PatrickStormborn

Well obviously other people think differently... For me, the writing is at least 50% of the show. If it wasn't, I'd go and watch terrible expensive action movies full of A-List celebs and have to rate them highly. Yeah, the production values are amazing and improving every season. But I'd argue that in some places they're absolutely beginning to hurt the show. King's Landing, for example, looks just as warm as it has since season 2, despite the fact that winter is coming. Essentially, I feel like the show is sacrificing tone, mood and suspense in favour of pretty scenery.

But the season 5 episodes currently have more ratings than the season 2 polls do anyway... I generally think the difference in ratings is based on increasing disappointment with the show. I was more generous in ratings back in season 2 than I am now, partly because of how great season 1 was and partly because I thought the show was still finding its feet. 5 seasons in and it's impossible to make those same defenses. The Night Lands was an awful episode with very little resemblance to events in ACoK, but at the time it looked like a temporary hiccup in adapting the series; now, obviously, we know that's not the case.

It's her word against Euron's. Considering Euron most likely sexually abused Aeron, I'm inclined to believe her.

I'm really tired of arguing about whether they had to make Missandei older. Yes, there's no way they could let a 10 year old play her, but that didn't mean she had to be an adult. But most importantly, if they had to make her an adult, why not actually make her a vital part of "team Daenerys"? In the books she was vital to Dany's understanding of Slaver's Bay; in the show, she doesn't even know the extent of the Unsullied's castration. You adapt those Dany chapters from Dance by, I don't know... adapting those chapters? Seriously, just go and read them. They're FULL of material to use. Dany's narrative in ADwD is about being trapped in Meereen, with enemies approaching her from all sides, and deciding to submit to them in an attempt to survive. But then she throws away her "floppy ears" in defiance, flies away on Drogon, and comes to the realisation that she needs to abandon Meereen. And yes, I have a very different take on those letters. You say they are "loaded with passion" and I won't disagree, but it's important that it happens AFTER he's already sexually developed and AFTER they have engaged in a sexual relationship. Grey Worm, on the other hand, can't even remember his life before he was cut. And seriously, the whole point of the Unsullied is that they don't have sexual desire... but Grey Worm still stares at Missandei? It's terrible writing and it's a pretty dumb plot hole.

There are 10 Daenerys chapters in ADwD. Quentyn has 2 prior to meeting Daenerys, and 2 after she leaves the city. Barristan has 4 after she leaves the city. And please, aging Missandei up was not "forced by law", nor does it mean she should be sexualised or forced into a romance subplot. Why couldn't the showrunners age her up and make her more active in Dany's councils? In the books she actually advises Dany; in the show, despite being significantly older, she is little more than a handmaid and a herald. I am familiar with the story of Abelard and Heloise. Apart from the obvious (his castration), I fail to see any similarities whatsoever... particularly as his castration takes place after their relationship, not before. Bad writing, poor characterisation (of Missandei), and ultimately it's just boring filler that can never advance the plot. If I wanted to see what a relationship between Missandei and Grey Worm could potentially be like, I have no doubt that I could go and find some far better fanfiction. I found the way they handled Rakharo and Irri to be more interesting, and that wasn't in the books either so let's not try and pretend that this is about book purism.

I agree with the general consensus that, so far, season 4 looks stronger than season 3... But that's definitely with the benefit of hindsight. Episodes 1 and 3 of season 3 were both strong, and episodes 4 and 5 were some of the best received episodes of all time on this board. Season 4 has been more consistent, but none of the episodes reach the heights of And Now His Watch is Ended or Kissed By Fire, IMO. But luckily, even with continued weak deviations to the source material, the rest of this season looks to be stronger than the latter half of season 3, so I think in the end it will rate either above season 3 or just marginally below it, depending on how strong the latter episodes are. I expect the finale to be one of the best rated on this site if they stick closely to the source material (or at least sticking to the themes and ideas presented in the books if not the content itself), but the overall rating of the season will depend on how many strong episodes there are, not how consistent the season is. Season 1 had 6 episodes rating above 8.5; season 2 had 2; season 3 had 3; season 4 currently has none, but the finale will almost definitely hit 10, and perhaps episodes 6, 8 and 9 may reach it, although I don't think any of them will quite hit the 9 mark (the battle at the Wall might if it's impressive, but I just don't think it will be as fun to watch as Blackwater).

I seriously doubt a horn can bind multiple dragons. If that was the case, we would have heard about rogue Valyrian dragonlords who took control of multiple dragons.

Daenerys is powerful enough to define the cultural norms. That's the point I'm trying to stress. She lives by the Meereenese cultural norms when she rules Meereen, and it's part of the reason she fails.

HAHAHAHA stop, you're embarassing yourself. If you don't understand why the imagery of a white woman crowdsurfing in a sea of brown people is incredibly racist and offensive (and untrue to the culture of Slaver's Bay), then just avoid the discussions rather than derailing them. If they wanted the scene to not look so ridiculously offensive, they should have kept the mix of races and ethnicities of Yunkish slaves. But obviously it wasn't a priority for D&D, and it has seriously affected the quality of the scene and the show itself (particularly by ending the season with the scene). The scene was incredibly stupid anyway. How did Dany know she wouldn't be harmed without the vision in the House of the Undying? Why was she on foot rather than on a horse? Why were all the slaves dressed so poorly, when most slaves in Yunkai would be well-dressed bed slaves, healers, scholars, etc.? Why would she risk having the dragons so close to the walls of Yunkai?

