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After re-watching on HBO Go: The production crew shot scenes of the shadow transforming from Renly to Stannis, I guess they didn't like how they looked. You see the beginning of that shot, but when the transformation occurs, you only see Catelyn. Shame that didn't work. Jaqen's helmet: He has it with him when he walks past Arya and pretends not to notice her, but it's on the well when she goes to get water. "Not only did I notice you, but I knew where you were going and could get there before you unnoticed." Actions speak louder than words and Jaqen is awesome... Where's Pip? I wonder if the actor didn't make the trip to Iceland. Bronn and Jorah have solidified their spots on the "Perfectly Cast" list for this show. (Arya and Tywin were already there, so they didn't need that scene to prove it) Pyat's blue lipstick left a smudge on his teeth, whoops.

Suspecting Stannis is responsible for Renly's murder, doesn't mean Loras thinks he sent some demon into the tent, or even that Brienne and/or Catelyn are not involved. He knows that Stannis is the one who gained from him dying, that Stannis's mysterious sorceress threatened him just hours before and that someone killed him. It's not unreasonable to assume that Stannis is behind what happened, be it through Catelyn/Brienne, a hired assassin or something else...

On rewatch, one thing I like about this episode is we've clearly added two members to Sansa's, "Thinks she lives in a high fantasy world rather than Westeros" club. Brienne and Jorah. These two (and both very well done, Jorah continues to be a MUCH better character on the show). It's sad watching them flail under the reality which is Westeros. (sad in a way which makes great theater). Stannis: Another Stannis fan. He is far from perfect, but so are all of the potential butts that could sit the Iron Throne. Unless Lord Davos is somehow going to get his butt there, give me Stannis. Maybe Doran Martell too, but he is not too healthy, and I don't like his heirs. At the end of SoS, Stannis has a clear face turn. This is Westeros, so heel and face are not so clearly defined, but that is what SoS is all about. The two major face turns (since her keeps killing the faces off). First Jaime, and then Stannis. Stannis was never quite the heel Jaime was, but he is close in the show.

Good! I will be sweating the ratings until they confirm Season 7 (8?) to end the series. Of course, they will have to pass the books b then unless they want Rickon to be moving with a walker.

The characters age in the books too. Martin is never specific about time passed, because it would not make sense. Better to ignore it than try to explain it and show the readers how sloppy he is in this regard.

They haven't grown because they haven't been eating.

They have already established (twice) that the lords don't respect Davos. He will sense the trap, call the warning. They (including his son) will ignore him and die.

I don't think Tywin will know who he has. He has to leave Harranhal to get to KL during Ep9. After he leaves we will get the Weasel Soup revolution and the Brave Companions being left in charge. This will force Arya to escape despite it being in the hands of :"her people". It wouldn't shock me if they end her season with her being scooped up by Sandor.

Stannis is very honorable, he would have them sent to Winterfell where they will be buried in the crypts... Oops... Well, they will be sent North.

Tywin not lashing out at Arya's stare: How foolish would that make him look? He's already been overbearing and petty, sending away one his officers for a complaint that they aren't getting enough sleep. This is a legit complaint that officers should bring to their general, because if their men aren't sleeping enough it will adversely affect them. But Tywin has to flex his authority muscle, and he decides to do it on this chump. Now he engages a servant (little girl at that) and he is going to smack her down for staring at him? How pathetic would that make him look? He would have to acknowledge that she threatened him. That's part of the brilliance of that scene. He has walked himself into a trap. And Arya (bless her heart) clamps it shut on him. Either he has to ignore her implied threat or he becomes a blustering Jofferey like ruler.

