Peptalk

If they announce Talisa is pregnant in this episode only to have her miscarriage in the next, I don't see what the point is of bringing it in at all. There has to be something bigger in play.

Oh, and - the Gendry reveal! I'm fine with it.

I like Rose Leslie as Ygritte, but I think they're playing too much at her wit. It's starting to annoy me. And wth is this with Talisa being pregnant? What? I don't like her. I hope she is killed at the RW, but sadly I think not. She has to be a spy, right? I suspected it for some time, but... I'm starting to think she is for real now. Perhaps she's saying she's pregnant - but actually isn't? If she is a spy, she has to know by now that Robb will die? As always, I love Jaime and Brienne. Hm... right, I'm usually supportive of the torture scenes, but I'm starting to feel that they are taking too much space now with this episode.

I absolutely hate re-casting of characters. I just don't buy the 'change the face, keep the character'. I'm glad they didn't even if they are growing fast. It doesn't matter much anyway, since the characters already are aged up. Sometimes children grow very fast over a short amount of time.

I'm looking forward to see Sam the Slayer in action. I hope it will be soon.

It doesn't take up a lot of time in every episode. It takes up some time in some episodes.

I really liked this episode, but it wasn't as great as last week's. I always think this but... too little Jaime & Brienne! Although we will see a lot more of them next week. I was shocked to see Ros go the way she did, but it was definitely about time the non-reader viewers were reminded just how bad Joffrey is. It was nicely done though, with Littlefinger's monologue voicing over the montage. I liked Cersei's & Tyrion's little chat. I'm liking the few scenes between them that aren't venomous. They might have issues with one another, but sometimes they're just a sister and brother teaming up to find solutions to a common problem. They really only have each other to confide in about family matters, and it's nice to watch when they do. So, Arya and Melisandre will meet again, and some foreshadowing about the Faceless Men! It could be interpreted as her killing men with those eye colours as well, but that's less interesting as that could be anyone. They're such common colours. Loras was wonderfully awkward in his scene with Sansa. Clearly not comfortable at all, hehe. Oh and, Theon. As uncomfortable I am with watching his scenes with Ramsay, I do think they are necessary for non-reader viewers. If they aren't shown what horrors he lives through during this time, they won't understand or sympathize with him later on. In the books we were able to understand Theon's journey through his thoughts, but that's not possible on screen. I couldn't actually watch, but was Ramsay flaying his finger at the end? I thought it looked like it. Another hint...

I took it as a gesture of anger, anger with Karstark to forcing his hand like that, by killing the Lannister boys. Also, despite all the battles he has been to and watching his father do it plenty times, it still must have been hard for him to do that to a man. Killing a man in a battle is different to beheading a man who doesn't defend himself. I took it as him grabbing his hand to confirm that it still was there and that he really had done just that. That he was losing his composure because he hated having had to do that, and that he was furious for it. Could definitely be interpreted your way as well though, obviously. That too makes sense.

He did shy away now and then and reacted to it when the sword lit up initially though? I thought his fear for fire came through.

Same here. I used to hate her, but a friend of mine has explained how he views her. After several discussions we had he had me reconsidering my hatred. Suffice to say, I no longer think of her as a supreme powerhungry bitch. More like a woman desperate for independence and considering power the best means of gaining it.

Ah, I found it. I think I got it off his Wiki-page which I assume is correct. "At the age of fifteen, Jaime was knighted on the battlefield by Ser Arthur Dayne during the campaign against the Kingswood Brotherhood[9], during which he saved Lord Crakehall from Big Belly Ben and crossed swords with the psychotic Smiling Knight. On his return to King's Landing he stopped to visit his sister, from whom he had been separated for years. It was there that Cersei told him that Lord Tywin intended to marry him to Lysa Tully, second daughter of Lord Hoster Tully of Riverrun. Cersei suggested that Jaime become a member of the Kingsguard instead, replacing the recently deceased Ser Harlan Grandison, to be close to her and free himself of the unwanted marriage to Lysa. After a night of passionate sex he gave his consent to Cersei's plan and within a month she had orchestrated it.[9]"

Perhaps not phrased like that, but I re-read certain Jaime chapters recently for reference in a discussion and think I read something along those lines. I may also have read something someone quoted from the books.

Yeah, I don't think they actually read the entire thread while posting, hehe. And yes Versiroth > I feel that way sometimes too. It was nice discussing with you anyway, though!

