Suzanna Stormborn

[ Could this truly be Prince Aegon?"

"Gregor Clegane ripped Aegon out of Elia’s arms and smashed his head against a wall," Ser Daemon said. "If Lord Connington’s prince has a crushed skull, I will believe that Aegon Targaryen has returned from the grave. Elsewise, no. This is some feigned boy, no more. A sellsword’s ploy to win support."

My father fears the same. "If not, though… if this truly is Jon Connington, if the boy is Rhaegar’s son… "

"Are you hoping that he is, or that he’s not?"

"I… it would give great joy to my father if Elia’s son were still alive. He loved his sister well."

"It was you I asked about, not your father."

So it was. "I was seven when Elia died. They say I held her daughter Rhaenys once, when I was too young to remember. Aegon will be a stranger to me, whether true or false." The princess paused. "We looked for Rhaegar’s sister, not his son." ]

The choice of the words that GRRM used made me think. Nothing obvious, just an intuition. Can't say anything for sure...but sth made me feel a serious doubt instantly...

Cool, thanx for sharing :)that conversation is exactly what everyone is thinking, that's funny :cool4:

I believed Aegon to be real until reading the first Arrianne chapter, now I think it is more likely that he is fake. I guess GRRM is trying to hold both doors open, just not to spoil the surprise, but I believe it will be revealed in a short time that he is fake and he won't be able to survive for long. I found really funny that some people think that there will be a Aegon+GC/Tyrell alliance. That is very unlikely, but there is a real possibility that JC and Aegon eliminated, GC will take sides with who has the money to pay. Tyrells are able do that. So instead of allying with Aegon, we may very well see GC bought by Tyrells, which will eventually help them grow strong...

Just wondering, what about the Arianne chapter made you think Aegon is fake?

I meant that she could have simply sacked the slaver cities and moved on to Pentos/Westeros. But instead she has been freeing slaves. She has spent a lot of time and effort on making sure that the freed are not enslaved again.

It is possible that GRRM intends Dany to move along this 'breaker of chains' story. She could go to Volantis where slaves are ready to rebel. If the slavers are decisively defeated outside Meereen, a lot of cities could be rid of slaves. It is possible that Dany arrives in Westeros with a unique army of Unsullied, Dothraki, freed slaves and Dragons! I am already drooling :)

BTW, I agree that Dany has already seen a lot of bad. Losing her brother, her husband and her son, not to mention the loss of her other family, is huge IMO.

YUP agreed totally, I am also drooling waiting to see what happens. I hope they do go to volantis, that city is ripe. And now she has the iron born fleet and the volantis fleet to get her there. :cheers:

GRRM "liking" Dany doesn't necessarily preclude him from turning her into an antagonist. As stated again and again on these boards, very few characters will be purely good or evil. Dany has many admirable traits, but she has also made a lot of mistakes. I'm not a Dany hater, but I do see how it makes sense that she is, at least at the end of ADWD, heading down towards the "dark side".

yeah I mean I think he bad stuff has already happened. IMO what she did that was 'bad' was worry about Hizdar while she locked her dragons up. And when she was at the cave with Drogon and she turned her back on him and started walking away and then starting like dying or whatever was wrong with her. those were bad choices, clearly because right after that drogon came back to save her and then they feasted on burnt horse together :) (yummy) plus she made the terrible decision of saving MMD. So i think all in all she has already had a lot of 'bad' already.

don't you think?

Dany may or may not sit on the iron throne. The slaves meant nothing to her, and look what she has done for them; or at least tried to do. With the counsel of the likes of Barristan and Tyrion and perhaps the support or guidance of Victarion and the maester from the Citadel, I don't see her going down the dark path.

She will play a pivotal role against the Others. After that, she might die, sit the Iron Throne, return to the East where she spent most of her life and where a lot of people call her mother, or even lead the first settlement into the ruins of the old Valyrian Empire.

But GRRM has NOT set her up to be a villain.

I agree :) But what do you mean that 'the slaves meant nothing to her; and look what she has done for them' ?