Excellent episode. Renly's death felt a bit flat to me, I will judge it on the reaction of my friends who did not know it was coming. Everything else hit the mark. HARD. Arya staring down Tywin might be my favorite moment of the entire series so far. And they follow it up with her empowerment. Her story is a rough one, but the moment Jaqen gives her the three, she goes from being kicked and shoved through the story to being the kicker and shover. Because she is my favorite character (along with Jaime), this marks one of my favorite moments of the books. The death of the Tickler was well done too. Yes it wasn't who was killed in the books. The Tickler was a fine choice for the show. Beyond the wall looked perfect, glad they ponied up the money for the trip to Iceland. Xaro's party scene worked, as did Jorah's plea to Dany. For the first time, that storyline was interesting this season. (It is the worst part of CoK IMO) Catelyn and Brienne were effective together. They are making Brienne truly a monster physically. Great direction. Stannis was excellent. The best he's been so far. For the first time, he grabbed the scene from Davos, as he should. Bronn was as great as he's been since he met Tywin. He continues to define perfect casting. A rare time you are rooting for him as opposed to Tyrion.

You (as we all are) are free to view the show any way you wish to (of course). However, I think people would enjoy things more if they viewed the show as the show, and determine things based on that only. Change means nothing, what matters is the quality of what you're seeing. It is completely independent of the books, which are written, done and read (for most of us).

I voted 8, though after watching it a couple of more times, I think it was a better episode than I gave it credit for. The torture porn scene was still excessive and the Tyrion/Lancel scene still falls flat (IMO). But I did not give enough credit to the rest of the episode. The Baretheon summit, Tywin to the Rescue, Tyrion to the Rescue and the Shadow Baby scenes were all 10/10 scenes. (I was wrong about Shadow Baby looking cheap on a second viewing)

The show and the books are separate entities, the show is not a bunch pretty pictures made to accompany the books. They don't change the books, but they will likely begin to diverge more and more. There are plenty of fair reasons to complain about the show, but it serves little purpose to get annoyed just because they are different.

I don't think Stannis knew about Renly's death. There is nothing (I can remember) to indicate he did. He may still think Brienne/Catelyn did it. He certainly knew Melisandre assassinated Penrose, likely not how, but considering he knows he's had sex with her (and likely that it takes a lot out of him), he can probably figure out that has something to do with it. In the show, he clearly knows she is going to assassinate Renly. This is a change for his character, but only a shift towards something he already was. He is a hypocrite. He was not acting the part of a king, while insisting he is one. He recognizes this and corrects his course at the end of SoS. We (the book readers) are attributing this dramatic change of heart to a man who is still a year? away from that change. That (and Jaime's face turn) are the two brilliant points which make SoS the best book of the series. More importantly, this "Show us, don't tell us" style of Martin is what makes his work so great. (Which is odd because MAJOR events are told off camera, but major character changes are shown). A Game of Thrones (mainly the killing of Ned) is something that normally would have happened in the prologue chapter in fantasy books, and then the hero is hero for the whole book, being all emo about his dead heroic father. Martin did not give us that, he told the story of the heroic father before giving us the hero of the books. In the same way, we get to see Jaime and Stannis at their low points, which makes their face turns so much more dramatic.

In the show, he (LF) held a knife to Ned's throat in front on a room full of witnesses, she probably doesn't know about LF's deal with Ned, but there is no way everyone in that room remained silent about what happened that day. He agreed to take care of Ned, and instead he attacked him when he got arrested (and was on the stage for his death).

On Dany and her dragons. That scene was a power play. Fatty Spice wanted to make her completely submissive to their will. She didn't want to give up the only power she has (which is the wonder of her dragons, they serve no other purpose right now). If she gives in to him, she is a beggar queen with some cool pets. She has no martial forces (2 bloodriders and an aging knight), she has no money, she has no followers (worth anything). She digs in her heels and refuses and it works. XX sees potential in a queen with dragons, as a trophy wife and perhaps more. He decides she is worth taking a risk on. On the knowledge of Catelyn. She was working around. She made a scene in the middle of a tournament. Every single person (100,000) in Renly's camp knows she is there. If Varys does not have an informer amongst that army, he is the worst spy master in the history of the world. This is a man who knows the movements of a boy and girl on the other continent, is it possible he doesn't know about major player publicly appearing in his enemy's camp a week's ride away? I guess it's possible in a world where the most powerful Lady on the continent (there is no lady Lannister, so Lady Stark clearly gets that title) doesn't know that the heir to the throne was born and died.