Hehe!

Cersei convinced him to join the Kingsguard to hinder him from getting married. He joined the Kingsguard because it would keep him close to her.

"If I faint, pull me out. I'm don't intend to be the first Lannister to die in a bath tub." "Why should I care how you die?" "You swore a solemn vow, remember? You're supposed to get me to King's Landing in one piece. Not going so well, is it? No wonder Renly died with you guarding him."

Right! I had forgotten that, yes.

Also, looking at Cersei as a person, I don't think she ever thought that she was less important than Robert, or that she in any way should bow to him just because he was the king. He certainly was the king, but she was his queen - and if it was alright for him to whore around I'm fairly certain she thought she was entitled to a lover as well. It must have been natural for her to continue sleeping with Jaime if she were to have a lover after being married to Robert.

I suppose that is true. It was quite idiotic to continue when she had married Robert, but on the other hand, if I look at it through their eyes (and especially Cerseis) I think they felt it was justified because of the way Robert treated her. She tells him (Robert) at some point that she had loved him and wanted to be with him, but that she started despising him instead after he kept calling her Lyanna and continued to show that he didn't care for her the same way. I don't think his whoring around helped the cause. Perhaps it would have been different had he treated her better.

I like to view things from different angles. Makes for a more interesting discussion.

Well, to be fair, they were small children at the time. I'm not sure they were aware it was wrong. You could argue that Joanna's separating them and telling them to never do it again should have been enough but given their age at the time I wouldn't blame either party if it wasn't. Looking at history the Targaryens wed their siblings for centuries, and unless she ever discussed it with them again I'm fairly certain that would convince them that it was alright despite what she said that one time. A child whose mother tells him/her once that what he/she is doing is wrong once doesn't usually have the desired effect. Things usually have to be explained several times to children. Although, once they became older, yes, they should probably have realized it was wrong if that is the common opinion in Westeros. I can understand if they didn't stop after having done it for such long time though, given that it had worked just fine all along (= nothing ever happened that indicated that it was wrong, any illness or such).

Oh, I wasn't saying you do, merely that that is the general impression I have of people who hate or strongly dislike him. In which scenes do you think he comes off as an asshole despite trying to do some good? Just curious.

I'm editing this post, so; I haven't. You seemed to be implying that their incest was the single cause for the war, which isn't true. Yes, it definitely was part in causing the war as it, as you said, had a ripple effect. But all those characters that made moves after Bran had been pushed out the window were also cause for the war as they all made certain choices. Had they in turn not made said choices (the same way, if Jaime hadn't slept with Cersei he wouldn't have pushed Bran out the window) it might have turned out different. Every choice made by every character in the chain of events led to an outcome, in this case, the war.

Yes, but perhaps their parents could have prevented them, or had them reconsider the sense in doing just that in the first place. It's not as if Joanna explained to them why it was wrong when it was discovered by... a maid? I think. She separated them and told them never to do it again. How's that for good parenting? So, we might just call that the reason for the war. All I'm saying is that one person's action never is the single cause. There is always a chain of events leading to the result. I don't mind people disliking Jaime at all, but most people who hate him can't admit to him even attempting to change, or having any good qualities, because they are blinded by their hatred for him, usually because of what he did to Bran. People can hate him all they like, but to say he is a complete asshole or force of evil without any good qualities at all (as is common by those who dislike him) is just wrong. It's not true. And that is what I oppose and mind. A person who can't admit to his attempts to change for the better when he clearly is, or that he has any good qualities what so ever, strikes me as ignorant. There is definitely more to Jaime than what he did to Bran, and it is a pity when people can't see that. There are plenty characters I hate in the books, but I would never either of them pure evil or such. With the exception of Joffrey perhaps, or Brienne. They are pretty much black and white, but I'm happily proven wrong.

And if Cat had been smart about it and not charged him the way she did without proper proof, Jaime wouldn't have struck Ned down in King's Landing to make a point, and if Ned hadn't challenged Joffrey's right to the throne he wouldn't have been betrayed and sentenced to death and later beheaded, and if Ned hadn't been beheaded Robb wouldn't have marched on King's Landing. And if Tywin and Joanna had separated them earlier and brought them up better, it wouldn't have happened either. And if whatever caused them not to hinder their incest in an early stage hadn't happened, it wouldn't have led to the war either. Bla bla bla. Just sayin'. The war is the result of multiple actions by multiple people.