Posts posted by Mithras
Aren't there still a lot of caches from Aerys II's reign left undiscovered, hidden throughout King's Landing? All of them growing more unstable over time, so that a jolt or heat can set it off (and to top it off, they can cause chain reactions)? She would just have to find one of those.
Most of them were discovered, transported and used in Blackwater. There still seems to be some caches beneath the Red Keep. While Varys was smuggling Tyrion out, he put out his torch at a certain section. The point of the wildfire plot was to destroy the invading host along with the city. So, if Cersei sees that as the only option to stand against Dany or fAegon marching on the KL, she will order new wildfire caches to be made and planted across the city.
She doesn't really have to be in charge for that... Could be that she escapes imprisonment only to burn down the city, or hides and comes back later or something :dunno:
Then again, there's nothing saying the city and keep has to remain around the Iron Throne when these others are sitting on it :lol:
I'm pretty sure Dany will arrive after the burning of King's Landing though... tho that's mostly based on that scene from House of the Undying in the show, where she walked through the ruins of the Red Keep while ash (or snow?) fell from above. Can't remember if it's mentioned in the books as well, but I don't think so?
Yes she does. Otherwise, how can she order the pyromancers produce more wildfire and Qyburn assist their deployment process secretly?
It is clearly foreshadowed that Cersei will burn the KL. So, she must be in charge until the end of the KL, which means neither fAegon nor Dany will take the KL.
Can you please explain how you see her story then? And why? As in, what is there in the actual text to support your reading of her particular arc.
I posted how she will slay LF here and in many places including this very thread, I posted how she will end up in KL and what she can do there.
As for how Sansa's story in KL will be tied up along with other major characters, I posted this in another thread:
Part 1: Jaime kills Cersei
“Lord Hallyne has assured me that his pyromancers can control the fire.” The Guild of Alchemists had been brewing fresh wildfire for a fortnight. “Let all of King’s Landing see the flames. It will be a lesson to our enemies.”
“Now you sound like Aerys.”
Her nostrils flared. “Guard your tongue, ser.”
“I love you too, sweet sister.”
How could I ever have loved that wretched creature? she wondered after he had gone. He was your twin, your shadow, your other half, another voice whispered. Once, perhaps, she thought. No longer. He has become a stranger to me.
She thought of Joffrey, clawing at his neck. In his last moments he had looked to her in desperate appeal, and a sudden memory had stopped her heart; a drop of red blood hissing in a candle flame, a croaking voice that spoke of crowns and shrouds, of death at the hands of the valonqar.
“And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.”
Tyrion slid a hand under his father’s chain, and twisted. The links tightened, digging into her neck. “For hands of gold are always cold, but a woman’s hands are warm,” he said.
“No more than I want Joy to marry the son of some scheming turncloak bitch. She deserves better.” Jaime would happily have strangled the woman [sybell Westerling] with her seashell necklace.
Note that a single hand is enough to strangle someone with a necklace. Jaime will strangle Cersei with the Hand's chain necklace.
Part 2: Cersei kills Jaime
I thought that I was the Warrior and Cersei was the Maid, but all the time she was the Stranger, hiding her true face from my gaze.
“Prince Aemon the Dragonknight [parallel to Jaime] cried the day Princess Naerys [parallel to Cersei] wed his brother Aegon,” Sansa Stark said, “and the twins Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk died with tears on their cheeks after each had given the other a mortal wound.”
Part 3: Jaime and Cersei must die together
I cannot die while Cersei lives, he told himself. We will die together as we were born together.
“My queen,” said Qyburn, “have you... forgotten? Ser Jaime has no sword hand. If he should champion you and lose...”
We will leave this world together, as we once came into it. “He will not lose. Not Jaime. Not with my life at stake.”
“Jaime? Have you had word?”
“None. Cersei, you may need to prepare yourself for—”
“If he were dead, I would know it. We came into this world together, Uncle. He would not go without me.”
Part 4: Operation Free the Bird
“I have made kings and unmade them. Sansa Stark is my last chance for honor.” Jaime smiled thinly. “Besides, kingslayers should band together.”
“True knights.” The queen seemed to find that wonderfully amusing. “No doubt you’re right. So why don’t you just eat your broth like a good girl and wait for Symeon Star-Eyes [parallel of Brienne] and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight [parallel of Jaime] to come rescue you, sweetling. I’m sure it won’t be very long now.”
Sansa turned toward the sept. Two stableboys [foreshadowing to Arya and Pod] followed, and one of the guards whose watch was ended [foreshadowing to Jon]. Others fell in behind them.
“If it is Sandor Clegane that we encounter, what would you have me do?”
