Arrow

I agree completely - watching something so disturbing without knowing WTH is going on, or why it's happening, is really hard. I finally put 2 and 2 together and realized the guy torturing Theon is connected to Roose Bolton - duh - so I gave in to my curiosity this morning, and read about the Bolton clan on Wiki, and some chapter synopses, so I could find out what happens to Theon. My gut feeling about his future was correct. I also researched a few other things, just because I couldn't wait to find out. I fed myself a great big spoiler, but it's such a relief that so many things make so much more sense now. We TV-only and part TV/part book people have been floundering around a bit, trying to make a lot of fairly obscure things line up correctly. I'm still reading the books and will continue, because there will be much more detail, and because I really like GRRM's writing.

I think most of the people on this thread haven't read the books or like me, haven't read as far yet as the events in the TV show version. So it's hard to know how things have been changed.

When Lord Bolton said maybe he should kill both Jaime and Brienne and burn their bodies, it made me suddenly fear him - he's much more cruel and ruthless than he's been letting on. His banners have that bloody body on them - I think they've been hiding his real personality and I think he's got something really horrible planned for Brienne. He has to know he's not going to get any sapphires for her in ransom. Now I'm nervous for Brienne and Gendry both. I'm beginning to think Westeros is the most dangerous place I've ever seen in any fiction tale. It's hard to stay alive and in one piece there!

Didn't the very first episode of Season 1 show Arya humiliating Bran when he was learning archery? She comes up behind him and shoots and hits the center, then runs from him.

I was really surprised when Mel was so taken aback by Thoros and Beric's interactions, like she didn't see that coming - "You shouldn't have this power" - she was genuinely shocked, and showed a bit of fear as all evil ones show when confronted with someone who might be more powerful - what if Thoros is in reality far more powerful than she is, and he hides it behind the drunken clown facade? Maybe not, but it's still very interesting, the contrast between her style and Thoros's in serving the LoL. Those two sons of Walder Frey were a couple of prizes, weren't they? Eww. With those as examples of his genetic-based outcomes, no wonder Edmure wanted to see his future bride first. The Starks and Tullys looked like choices for People Magazine's 50 Beautiful People next to those two. Jojen is having seizures - is he going to survive the series, or die out before the end? He seems very frail. Poor Sansa, still stuck in a nightmare. Does the girl ever catch a break? And Joffrey is being made to look horrible-awful-repulsive-crazy-quite-mad-you-know - I accidentally read somewhere about his future - yeah, I stumbled onto a spoiler, but I don't mind. Looks like they're prepping us, the TV-only audience, to really despise him so that what happens seems okay to us. The near-fall of Jon and Ygritte was frightening - Jon Snow, you're my hero! Their relationship doesn't look quite so cobbled-together now.

I gave it an 8. Edmure looked so funny while he was trying to figure out why everyone was looking at him. I like that actor. I haven't gotten this far with reading the books yet, so I'm not quite sure what's really going on. Loved the bickering between Osha and Meera. Jon's having to knock their heads together. Tywin and Olenna, wonderful scene. Experienced, crusty old powermongers going at each other for control of the realm. Wow. No mo' Ros. We knew Littlefinger was a scary beast, but that was over the top. He and Joffrey between them came up with pure evil, shudder. Arya really is a BAMF. She may turn out to be a worthy opponent for the Red Woman. I'm worried for Gendry. Jaime just can't keep his mouth shut, can he? Stupid git, I thought he was learning some humility. Guess it's too much to hope for. Theon is doomed.

I had no idea what was wrong with her face, and it was fairly disturbing to see, so I had to look her up in the Ice and Fire Wiki.

He said that the Mad King liked to burn people alive. He then said that when the armies of House Baratheon and House Lannister were descending on Kings Landing, the Mad King Aerys Targaryen had stashed pots of Wildfire around Kings Landing and wanted to burn the whole place to the ground, all the men, women, and children who lived in the city burned alive, so that Robert Baratheon would have nothing when he took Kings Landing. When Tywin Lannister arrived at Kings Landing, Jaime advised the Mad King to lock him out, but Maester Pycelle told the Mad King that Tywin Lannister had always been a friend to the Crown. The Mad King let the Lannister army in and they proceeded to sack the city. Jaime said the Mad King ordered Jaime to kill his own father and bring him, the Mad King, Tywin's head. Jaime refused and killed the Mad King so he couldn't burn anyone else alive, and so he wouldn't have to kill his own father. Brienne asks why he never told anyone this, and he said that when Eddard Stark came to the throne room and saw what Jaime had done, he immediately judged him and would not have wanted to hear his side of the story. He then asked what right does the wolf have to judge the lion - and starts to pass out. Brienne catches him and calls for help "for the Kingslayer". That's when he tells her his name is Jaime.

True about her not wanting to do the work - she has probably let her habit of manipulation take the place of striving for actual insight into what makes people tick, particularly her father. And he is no fool - he's certainly not going to let his daughter, who is nowhere near his intellectual equal, manipulate him.

