Rubberburner

excellent episode overall. was a nice bounceback from last week, which i felt the red wedding could have been done better. there were many compelling takes and glad to see them finally back at castle black. the roose/ frey scene was interesting. including the rat king story was critical and explained the significance of freys betrayal beyond his actions. davos is more compelling in the show than in the books, so a+ with anything involving the actor who plays him. the jaime / cersei reunion was touching they need to create more scenes with tyrion, tywin, and joffrey in counsel.. just brilliant stuff and i want more of it, even if it isn't in the books, like tonight's was. beyond the material and how the characters are written, these are probably 3 of the best 4 actors on the show...they need to be showcased even more. even the greyjoy twist i didn't mind so much..one of the weaker threads in the books and needs some activity to make the ironborn compelling. shae is not a likable character despite the show's efforts...sappy romance angle is really lame, actress is poor.. book tyrion may be a romantic but he doesn't ever presume she feels the same way. i'm worried they may not portray her betrayal the same way... overall, very strong season.. couple of dud episodes but that is bound to happen.. very excited for next year as it should have the best 'big moments' from the source material to work with.

it's good you admitted this..like i said, this is the mindset i cannot stand and i've already covered this. i didn't like the episode, because it's grrm, i expected better, you, on the other hand, have made it clear you will accept less. i don't have a preconceived notion in my brain that just because grrm is a great author, that it would be impossible for him to write something below his standards. honestly was going to make the effort to respond to the rest of what you said but i think this is grounds for dismissal. there's plenty of time for them to steady things and i'm still enjoying the shit out of the show, i just wish each episode could stand on its own merits more.

so you are arguing that he should get this much screen time each week to accomplish this? i just want to be clear here. this is what elio and/or linda wrote about this, and i couldn't agree more: In the last two episodes, Theon has occupied a significant chunk of screen time—five minutes or more an episode—and we still do not understand it. The acting is fine—Alfie Allen is good, Iwan Rheon is good—but there are so many fine actors, and so many underserved storylines. Yes, what happens is horrific—and it’s horrific, too, when we learn about it in the novels, because Martin knew how to underplay it. Benioff and Weiss do not seem to allow that the power of our imagination can create things far more terrifying and disturbing than what’s on the screen, instead descending into The Hostel-style torture pornography. At least they have the grace to cut away at the end, to not actually show the physical act, but the scene leaves no doubts, no real mystery, no chance at a slow reveal in a way that could shock in a much more visceral way if written properly. to answer your question, i'd rather they cut it out or have just killed theon off in the show rather than doing this every week. most people who watch the show are still unaware of who is the torturer..and it's not like that is some big reveal that is going to put things properly into place. the way they're doing it is almost certainly not the only way it can be done...

none of these things requires 10% of the show volume over the course of the season. ramsey's character has plenty of seasons and time to be established. there's just too much.

this really isn't that big of a deal for me, i had plenty of real problems with this episode, this was just a distinction that is clear from the books. he says multiple times, 'any oath sworn at sword point is no good' or some such.. it depends how you see the character i suppose, for me, he says this not because he doesn't want to see sansa returned, but because he knows his father will never give up a strategic advantage in the war.

can be done in other ways, and there are plenty who still hate him who have read the books.. point is he is swearing an oath to do something that is not within his power to grant or make happen. he doesn't begin to take oaths seriously until he is rejected back at KL and broods in his kingsguard book. explain to someone who hasn't read the books how jaime is going to get sansa back to her family.. i was just asked to do so tonight and had nothing.

i noticed in the credits that the bear was named, and thought to myself 'there's no way that they named an animation'.. regardless of it being real or not...something just felt off in that scene. guess i have to watch it again and go back and read the book chapter as well...my point was for it being the only reason scene of substance in the entire episode besides the gigantic reveal about talisa (possibly being a lannister spy, not the baby) it just didn't feel that momentous or tense in any way,.. and not just because i knew what would happen or that i thought the bear looked bad anyway, guilty as charged, by that point in the episode i was shaking my head, jaime swearing to bring the stark girls home, something he neither has the authority or means to do even when he returns to KL... just really silly and directly contradictory from the man who wrote the character.

it's really incredible to me that the prevailing wisdom on here was that this was a solid episode. theres some serious GRRM sycophancy happening and it's really annoying to read, especially after watching people break a sweat nitpicking about last week episode, which easily trounces this.... the fact that GRRM has written this garbage should disappoint you MORE so than if it were just some other writer...i really don't get you people. cringe worthy moments include the very cliche romance moments, and as much as i hate to say it, the actress playing shae is terrible..worse than ros, i'm beginning to think they killed off the wrong whore. 'tyrion is a handsome man' - grrm wrote this as a line of dialogue for marg, yes book tyrion is different blah blah blah, this is just absurd to me however. the dragons look great but the bear looked really bad in my opinion, something was missing, the danger didn't feel real even if the bear was... just kills all the suspense for me, can't blame GRRM but clearly poor execution. a few naked girls aren't going to change the fact that theon's torture porn is really getting over the line.. it's going nowhere, and sure it may have more impact than him retelling his torment later on...but there is no payoff that can be worth this. and theon's lack of factoring into major events really makes his story a drag on the whole show. tyrion speaking of having children with his whore, sansa admitting she's dumb and never learns and then continuing to show that despite being aware of her faults, she continues to act the same way...not adhering to punctuality would be 'a slight' to frey, not the fact that YOU'RE BRINGING ROBB'S WIFE????????@??@?@?? bronn giving tyrion advice on how to do his duty as a lord, something he would know nothing about, i'm all for any excuse to get more bronn in the show, but this was dumb and poorly thought out. i was also profoundly disappointed in the tywin/joff scene, not that it wouldn't be awesome to have a scene, but because of, again, the poor writing (baffling to say almost) and dialogue... wouldn't joffrey be upset that his grandfather gave away his favorite toy of spite to the imp, not that he doesn't get to sit on small council meetings? wouldn't this scene be much more interesting if he tried to go against tywin's wishes to wed sansa to tyrion? regardless if he actually understands the larger implications to the marriage or not, i would think the joffrey in the show (more sadistic and cruel etc) would personally want to take hand in any decision involving sansa..him being concerned about dany..may make a nice transition for the show to a dany scene, which i can't even remember if it did or not, but it was ultimately quite pointless and the conflict would have been much more interesting if tywin had gotten joffrey to back down after a lengthy argument about what to do with sansa. this just seems like grrm had a rough draft and turned it in 2 days before they shot...really poor decisions, scenes of talking about nothing, leading nowhere, getting backstory of characters that could be compelling (osha) but in melisandre's case, wouldn't it have been better if she went in to how and for what purpose she arrived in westeros. book readers already knew she was a slave, i just wish there was more compelling material there, maybe george is saving it for the books who knows. i just found myself for the first time this season saying after many scenes 'i can think of 3 ways off the top of my head this scene could have been written better' and it is just a feeling i am not accustomed to with this show. just to be clear about something else, i am not a nitty nitpicker who hates the show or any changes they make from the books. as an adaptation, i think they do about as well as can be expected with such a massive cast and limited budget. i'm speaking as someone who enjoyed last weeks episode, which most people hated for reasons i understand, but when those same people praise this episode, which in my opinion is as bad as anything they did wrong in season 2, maybe worse considering the expectations i had going in given who had written it. this is the first episode this season i did not like, and i mean i HATE HATE hated, most of it.