Ran

Best episode of the season so far. Gave it an 8, which I may decide to revise up to 9 later. Why not a 9 right off? Well, the Greyjoy business was not well-executed (the Reek-specific stuff, yes, but the stuff around it, no), in shades of the Craster's Keep matter. Plus Emilia Clarke's vacillating performance is indeed started to bug me. The trial was exceptional though.

Share your thoughts!

Book spoiler discussion of the show goes here, for those who want to discuss the episode in relation to the books, and with reference to spoilers from them. This topic should open automatically around the start of airing.

Non-spoiler discussion of the show goes here, for those who've not read the books or those who have but are happy to not actually reference them at all in discussion, taking each episode as it comes. This topic should open automatically when the show begins airing.

532 votes, 7.40 average, 8 median, 7.49 normalized average.

Someone with more mathematical accumen than I is welcome to take the raw data and provide some other ways of normalizing it. I suppose one approach might be to normalize using standard deviation -- people voting 10 are closer to the means of 7-8 we see compared to people voting 1-2, and so perhaps a flat 5% +/- isn't reasonable. But... yeah, more maths required than what I am willing or able to do.

Am I talking to the breeze? Noted that people had other issues that weren't tied primarily, or even at all, with the divergences.

I was talking about "Oathkeeper". I think anyone who came out of "First of His Name" thinking that any genuine purpose was served by the Craster's storyline beyond marking time is fooling themselves. It's a genuine closed circle. Nothing has changed.

Konradsmith, Most critics I've read called the Craster's storyline "filler" or something of that ilk. They weren't particularly keen on it. Both AV Club reviewers considered it the worst episode of the season so far, Wired's reviewer was sick of the story line almost immediately, etc. I did a quick review of the reviews out there and I can't see anyone who called it the best of the season or anything like. Critics did respond. They just responded with a shrug about it, because they were either not fully committed to it being filler and so allowed that maybe there'd be a point, or they simply strongly disliked it but they're not going to give the episode a C because of it for whatever reason. Mr. Fixit, I agree on Breaker of Chains. That's what I meant in the initial post. They executed something badly which led to a highly negative interpretation of what went on, and that spilled over to Oathkeeper. Had they executed what they had intended in a way that people understood, BoC would be more highly rated and Oathkeeper would be nearer to where "First of His Name" ended, IMO. But the vote is the vote. Daske, People also marked it up because of the divergence. You can't cherry pick. This forum has a spectrum of views, which is why it's interesting to see them all gathered in one place, and be able to draw conclusions. But I do maintain that for a number of people (i.e. me), the negative of the episode was the shoddiness of the construction of the storyline. They wasted some real opportunities. Sometimes I feel like I'm having this conversation:

People can strongly dislike the Craster's material for the stupid logic and the fact that it's a closed circle that literally just filled time. Others have suggested things they could have done alternatively -- even things to make Jon's trip up there make sense, and then to generate something more for him-- and I suspect they would have been happier with it (I certainly would have been). Hell, some people were probably as annoyed by the fact that Locke -- an invented character taking part in a new storyline! -- was killed off in a way that they felt undercut the potential there was to that new storyline. Amazing! People who "hate hate hate invented material with a passion" who disliked the writers waste the potentials in "invented material"! You're not going to find anyone who feels apologetic for not liking when writers contort logic to make a story line work, or then fritter away anything worthwhile from it to reduce it to a (fairly unexciting) action beat. If you want to reduce that to "not liking new story lines", feel free, but I think those who rate it as they did know why, precisely, they did so.

No one started one for this episode.

