Stannis Lives

It's been a few years since my last reread. Might be time for another. will be interesting to see where GRRM goes with Lightbringer. I hope it's not a red herring.

There was a comet in the sky when the dragons were hatched, right? Can't remeber if that was the book or show or both. That's definitely evidence for the dragons.

I'm referencing the show. I know it was returned to the Daynes. I was simply speculating on the pause of the camera on the sword hilt. It had to have meaning. And I've always been in the camp that Dawn is Lightbringer. The age and material of the sword, along with the fire across the sky in the prophecy are hard to ignore. ETA:. And "dawn" brings the light.

There have been dragons for thousands of years. What makes these any different than the others? It took three dragons with three dragon riders to conquer westeros the first time. It will take three dragons with three riders to do it again.

I think that's the point. The real battle is the battle for humanity. The lannisters will be destroyed and most likely dany and her army will join with Jon to fight the white walkers. Does the iron throne really matter at that point? i noticed upon rewatch that during the tower of joy scene, they spend an extra second on Arthur daynes sword as Ned lays it against the bed. It has a sun on the hilt. Seems like an easy transition for it to actually be light bringer. Jon will probably find it in the crypt fulfilling the prophecy.

They didn't make it clear in the show. The hatred of the lannisters developed from the death of Elia and her children. Oberyn specifically went to KL in order to avenge her death and then was killed himself. Dorne has a long standing hatred for the lannisters and have a long history of Targ blood. Doran refused to act fast enough and Ellaria has now taken the mantle upon herself. They have thirsted for war for a long time.

I do think a major clue is in the crypts. Potentially more than just a clue. However that doesn't disqualify Lyanna from being Jons mother. She clearly is. I think the zooming in on the baby's face, transitioning to current day Jon was pretty straightforward. As was the blood, the promise, and the naming of the baby (she was stabbed but knew the baby's name and felt that was important to convey at that moment?). Not to mention that while Rhaegar was being defeated at the Trident, Rhaegars best friend Arthur Dayne, the greatest swordsman who ever lived, was defending a random castle that housed a random baby along with Ned's recently stabbed and dying sister? Ned then decides to take the random baby, raise it as his own, and never tell anyone that it was actually a random baby he found in a random castle, next to his randomly stabbed dying sister while being protected by Arthur Dayne? Imagine if Ned told his own devoted wife that the random baby he brought home was in actuality a random baby that he picked up from a random castle and not his bastard son. Wow, that would be a shocker.

His grandmother was a Targ. His great grandfather was Aegon. His father and both of Danys parents are first cousins. In fact, if Jon was Rhaegars son, he would also be Roberts cousin.

A lot of people are posting about the child's being Roberts and not rhaegars. First of all, the marriage between Lyanna and Robert was arranged and considering the sanctity of marriage and virginity in the westeros culture, I find it hard to believe that Lyanna would sleep with Robert out of wedlock. She didn't even seem to love him, let alone lust him. It's also further evidence that Rhaegar and Lyanna got married prior to Jon being conceived. Putting all that aside, I think a lot of people are forgetting that the baratheons ARE Targaryens. They are an offshoot line from the past. I realize the show doesn't intertwine the bloodlines like the book does but Robert Baratheon was a direct Targ descendent. That is also why Robert gets the IT after the war. He has the best claim because the Targ line has been extinguished and he is the eldest male heir of a Targ offshoot. Either way, Jon is a Targaryen.

It's against the law to use babies under a certain age in films. That is why every single movie ever made that depicts a newborn has a baby that is a few months old.

Wow. I never realized that one. Great catch. Years later and I'm still learning something new.

It only appears obvious because millions of fans have speculated on every word of the books for 20 years. If these revelations turn out to be false, then GRRM is being disingenuous as he would be knowingly changing storylines, after the fact, simply because of fan theories. Just because it's obvious doesn't make it not true. Also, things have a habit of becoming "obvious" after the fact. It's revisionist history. 90% of consumers thought the original iPad was a completely failure. Find one person who remembers being part of that 90%.

Two DIFFERENT people on this board think it's confirmed that Rhaegar is the father but Lyanna isn't necessarily the mother??!! You can't make this stuff up.

The Targs united the seven kingdoms and created the iron throne. From the standpoint of lineage, the true heir is Jon. He is the only living son of Rhaegar who was next in line. The baratheons only had claim because they are an offshoot of Targ cousins from way back. That is explicitly why Robert was given the throne instead of the other "contenders". Robert was a Targ descendant, just from another branch of the family tree "THE OTHERS ARE COMING. THE IT MEANS SH*T"

Dany has an overwhelming force. Cersei sits on the IT. And Jon is king in the north. Considering the Others are coming, does any of this really matter? I think they need to finally come to the realization that the IT means SH*T. Dany and Jon need to focus on what's important.

Considering targs have always married brother and sister for centuries, Jon marrying his aunt would be a badly needed addition to the gene pool.

As we know from the books, the iron born dont choose their leaders based on lineage. The seven kingdoms do however. Regardless, bran is the heir to Winterfell. Jon is a targaryen and the rightful heir to the iron throne. For now he's king in the north.

It was a long wait. He's not the heir to the north though. That is bran.

The rightful Lord of Winterfell is Bran. Neither Sansa nor arya can affect that. Jon is the rightful heir to the iron throne and dany is his aunt. So of course they will get married. That's what targs do. LONG LIVE JON TARGARYEN!

So. You are trolling??

This was the entire point. It was a trap by Ramsay to draw Jon into range of his archers. His plan was to take out Jon off the bat. Jon charging towards the army is what saved his life. He ran in front of the barrage of arrows. If he stayed or turned and ran he would have been killed. Then Ramsay had him anyway with the cavalry now that he was close enough and Jon was saved at the last possible second by his army catching up to him. Any hesitation and he was dead. That's how close Ramsay was to winning the battle in the first five minutes. And that's how close Jon was to death. It forwards my argument about how disappointing Jon was in this battle. He was out maneuvered. It took his sister to save him.

Yeah. I agree. This was supposed to be Jons big awakening and he was a totally feckless battlefield commander. He basically told Sansa the night before he had no idea what to do. His "big plan" was to dig ditches. He got completely out maneuvered and saved by his sister. Lame.

Right before the red wedding I thought Robb tells his banner men to hold the will handing the North to Jon if something happens to him. Maybe that only happens in the books? I didn't think so if they are going to do the ToJ reveal in episode 10, then it's really a moot point anyway. Although technically, if R+L is true, then Jon is the rightful heir to the Iron Throne AND to winter fell. If there is no will in the show, then I guess it goes to Bran, once he makes his appearance.

Robb Starks "will" granting full titles and the stark name to Jon. On a different note, if Jon is legitimized, then LF marrying Sansa doesn't make him Warden of the North. Something to keep an eye on in terms of LF trying to create a rift between Sansa and Jon to get him out of the picture.