I agree, that side of her personality is repulsive, the bad Cersei - she's hard and unfeeling, especially when it comes to her brother Tyrion, never gives an inch with him, and she has a limitless sense of her own entitlement, and she self-aggrandizes every chance she gets, referring to herself as the Queen instead of the more accurate Queen Regent. On the other hand, she loves her children above all else and actively seeks to protect them from harm, a redeeming quality in any mother. The worst thing for her is that she's perpetually frustrated because she has to, or has in the past had to, fully obey, with no appeal, her father, her son, her brother Jaime, and her late husband, she has had no choice in any of it. I think that could make anyone angry, especially a woman with ambition, to feel so held back, so trapped, with no way out. And because like all women, she is not allowed by society to be openly aggressive (unless they become a warrior like Breanne) she has to resort to channeling her hunger for power into passive-aggressive solutions - schemes - that easily backfire and leave her looking like a fool, and even more frustrated and angry than ever. But that's the genius of GRRM's characters, they're multifaceted and intriguing in their human-ness, we have so many conflicting feelings about them - Theon, Varys, Jorah, Catelyn, and most of all Jaime, whose character arc has been so fascinating - they test our ability to accept them warts and all, and not rush to judgement.

Not to mention his face when he was talking to the QoT - "I was told you were drunk, impertinent and thoroughly debauched. You would imagine my disappointment finding nothing but a browbeaten bookkeeper."

Excellent episode. Poor Arya misses her dad so much. :( Addendum: This episode was a lot about fire, and a lot about children and how war and the behavior of adults affects their lives. It appears that Stannis's poor daughter is neglected, and she is so sweet! And those poor Lannister boys - that was harsh. Arya is really still a child, as much of a BAMF as she is developing to be. She still has a child's deep grief for the loss of her father. Those stillborn babies in the jars were so creepy I couldn't stand to look at them. :ack: The Jaime/Breanne scene was touching; Jaime's journey has been a very hard one - he has carried a heavy burden of guilt and secrecy since the events of years before, and covered it up with bravado and bad behavior - he has finally found someone he can unburden himself to, a friend he can trust. As one reviewer put it, when he was overcome by everything and she grabbed him, it was a Pieta-like moment. And apparently Tywin is either unaware or in denial about Loras' sexual orientation. Or doesn't care. Hard to figure that guy out sometimes.

Cersei got gobstopped at the end, didn't she? I feel sorry for her in a way. She's trapped in a woman's body, but has a man's sense of independence, thirst for power, and need for self-determination.

hi litespeed- I believe it's understood that Jon Snow is doing a double agent thing in the TV show right now.Welcome, also. :thumbsup:

Agreed. I just watched that segment again, and the camera angles they're using when Varys is talking to Tyrion and opening the box seem to emphasize a new, more sinister feel they're giving him. The shot of him in the grungy mirror is an excellent device - first time I saw it, it gave me chills. They also use tight close-ups of his face when he's talking to Ros. They hadn't done that a whole lot in earlier episodes, it's like they're saying pay attention to this guy, he's becoming more important now. He says he hates magic, and all around him it's expanding as the dragons grow and develop and their magic grows stronger. I wonder how he'll cope with that development. Maybe the sorcerer is supposed to serve as a hedge against that - or maybe he's just going to take revenge and kill him. It'll be interesting to see.

Thanks for the reply - I know Margaery is looking forward to consolidating North and South with her and Joffrey on the iron throne, ruling over all, but isn't Ser Loras gay? (NTTAWWI) - So while she's seemingly handing Sansa the perfect answer to all her young girlish dreams of great ladies marrying handsome, dashing knights, there's a stink-bomb hidden in the offering. Sansa would not have children, she would not be wanted by her husband, marriage to Loras would turn into yet another horrible nightmare for her. Poor Sansa! Will she ever find the true love she wants so much? So far in this TV series, it seems everyone's using her for their own ends, and nobody so far (outside her family) has been genuinely concerned about her feelings or a good outcome for her, except Shea, but we know Shea is also kind of jealous of her because Tyrion considers Sansa to be beautiful. At least Tyrion treats her kindly in a sincere way, not like LF, who's slimy about it, like he is about everything. I must read faster. I've got to find out if Sansa has a good outcome.

Absolutely! This is the best developing relationship in the series, IMO - D&D are doing it just right. Started out as enemies but are finding an attachment based on mutual respect and good qualities they discovered in each other along the way, that most people don't see in day-to-day interactions - those are the best friendships, of course, the ones where you see people at their worst and still something shines through, and the person becomes valued... good stuff.

I still feel nervous for Sansa - I feel like the less she says to Margaery the better - I just don't trust that little schemer! Loved her granny's' little rant about roses and other stronger house names/words. When Varys and granny were talking, it felt like someone brewing up a homemade nightmare. Someone's going to take it in the shorts if those two are plotting, that's for sure. (Sounds like LF's in for it.) Arya so far is safe, thank goodness. She's a pistol. Love that she stood up to the Hound - loved the "Is being born a Clegane a crime?" part - poor old horrible Hound, nobody loves him. I didn't get the part about Catelyn and Bran in the tree. Weird.

Having not gotten this far in the books yet, I have to wonder, did Margaery arrange for the adoring crowd to be out there when she was touring the tombs with Joffrey? If so, that was quite a brilliant move on her part.

Fantastic-So many noteworthy moments - where to start - I don't get a sense of romantic feelings between Jaime and Brienne so much as his respect for her, something new for him - I suspect he has seen more dedication and integrity in her than in most of the men he's ever known. Even though she's a formidable warrior and worthy opponent, there's a certain innocence about her that makes her character so appealing. And Dany's segment - wow, just wow. Varys and the sorcerer was a shocker.

Yep. That's why Jaime bitch-slapped the guy after he disabled Ned from behind. Jaime was hugely pissed off at the soldier for doing that. I got the feeling Jaime wanted to disable and detain Ned himself, and he could have done it easily without the soldier's help.