Figured I'd share all the past votes for episodes, updated to today, with folks who are interested in a history of polling on the forum: Season 1 Episode 1: 8.40 (of 269 votes) | ((1*0)+(2*0)+(3*0)+(4*1)+(5*4)+(6*15)+(7*38)+(8*60)+(9*68)+(10*43))/269 Episode 2: 8.19 (of 284 votes) | ((1*0)+(2*0)+(3*0)+(4*2)+(5*3)+(6*18)+(7*40)+(8*104)+(9*86)+(10*31))/284 Episode 3: 7.87 (of 235 votes) | ((1*1)+(2*0)+(3*1)+(4*6)+(5*4)+(6*15)+(7*52)+(8*76)+(9*61)+(10*19))/235 Episode 4: 8.00 (of 291 votes) | ((1*1)+(2*2)+(3*6)+(4*3)+(5*9)+(6*25)+(7*39)+(8*69)+(9*96)+(10*41))/291 Episode 5: 8.65 (of 274 votes) | ((1*0)+(2*2)+(3*4)+(4*3)+(5*1)+(6*6)+(7*25)+(8*50)+(9*105)+(10*78))/274 Episode 6: 8.81 (of 244 votes) | ((1*0)+(2*0)+(3*3)+(4*3)+(5*2)+(6*6)+(7*14)+(8*37)+(9*102)+(10*77))/244 Episode 7: 8.15 (of 241 votes) | ((1*1)+(2*1)+(3*1)+(4*7)+(5*7)+(6*14)+(7*34)+(8*59)+(9*69)+(10*48))/241 Episode 8: 9.03 (of 280 votes) | ((1*0)+(2*0)+(3*0)+(4*1)+(5*4)+(6*5)+(7*15)+(8*48)+(9*84)+(10*123))/280 Episode 9: 8.84 (of 383 votes) | ((1*2)+(2*4)+(3*2)+(4*4)+(5*11)+(6*13)+(7*20)+(8*47)+(9*96)+(10*184))/383 Episode 10: 9.09 (of 401 votes)| ((1*1)+(2*0)+(3*2)+(4*2)+(5*2)+(6*6)+(7*13)+(8*52)+(9*141)+(10*181))/401 Average to date : 8.50 (8.4+8.19+7.87+8.00+8.65+8.81+8.15+9.03+8.84+9.09)/10 Season 2 Episode 1: 7.58 (of 573 votes) | ((1*2)+(2*0)+(3*8)+(4*7)+(5*30)+(6*43)+(7*147)+(8*198)+(9*92)+(10*44))/573 Episode 2: 7.07 (of 398 votes) | ((1*7)+(2*5)+(3*10)+(4*12)+(5*28)+(6*51)+(7*100)+(8*102)+(9*62)+(10*20))/398 Episode 3: 8.56 (of 438 votes) | ((1*1)+(2*2)+(3*3)+(4*1)+(5*5)+(6*17)+(7*34)+(8*104)+(9*176)+(10*95))/438 Episode 4: 7.73 (of 427 votes) | ((1*5)+(2*3)+(3*10)+(4*8)+(5*19)+(6*34)+(7*69)+(8*122)+(9*102)+(10*55))/427 Episode 5: 8.26 (of 415 votes) | ((1*2)+(2*1)+(3*3)+(4*5)+(5*12)+(6*17)+(7*51)+(8*111)+(9*144)+(10*69))/415 Episode 6: 8.11 (of 441 votes) | ((1*2)+(2*7)+(3*9)+(4*11)+(5*17)+(6*21)+(7*43)+(8*85)+(9*141)+(10*103))/441 Episode 7: 7.87 (of 408 votes) | ((1*5)+(2*8)+(3*9)+(4*7)+(5*14)+(6*23)+(7*53)+(8*108)+(9*118)+(10*63))/408 Episode 8: 7.32 (of 399 votes) | ((1*5)+(2*5)+(3*10)+(4*15)+(5*18)+(6*46)+(7*88)+(8*107)+(9*71)+(10*34))/399 Episode 9: 9.5 (of 738 votes) | ((1*2)+(2*1)+(3*5)+(4*3)+(5*2)+(6*8)+(7*15)+(8*28)+(9*126)+(10*546))/738 Episode 10: 7.63 (of 914 votes)| ((1*18)+(2*14)+(3*23)+(4*32)+(5*47)+(6*72)+(7*112)+(8*196)+(9*236)+(10*159))/914 Average to date: 7.96 |(7.58+7.07+8.56+7.73+8.26+8.11+7.87+7.32+9.5+7.63)/10 Season 3 Episode 1: 7.58 (of 782 votes) | ((1*3)+(2*3)+(3*3)+(4*17)+(5*26)+(6*73)+(7*186)+(8*298)+(9*126)+(10*45))/782 Episode 2: 7.61 (of 657 votes) | ((1*6)+(2*8)+(3*9)+(4*15)+(5*20)+(6*54)+(7*153)+(8*194)+(9*143)+(10*59))/661 Episode 3: 8.40 (of 693 votes) | ((1*5)+(2*1)+(3*4)+(4*6)+(5*17)+(6*11)+(7*72)+(8*182)+(9*282)+(10*113))/693 Episode 4: 9.23 (of 842 votes) | ((1*0)+(2*1)+(3*0)+(4*2)+(5*2)+(6*12)+(7*28)+(8*105)+(9*275)+(10*417))/842 Episode 5: 8.81 (of 684 votes) | ((1*2)+(2*0)+(3*2)+(4*2)+(5*8)+(6*14)+(7*36)+(8*139)+(9*288)+(10*193))/684 Episode 6: 7.31 (of 746 votes) | ((1*7)+(2*11)+(3*9)+(4*22)+(5*42)+(6*87)+(7*183)+(8*225)+(9*103)+(10*57))/746 Episode 7: 7.14 (of 749 votes) | ((1*15)+(2*12)+(3*14)+(4*19)+(5*54)+(6*91)+(7*171)+(8*226)+(9*102)+(10*45))/749 Episode 8: 8.36 (of 735 votes) | ((1*2)+(2*4)+(3*5)+(4*6)+(5*9)+(6*26)+(7*80)+(8*206)+(9*286)+(10*111))/735 Episode 9: 9.24 (of 1270 votes)| ((1*10)+(2*2)+(3*4)+(4*9)+(5*10)+(6*15)+(7*26)+(8*138)+(9*295)+(10*759))/1270 Episode 10: 7.38 (of 1097 votes) | ((1*28)+(2*15)+(3*30)+(4*34)+(5*69)+(6*88)+(7*201)+(8*287)+(9*217)+(10*128))/1097 Average to date: 8.11 | (7.58+7.61+8.4+9.23+8.81+7.31+7.14+8.36+9.24+7.38)/10 Season 4 Episode 1: 8.18 (of 661 votes) ((1*3)+(2*1)+(3*2)+(4*10)+(5*12)+(6*23)+(7*99)+(8*228)+(9*189)+(10*94))/661 Episode 2: 8.41 (of 595 votes) ((1*6)+(2*1)+(3*3)+(4*15)+(5*15)+(6*33)+(7*66)+(8*153)+(9*181)+(10*134))/595 Episode 3: 6.98 (of 597 votes) ((1*13)+(2*10)+(3*14)+(4*28)+(5*55)+(6*72)+(7*137)+(8*141)+(9*83)+(10*44))/597 Episode 4: 7.78 (of 633 votes) ((1*16)+(2*9)+(3*18)+(4*20)+(5*23)+(6*38)+(7*72)+(8*118)+(9*203)+(10*114))/633 Episode 5: 7.40 (of 509 votes) ((1*3)+(2*6)+(3*6)+(4*8)+(5*34)+(6*65)+(7*119)+(8*138)+(9*95)+(10*35))/509 Average to date (mid-season): 7.75 Midpoint average: 7.75 Series average to date (35 episodes): 8.13 (8.4+8.19+7.87+8.00+8.65+8.81+8.15+9.03+8.84+9.09+7.58+7.07+8.56+7.73+8.26+8.11+7.87+7.32+9.5+7.63+7.58+7.61+8.4+9.23+8.81+7.31+7.14+8.36+9.24+7.38+8.18+8.41+6.98+7.78+7.40)/35 ----- A couple of points: S4's first 5 episodes are the lowest rated first half a season to date -- yes, even season 2 comes out better. Similarly, S4 is the first season to score 3 sub-8.0 episodes in a row. Of course, this is all thrown off by the dooziy of a mistake they made with the sept scene, an outrage that certainly had a spill-over effect on to episode 4 when the episode didn't really touch on it. Had the sept scene gone differently, I expect the show would be on track to match season 1.