Lady Stark was given to Sana as a compliment, not a promotion or mistake. Maybe Tyrion is also thinking that Catelyn will NOT survive, and then the importance of Sansa politically increases. (but likely just an offhand compliment)

It's amusing the quick to attack people suggesting Renly would be unable to have a child. I realize that in our society today, we are quick to take any opportunity to pat ourselves on the back for how unXXXXXXist (race, religion, sexuality, shoe color, dentist, shoe color...) we are. HOWEVER, the show has made it quite clear that this particular gay man DOES have an issue with it. So it is a legitimate talking point.

First Impressions: Fine episode, a couple of issues and moved too fast are my issues with it. The opening KL scene was great. However, the other two scenes there (Jofferey and whores and Tyrion/Lancel) were a mess. Joffery's scene was a complete waste of time just sex and mustache-twirling. Considering how rushed the rest of this episode felt, I have no idea why they gave this scene so long. Tyrion going over Lancel is fairly significant and just simply didn't work. I was watched a scripted scene, where I could (not literally) hear the director moving them along and watch them (again not literally) reading the script. Might be the poorest put together scene I've ever scene on the show. The Stannis/Renly summit was great, almost perfect, though I think Catelyn should have positioned herself more in the middle. She was clearly on Renly's scene (physically), and she should have understood better how her positioning would have affected Stannis. The shdowbaby scene didn't work for me. The lead up was excellent. Both great actors and they really sold it. The birth itself looked like a cheap Syfy scene. if you can't do it right, don't do it on camera. Harrenhal looked great and those scenes worked. I realize more purist heads exploded there, you guys must be an endangered species by now. You were warned this would happen as Charles Dance talked about many scenes with Maise Wiliams, and this is the only way that makes sense. Best parts of this episode, and still weaker than the previous two sets of Arya scenes. Quarth scene was excellent. Exactly what it had to be. I enjoyed Robb's warging scene. However, are we going to believe that he uses Grey Wind to take on sentries (clever), but the noise of that attack (followed by the war horns and battle cries) does not eliminate any advantage this warging gave them? Florence Nightingale was meh. I don't really care who he is going to burn the Frey alliance with, as she will never matter in show beyond that.

It's implied in a few spots. However, people tend to overstate it, especially after Martin confirmed that he had intended people to know it. Most of the "evidence" is people mocking him with implied homosexuality. Because that never happens to straight guys...

Show Renly is definitely softer than book Renly. I can't see how that can even be debated. Physically, he is described as the mirror image of a young Robert, he was a massive warrior.On the show, he is thin and fairly small. The whole fear of blood thing was just weird. The impression I get from the show is that he is unwilling to engage in the fight for the throne. That was certainly not the case in the books. The impression of book Renly was that he was enjoyig the process of going to war too much. When you couple that with the open homosexuality (where Martin was afraid to make it open in the books), you are going to open yourself to criticism for the stereotype. It would be like if The Walking Dead suddenly had T-Dog start making fried chicken and greens for the crew. Maybe he just likes fried chicken and greens (I sure do), but it is a stereotype people are not comfortable with.

They must be using the same Foley guy who makes all their hummers sound like someone drinking from a dog bowl.

Craster can't kill Jon. It is one thing to beat him around a bit and kick them out. Killing a brother would likely mean the end of Craster. His house, his rules, but he has one small axe, and there are 200? armed brothers there. Their allowance of him is because he helps them. (and he profits greatly from this) He knows he would be dead in a second if he really makes a heavy move. (look at what happens later)

To add to what I loved in this episode. Arya sharpening her sword to help relax. Just like dad and her favorite half-brother.