randomly. They are innocent boys who think they are serving their country. Even the prisoners who fought for Wagner, those treated well, had a high rehabilitation rate. The MOD mistreated them, but Prigozhin honored the contracts. Now in war rape/killings happen, but you have to believe it’s systemic or part of a political order from Moscow in order to claim Bucha was evidence of a Russian plot to kill civilians. If Russia was fighting this war to exterminate the population, things would look very different.

Well first you seemed to claim Bucha and Holdomor were Russian plans to exterminate the civilian population. If you no longer stand by that then we have to deal with the fact that Ukraine was expanded by the Soviets, and much of these lands were forcibly Ukrainianized. What interest did Russian imperialists have in promoting a regional dialect? Well the Ukraine means borderlands (of Rus), they are the edge of the Rus people, and hence they have been attacked more, by Poles, Hungarians, etc. This can give the rise to nationalism and a unique sub-identity, which is useful but also dangerous. On one hand it can help strengthen control of a region prone to raids, but it can also give rise to the extermination of the Russian language and people. Hence Bandera. That’s the reason they look to Bandera, they have no national hero unconnected to Russia, or Rus. The new government also tried to erase Russian language and culture, but you can only achieve so much when your culture is tied to another, you just end up destroying yourself. Now Russia has to separate Ukraine nationalism with Ukraine as a regional identity, so they try to pin that on the government, not the people, and the nationalist paramilitaries. The territory in the east, which is already heavily Russian, is trying to have the far right nationalist tendencies removed. But here is the thing, those Banderites, Azov, etc. we’re from RUSSIANS, not UKRAINIANS. It was Russians who moved to Ukraine who wanted to promote fascist ideas against the government in Moscow thinking Ukraine is a better center for the Rus world. Where is the right sector based mostly? Not Lvov but Kharkov. Azov wasn’t from the west, they were from Mariupol, in Donbas. The UPA figures were the ones who flooded the east (not western Ukraine) trying to exterminate Russian influence (since that land was never historically part of Ukraine). So any effort to undo that is to remove the affects of this ideology by promoting patriotism to Russia in places taught to hate them. Now I agree killing civilians is hurting their objective, but they have to balance that with a need to win the war militarily. However they’ve sacrificed a lot of military mobility in order to avoid civilian casualties (by Russian standards).

That’s a long history, if you want to learn what changed, or why the capital was not Kiev. The prince of Rus who founded Moscow eventually went onto to dominate other Rus states, but Moscow was further from the front lines were orthodox Christians were being attacked by Catholics, it was a safer place to build a capital that wouldn’t be sacked all the time.

Kievan Rus is is as much Belarus and Russia as it is Ukraine. But since your asking, Moscow has had political control since the 15th century and yet for some reason imperial Russia never once exterminated the population. Which, once you realize Russians and Ukrainians are both Rus it makes more sense. They are all the same ethnicity so why exterminate each other? As for language, there is a lot of ways to kill a language, and yet 500 years later millions still speak it, in fact the soviets forcibly increased Ukrainian land and language. For some reason you believe the goal of Russian imperialism is to destroy Ukraine, but I guess we have to believe things in order to dissuade anyone from negotiating and demanding the most extreme military aims. It’s surprising how far right most liberals have become in this regard.

Read the Minsk agreement, the goal was to reintegrate Donbas into Ukraine. Russian imperialism after the USSR was to borrow from the western playbook of no direct control but through control of institutions, diplomatic leverage, and economic entanglement. At least according to Putin, the USSR went bankrupt trying to spend money to prop up outside territory. The French method in west Africa is a more cost affective way. Now they have a bunch of land filled with pensioners and burnt cities they have to pay off, not exactly part of their master plan. It isn’t going their way, but they need to take something now that they failed to change the regime so they can a. Crest a buffer zone and b. Complicate any attempts to get Ukraine approved into NATO.

Delusional, a poorly planned retreat was explicitly planned to randomly kill innocent civilians to help in a project fear. Again, we’re did this order come from? I never said that, but you have to claim it in order to make your ridiculous claim that it was an organized execution approved by Moscow seem less insane. Lol, there is a mother load of evidence to prove the Nazis planned to kill the Jews. There is zero evidence that the Soviets while dealing with a famine across the entire country redistributed food from Ukraine with the goal of eliminating their population. What we do know is Stalin was shocked by the numbers, no evidence of Hitler being shocked by the Holocaust.

Yeah, we are living in looney land if the argument is Moscow approved of some random shootings during a retreat so they could exterminate (or instill fear) into the population. Covering it up so that the RAF doesn’t look bad isn’t the same thing, but again none of this is serious, even from someone like Cadarn who believes there was a secret command passed down to them.

500 years and Ukraine is a provincial language. The territories Russia is fighting in were the ones that were forcibly Ukranianized.

Hey, do you know what Bucha was, the event that happened AS the Russians were retreating. Or you keep believing this was an order from high up. cool, provide some internal Soviet documents that prove this. What we do know is Stalin wasn’t expecting the death toll. It was a famine, not just in Ukraine but across multiple territories. Many with far less agricultural output. The problem is with making theories based on assumptions, something with no evidence in a Soviet Union that forcibly expanded Ukrainian territory and language.