Pray hard, Jaime thought, and run. “Send him to join his beloved brother and be glad the gods made seven hells. One would never be enough to hold both of the Cleganes.”
Near the kennels a group of men-at-arms were fighting a pair of dogs. Tyrion stopped long enough to see the smaller dog tear half the face off the larger one, and earned a few coarse laughs by observing that the loser now resembled Sandor Clegane.
You stupid girl, the queen thought, angry even now. Jaime does not even know you are alive. Back then her brother lived only for swords [Arya] and dogs [sandor] and horses [brienne]... and for her, his twin.
He looked south, and saw the great blue-green rush of the Trident. He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound [=Sandor]... Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful [=Jaime]... Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood [=UnGregor].
“I’ve heard his lordship say this war began when the Hand sent him out to bring the king’s justice to Gregor Clegane, and that’s how he means for it to end.”
So, here is my take for the great showdown (although I am still thinking about the details):
- Dany will defeat Dorne as the last stronghold of fAegon and ride to the KL.
“Prince Aemon the Dragonknight cried the day Princess Naerys wed his brother Aegon,” Sansa Stark said, “and the twins Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk died with tears on their cheeks after each had given the other a mortal wound.”
“Be quiet, or I’ll have Ser Meryn give you a mortal wound,” Joffrey told his betrothed.
If this quote is foreshadowing, I fear Sansa might get a mortal wound too, though perhaps Bran might save her.
Ned tried a swallow. “Dregs.” He felt as though he were about to bring the wine back up.
“All men must swallow the sour with the sweet. High lords and eunuchs alike. Your hour [The Hour of the Wolf] has come, my lord.”
It was late at night, during the hour of the wolf, when the remaining lords departed the council chamber, leaving Maegor to brood alone. Early the next morning, he was found dead on the throne, his robes sodden with blood, his arms slashed open by the barbs of the Iron Throne.
Lord Cregan Stark held sway at court. This came to be known as the Hour of the Wolf.
Ned was concerned for his daughters. Ned’s spirit might ask Jon to save them when the time comes. The Hour of the Wolf represents a Stark coming down to the KL, kicking ass, doing justice and leaving. Also noteworthy that Maegor (Cersei's parallel) was last seen alive during the hour of the wolf.
Narratively, Sansa becoming a ruling queen and a player does not make sense. It is only seeing things that are not there in Sansa's story. She didnot accomplish anything, she didnot learn anything, she didnot show any light. LF is simply toying with her.
"You are such a little fool" is in fact directed to
SansaAlayne in this chapter.
I don't think Sansa will be kidnapped and brought back to KL by Shadrich - or, if it does happen, it is bad writing, and here is why I think so:
1) Why should Sansa trust Shadrich? She learned that lesson with Dontos. (Who, btw, I think sincerely wanted to help her on some level at the same time he was in the pay of LF. I think Dontos trusted LF too well himself - LF probably told him, "I'm a dear, close friend of Sansa's mother and I only want the best for Sansa!") I don't think she's going to be sneaking off to meet Shadrich in the godswood, or wherever, anytime soon.
2) The circumstances are against it. As I and others have pointed out, it's not easy to sneak people into or out of the Gates of the Moon, especially now with LF having Gulltown's ports closed. The reason the Great Spring Sickness did not affect the Vale was that it is easy to cut off access in and out of it.
3) LF got Sansa out of KL by taking advantage of the pandemonium surrounding Joffrey's death, and he had help (Dontos, a boat, etc.). Sansa was unwatched and unguarded. "Alayne" is surrounded by Petyr, Sweetrobin, Myranda, and, soon, eight Winged Knights.
4) Speaking of which - if "Alayne" disappears, the tantrum Sweetrobin will throw will be heard all the way in Dorne. He is going to command those Winged Knights of his to "FIND ALAYNE! OR I WILL MAKE YOU FLY!"
5) Yet Another Hostage In KL Arc would be repetitive and, frankly, bad writing. We've been there and done that and the plot needs to move forward.
6) The only people who are interested in trying Sansa for regicide are dead (Tywin, Kevan) or imprisoned and disgraced (Cersei). I don't think the Tyrells want a trial, as they are too busy with rescuing Margaery, dealing with Ironborn, and propping up their own rule in the capital. If they want Sansa, it's to get her to marry Willas for real this time; as far as they know, she's still the heiress to Winterfell and potentially Riverrun as well. Shadrich's going to be mighty disappointed if he expects Lannister gold in exchange for Sansa.