504 votes in, 7.39 average, 8 median, 7.49 normalized average.

465 votes, 7.4 average, 8 median, 7.49 normalized average.

445 votes in, 7.42 average, 8 median, 7.50 normalized average.

I'll have to check on what the cache time is on the front page. It may be set to cache the page for a very long time.

I think it is a caching issue. As an editor, when you come across a page with this issue try purging the page by adding ?action=purge to the URL and seeing if that will fix it.

386 votes in, 7.46 average, 8 median, 7.54 normalized average.

369 votes, 7.44 average, 8 median, 7.56 normalized average.

291 votes, 7.47 average, 8 median, 7.55 normalized average.

252 votes in, 7.49 average, 8 median, 7.59 normalized average.

217 votes in, 7.54 average, 8 median, 7.60 normalized average.

152 votes, 7.53 average, 8 median, 7.57 normalized average. The average and normalized average are the closest I've ever seen, I think. At least this season. And let me add, there's a major lack of votes under 5. It's not hardcore purists vs. hardcore fans, as we've seen in some others where the distribution is very different. Most people just seem to be a bit cool on it.

The Casterly Rock thing is for the show. No danger of the mines running out in the novels. The reason Tywin doesn't just buy the crown out all its debts in the books is that there _are_ limits to how much wealth he has on hand (he's already a substantial debt holder as it is) and he's not going to cripple the house by tying up all of its wealth with the crown. The reason Cersei doesn't do the same is likely in emulation of that, with the added bonus that she well-and-truly believes that she can tell the Iron Bank to go hang.

108 votes in, 7.53 average, 7 median, 7.57 normalized average. Gave it a 7, myself. The stuff beyond the Wall kind of ended in a whimper, while the King's Landing stuff highlighted how much softer and less compelling I find Cersei on the show. That said, folks, Cersei was not just being nice -- she was working on each of the three judges -- and it says something about the way the show-runners have decided to do things, that Margaery is the obvious stand-in for the judges rather than, you know, Mace Tyrell who's actually THERE and has hardly been used at all despite being played by a distinguished actor; couldn't he have at least been a part of the conversation? -- to subtly, more or less, influence them on Tyrion's trial. Kate Dickie is fantastic, though, and the Arya-Hound stuff was pretty good, I thought. Oh, and whether it's spoilery or not, I thought Thomas Brodie-Sangster's performance as Jojen touched on Bran's destiny and his own fate suitably creepy; well performed, on his part, and well-written by the writers. I do think they missed some opportunities with the Night's Watch attack on Craster's, though, and maybe finished up using Locke too quickly.