Suzanna, I agree with you. I think George likes her too much for her to become the villian. But Dany haters want her to be the villian to justify their hate, as their reasoning is on pretty shaky ground. But that being said I wouldn't like to predict the remaining books at all.

I love to be agreed with thank you. I also admit to having no idea what will happen in the last 2 books, but I am sure that Dany is a good guy all the way through. She is the reason a lot of people love the books and the show. While not all of her decisions have been perfect her and Jon are The SOIAF. and everyone needs to deal with it.

Brace yourself for the storm of Dany hate sure to come your way! I am a Dany fan, but I do think other characters do some good things as well.

And I am pretty sure GRRM has said that the story came from the first actual chapter--Bran riding out to see the deserter beheaded. Everything grew from that.

Sorry, but I could care less about the dany-haters, they make no sense to me and I don't hear them.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Blood_of_the_Dragon

Blood of the dragon came out a month before GOT. And anyway i know I'm right about Dany being the Protagonist, so ppl can say whatever they want and I'll still know I'm right about that subject at least through all these books I am sure about Dany.

I don't think you have to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon. After all, the Targaryens were not the only family in Valyria. Heck, given the evidence we have it appears the Targaryens were either not very well respected or even exiled from Valyria. If there is a bloodline requirement to ride a dragon, i think one would simply need to be of Valyrian descent. I doubt legitimacy would matter either, since that doesn't change the blood. Also a greenseer/warg might be able to overcome not having Valyrian blood and still bond with/ride a dragon.

I think Dany is being set up to be an antagonist to Westeros. The dragons are here weapons and will be pretty monstrous. They are an embodiment of magic and magic is a "hiltless sword". They bring chaos and ultimately can't be completely controlled, as seen already with Drogon eating the children from that village. Dany's only answer was to take him and fly off into the wilderness away from people. That's not really possible in Westeros.

That being said, I think I remember reading somewhere that GRRM said that the literal Dragons were added as an afterthought. Am I completely off base on this? If this is true, I can't see them being the ultimate super weapon, the key to defeating the WW/others, lightbringer, etc. While GRRM could certainly have altered the story to give the dragons a bigger significance, i just can't help but view them as a huge red herring.

No I disagree, Dany has been set up to be the savior not the other way around. All good things come from Dany, ASOIAF is based off of his first short story called 'Blood of the Dragon', which is just dany's POv's from GOT. These stories are about Dany and her family. She is the good guy all the way.

They may make it to King's Landing and win Dany her throne, but I suspect that the winter will kill off the Dothraki, even if the Others don't. Mind you, the Others may be able to raise the Dothraki for their army.

YIKES, you mean an army of dothraki walkers? Holy shit, even Rick and the gang couldn't handle that!!

No one has mentioned on this thread you're scenario. I personally don't think the Dothraki will ever make it to Westeros. I don't see how a horde of several tens of thousands of Dothraki, their horses, and their women and children will fit on a bunch of boats and cross the narrow sea. There are theories out there that they may cross over the Lands of Always Winter via a land strait, but that also seems unlikely given how cold it is up there. Talk about under-dressed...

LOL, yeah that would be tough either way, she is going to have to get a lot of ships to make all this work. Basically she will have to commandeer the entire Volantene fleet.

Don't know if anybody has suggested this, and I can't be bothered to read 22 pages of comments, but I believe Victarion will win the battle for Barristan, finds Dany gone, and will kill Barristan and steal a dragon and goes back home.

Tyrion may be able to tame the remaining dragon by the time Dany gets back and proves his worth to her, then they, her Unsullied army and new Dothraki army finally heads to Westeros.

haha, that is exactly what I think too! Weird! except it will be Tyrion and BBP taming the dragon. the dragons liked BBP the first time they met him, I think it was Viserion specifically that was fond of him. That couldn't have been mentioned for no reason.

But the thing is, you actually don't have to estimate anything, do you? You just need to have a look at the Journeys Map in The Lands of Ice and Fire. And according to this map, Dany is still at least four times closer to Meereen than to Vaes Dothrak.

yeah but as a dragon flies, she's not too far from either.