Nope. I love (book) Dany more than any other character, but I hate the way they've taken her story into "white saviour" territory. And worse - the show is glorifying Dany as a white saviour. I'm one of the most vocal Dany stans on this forum, but I'm not deluded. The scene was awful, racist, and a complete injustice compared to the scene GRRM wrote.

Did D&D forget that, as Slaver's Bay receives its slaves from all over the world, its slaves are not all non-white? That scene was embarassing to watch, and it was one of my absolute favourites in the book. In the books, Dany freed slaves. In the show, she's freed the only non-white people on the show. :bs:

I think that's a huge stretch. Tywin, Roose and the Freys orchestrated a plan in response to Robb's marriage, but that doesn't mean anyone would assume Tywin was behind it. And if that was the fear, why not just make it explicit that Tywin was not involved? As far as I can tell, it was mostly book readers who thought Talisa was a spy. ETA: Personally I don't think Robb's quick wedding to Jeyne was a great idea. I just think that Talisa as a character is a lot worse.

But... that's not what happened. Robb and Jeyne fell in love (or, for the more cynical, had sex), so Sybell used it to make sure the Westerlings would not end up like the Reynes of Castamere. Tywin did not orchestrate it, nor does he ever claim to have done so; he just reacted to Robb's bad decision.

Jeyne wasn't an important character, but that doesn't mean she was a "thin" character. She was a far stronger character in terms of characterisation than Talisa, who is ALSO merely a plot-device for Robb. Actually, Talisa is even more of a plot-device: she was completely "fridged" for Robb's character development, whereas Jeyne out-lived Robb and has a storyline that extends beyond him. She also has a personality; she's simply shy - which is, you know, a very valid and realistic characteristic. In contrast, Talisa is a Strong Female Character who cheapens the narratives of other female characters; for example, she can walk around a battlefield unprotected and go unmolested, but Brienne - a physically much stronger woman who wears armour - can't even fight alongside her fellow soldiers without constantly fearing rape.

There are only so many times I can praise the cast, soundtrack, etc. before it just begins to sound empty. I really don't care if you choose to pay attention to my criticism. If I was writing for others to read, I'd write a semi-professional review. Instead I list problems I've found from the adaptation process. If you have a problem with that and want to enjoy the show without thinking about its problems, the solution is simple: don't read my posts. The last two books have problems, and anyone who has read my posts in the General forum would realise that I have been very critical of them (although I actually think they contain more interesting moments than the first two books).

I watch the show for mind-dumbing enjoyment at this point (which it should NOT be, but that's another point entirely). But this thread is about rating the episode. It's directly asking for an analysis. And when the show is analysed, it begins to fall apart.

He had blurry eyes, he was overly relaxed, he was silent, and his shrugging didn't fit with what we'd already seen of the character. I don't know how else the actor could have shown that he was drunk? Just because he wasn't as bad as Tyrion, Cersei and Robert doesn't mean he wasn't drunk. Barristan should have been ready to protect Daenerys at any moment - that's what the Queensguard are for. Instead he was drinking. For me, that's just an unneccessary problem.

A lot of people do think he looked drunk, hence why that gif was made. It's just been upstaged by the Red Wedding. The actor does what the script says. Barristan was drinking wine and shrugged at Dany rather than saying anything. That suggests that they deliberately wrote it as him being drunk.

Sorry you can't handle criticism about the show, but some of us like to critically engage with what we watch and not just blindly accept everything. Even the least attentive viewers should be able to pick up the inconsistency of Barristan's actions.

It's unnecessary and makes no sense within the context of the SHOW's version of Barristan Selmy. A couple of episodes ago he criticised Robert for being "a drunk" and then said he looks forward to serving Daenerys... And then in this episode he's getting drunk on the job and putting Dany's life in danger. He looks completely incompetent. Cersei looks competent for sacking him.

THAT'S why I'm so bitter about it. There's NO WAY Barristan would ever get drunk on the job, but that's exactly what he's doing. Book!Barristan isn't desperate for glory - he wouldn't get jealous that Jorah is fighting in Yunkai and not him. He is proud to serve Daenerys. So why is he bitter about being "left behind"?

You really don't see how this shows Barristan is drunk??? :bs: He looks like he's just got home from the local pub.

It's not a huge stretch at all. It's factually correct. Go back and watch the scene and actually pay attention to Barristan's mannerisms this time: he's drunk. This is show apologism at its finest... Denying something that is written all over the actor's body language and facial expressions.

Did you not bother looking at Barristan's face? His eyes were blurry, he was silent, and he was shrugging. Those are not the signs of someone having "one cup of wine". Those are the signs of someone being seriously drunk. Exactly - it was a wasted opportunity. The books managed to fit a conversation about Rhaegar in that scene, so why couldn't the show? Dany was anxious and used Barristan as escapism.

I liked episode 4 because they pulled off one of the biggest moments in the books almost perfectly. But that was not the only reason: it was an episode without the mess of Robb and Cat's storyline, without Kit Harington's poor acting, and featured some good King's Landing scenes (the Pod joke was a throwaway line and cheapened the episode, but it didn't really affect anything). I also liked episode 5 despite it only featuring one Dany scene (where, as I noted, she was a bit out of character). I liked episode 5 because the writing was good. For me, Dany and Jaime's scenes have been the best part about the season (and this appears to be quite a common opinion). The other storylines have been handled less consistently. So when those two had fantastic scenes, it pulled the quality of the episode up. But when their scenes were disappointing (Jaime in episode 7 - his character has been reduced to 'good guy' at this point; 8 and 9 for Dany), there was nothing in place to make the episode stand-out.