Burning one of her old enemies and acquire his khalasar, to add like... 20 000 new troops to her army?

i mean obviously that, I see no reason why dany would let him live. but i mean after that there is no reason to just wander around in the grass. She will either have to head to Mereen or go to VD.

is simply being on the Dothraki Sea not already enough going east? + I think Dany being ou there has more to do with the "to go forwarth, you must look back" part of the prophecy.

Hey that's a good point! but she has to have a purpose to be there I think Jay Maester Jay has a point. what else could she possibly be trying to accomplish on the Dothraki sea. I mean there's nothing to do there if not go to Vaes Dothrak right?

Dany and the Dothraki horde are going to Vaes Dothrak first, not Meereen. It is known.

Haha, what are they going there for?

Yeah this is my gut feeling too. Nice plot twist just as the Iron Born are getting crushed.

:cheers:

I kind of already predicted this kind of scene since ADWD... I'm only hoping that Victarion and Barristan have swordfight/duel with blunt swords just to see whos more badass... Who do you think will win though? XD

Vic vs Barristan hand to hand. OMG i have no idea. Barristan is so quick and strong, but gaining in years, and this battle will definitely tire him out big time. And Vic was just tearing through ppl when they boarded that ship. like 6 or 7 ppl in a row. I would have to give the upper hand to Vic I guess, even though I don't want to :(

To be fair, I doubt the Volantene fleet is right behind them. At least several days out. The Ironborn passed Volantis, and at the time the Volantene people were still partying and hadn't shipped off to Slaver's Bay yet. Furthermore, with such a large force of ships (300), holding the fleet together would take a lot longer, whereas Victarion had a much smaller fleet. After that storm, the Volantene's would have taken much longer to link up. Moreover, the Volantene's have all the time in the world to arrive at Slaver's Bay, unlike the Ironborn who have to race to get there and out before the Volantene's arrive. Chances are, after the battle, the Ironborn leave immediately to slip past the Volantene's or they stay and join a plan to raze and capture the oncoming vessels when they arrive.

That's what I tend to think, how could they all show up for the same battle on the same day? They aren't emperor penguins.

So that means that right after the battle, there will be another fleet pulling up behind the ironborn. If we are lucky the slave's on those ships will just overthrow the volantene captains and join dany's cause.

I expect Dany to show up like that, à la Tywin at the Battle of the Blackwater.

This battle will be so epic. It's already the slaver's vs. barristans army and the iron born are pulling up in the harbor. The volantene fleet is right behind them. Dany and Drogon have a dothraki khalasar 20K deep and there are 2 other dragons on the loose. I can't even imagine what will happen and who will die!?!?

People who have read Dunk and Egg have said Targs can have multiple brides legally, I don't see how that works, but I thought that Dany saw Rhaegar holding Aegon with Elia being very weak. And then Rhaegar said there had to be a third, am I completely misremembering this?

I just bought the books with Dunk & Egg short stories in them. Ill have to get back to this after I read:)

And I can't remember exactly what they said in her vision, except that 'this is the PWWP' I just thought that it was Rhaegar and Lyanna instead of Elia. there is never a mention of who the woman is specifically.

Griff said that Illyrio paid Triarch Nyessos Vhassar of the Elephant party enough to own him eight times over...

I wonder what happened to the Volantene fleet though? Were they under Tiger power at the time they set sail? Vic was speculating the fleet's loss at sea amid storms the Iron Fleet encountered during their voyage to Mereen. And the red priest and Moqorro said:

"No rain. Behind come the tigers. Ahead awaits your dragon."

And the countless slaves of Volantis, who worship R'hollor for the most part, are crying out for their Dragon Queen saviour, who they also believe is Azor Ahai.

Crazy times ahead. Craaayzeeeeyy.

Oh yeah good point about 'Behind are the tigers' so yeah maybe they will show up during the battle.

:cheers:

Since characters in ASoIaF are typically doomed to an ironic fate, as is GRRM's brilliant writing style, I do wonder whether Ser Barristan will die in a less than honourable or knightly manner. However, he's already been shamed and expelled by the Joff once, so maybe he's hit his narrative plateau or is hurtling towards an heroic death arc.

I love how, really no one has any idea what will happen, credit to GRRm for making the most unpredictable set of books ever!

I like Barristan, and the fact that he has pledged himself to Dany and has told her she is not like her father, that she is the trueborn and rightful heir to westeros makes me feel better for her, like he wouldn't put his name on something that wasn't in the right.

I hope he is able to come through this battle galiantly, maybe he will die a little later, but I hope he gets to at least see Dany again and give her Silver back. I feel like Tyrion, Jorah and BBP are going to somehow be the heroes of the battle for Mereen. They have something cooking, and it will be the only way to defect back to Dany and keep her happy with them.

So the Khalasar Dany just met up with , it's enormous right? It's everyone that was left over from kahl Drogo's Khalasar right? If Dany leads them to the battle with her dragon the slaver armies wont stand a chance seems like.

I have seen ppl say the wild card in the battle will be the Volantene fleet. But idk, will they really show up in the middle of the battle just like the ironborn did? Seems like too much of a coincidence for them all to show up within a few hours of each other on the same day right?

is there a page were you can find all chapters from WoW?

here is the most recent arianne chapter

http://georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html

Is it now? The Quentyn-companions will tell Doran the truth: Quent being spurned etcetera, Dany had nothing to do with his death but it were her dragons... But how he was treated by the members of Dany's court- the likes of Daario won't impress Doran btw- and how she favord a local over him, I don't think Doran is going to like all that.

Yeah he won't like it, but what's he gonna do? the targaryens and Dorne are each other's only friends in Westeros. Seems like they would stick together. Unless, of course, it comes to surface that at some point Rhaegar did in fact set Elia aside to make Lyanna his official lady before Jon was born. Which I think had to have happened right? i think it was Rhaegar and Lyanna in Dany's vision in the HOTU......does anyone else?

Yes, this is my hunch too (although I'm not sure Aegon is a fraud). I think Varys (with some annoying interference out of his control) could well be using the church to his and Aegon's advantage to secure King's Landing ready for a new "pure" boy king. Aegon needs the will of the small-folk behind him. A grass roots religious rebellion is an absolutely perfect tactical ally in this context.

However, I disagree that the Lannisters or Tyrells will be entirely pushed out or made enemies of. I think it's more efficient to use their strength for new purposes. So it could be that Margaery as you say is held captive, but as a sort of ransom to secure Highgarden's allegiance to Aegon. Also, now that Cersei is shamed and Kevan dead, Cersei can be controlled. Perhaps she'll be sent back to Casterley Rock as guardian of the west once again under a new husband – a loyal petty lord of Tyrell (or by then even Targaryen/Varys) choosing. In such a situation Margaery would be found innocent, but only if she were to wed to Aegon, or [bla bla loyalties/marriages/lordships/favours]. The people do seem love her and Loras though, so they could be valuable assets.

Basically, both Highgarden and Casterley Rock must be brought firmly to heel under a legit Aegon if he stands any chance. Recognize their new boy ruler. Dorne will clearly be a huge player, and keen to see Highgarden diminish. They'll have terms of their own to present. The Riverlords hate their current masters anyway, so they'd probably dip their beaten, broken banners without much objection. Daenerys is the real wild card in all this.

Yep I'm certain this is all part of an intentional movement orchestrated by Varys/Illyrio to destabilize the entire region. Classic setup for new leadership; culminating in a coup d'etat.

Yes I am wondering what varys/FAegon will want to do with Cersei, because although she has been an absolute terrible shit to everyone in Westeros, what has she really done to the Targaryens? Why would FAegon/Aegon want to harm her? It would not be good diplomacy for those he means to rule. On the other hand, if he just lets her live and sends her back to Casterly Rock, she will almost certainly cause a lot more problems. I think if anything they will execute Tommen immediately and make Cersei watch. Maybe after that she will decide to go to Dorne and be with her daughter. Haha that would be a fun scene, Cersei in Dorne chillin with the sand snakes......