If Shadrich is in the pay of Varys, then Sansa is not headed to Cersei and KL, but to wherever Aegon is, possibly for another Stark/Martell/Targaryen love triangle (oh please noooooo). Or, possibly, to Highgarden to marry Willas, if Varys is trying to get in the Tyrells' good books. GRRM has said we'll see Highgarden in TWOW - maybe it will be through Sansa.
Crossing my fingers for no backtracking to KL for Sansa...
Since I believe she will decide to go with Shadrich just after she slays LF when he tries to rape her, many of your points will be invalid.
1) With a dead LP in the room, she will not have much options. The cronies of LF will certainly not like the death of LF because it will deprive them of income. So, they will have no sympathy for Sansa. Besides, Sansa lied to them a lot. None of the Vale Lords will have much reason to trust her at that point, or at least Sansa will believe it so. She didnot trust them either, that is why she lied about Marillion.
2) I already argued why they can get out of the Vale secretly.
3) After the death of LF, a similar pandemonium will happen, especially if Harry is dead too.
4) Winged Knights will fly.
5) "To go forward you must go back." This time everything will be different. Sansa has to overcome her fear of Cersei and the only way to do that is to face her.
6) Sansa is too dangerous and precious to be left alone. Varys can make good use of her and Varys is in KL. Cersei not only offers gold but lordship as well.
Now come on.... seriously :P
Well, yeah. I think the mother of Brandon the Builder was a CotF and he was a hybrid who had small stature and long life. It might be past time another Stark marrying another CotF.
They could give Bran a hole love story with Leaf if they liked to keep his story going but it would mean jack in terms of the books.
Lol. I seriously ship Leaf and Bran.
A note: LF has Braavosi origins and in Braavos, when there is an election to select the new Sealord, "knives come out".
It serves the purpose of jolting the status quo and perhaps causing Sansa to reevaluate her situation, if she's not necessarily pretending to be "Alayne" anymore and that whole headspace goes away. Or it could mean any number of other things.
Conversely, what purpose or sense does it make to have Sansa embarking on a lengthy travelogue or imprisonment away from the stage GRRM has spent a decent amount of time setting up for her, where she can practice court intrigue and interact with factions that she may have some leverage with?
She will display her skills in KL when she becomes a prisoner of Cersei again. She has a trial to win. She can play some cards like Cersei's mistrust to the Tyrells, their secret dealings with the LF, and she might denounce Rickon as an impostor as he will be supporting Stannis. At the same time, she might make quick alliances with Marg or Tyene.
I think Sansa is supposed to be the Younger and More Beautiful Queen (if such a thing is not a product of Cersei's schizophrenic mind) and she can do that only in the KL.
Nothing suggests Ser Galladon or Ser Morgarth are there with Ser Shadrich.
LF told Sansa that their gallantry is yet to be proven. Shadrich was looking for partners. That much he offered to Brienne.
So, something suggests that Shadrich might have found what he was looking for. That does not mean that Galladon and Morgarth are Varys' pets too. They might be simple tools recruited by Shadrich and he will get himself rid of them after they serve their purpose.
You seem to have an awfully unrealistic idea of the ease of sending messages in Westeros. All evidence points to the fact that he is there alone and without any help. I'm not saying he is not working for Varys (I don't have an opinion on that tbh) but even if he is, that doesn't make getting out of the Vale any easier.
If Varys started killing people that could be annoyance to fAegon, we can expect him to concentrate his spies on LF and the Vale, even if he didnot have enough spies already positioned.
A lot of smuggling should be taking place in the Fingers, considering the geography.
Considering the "mute" attribute of the "little mice" and Varys killing them around puberty? Rather unlikely.
Nor does his stature relates in any way, beyond the symbolic maybe.
Yes it does. Illyrio specifically mentioned that they looked for small, quick, bright children.
There isn't a single hint that Ser Shadrich works for Varys at all. Not beyond knowing and caring about the very public bounty on Sansa.
Nor can he be one of Varys' mice, what with them having their tongues cut out and being dissappeared when they grow into adults.
Sansa accompanying Dontos had her fleeing the Lannisters with a guy she trusted. Who would she flee in the Vale and why should she trust Shadrich?
There is at least a single hint that Shadrich works for Varys. He used to train little mice in Pentos and the nickname of Shadrich is Mad Mouse. He is of small stature, clever, stalks well and there is the suspicion that someone climbed LF's window and spied on his papers, a la little mice style. George dropped the winged mice phrase in this chapter.
Therefore, you can hardly argue that there is not a single hint that Shadrich works for Varys. There are hints but there is no proof as of yet.
And it is not reported that the tongues of the little mice were cut off.
Really? Last I checked, he looked pretty alone.
And yeah, I'm sure he will contact Illyrio, using his magical powers of telepathy :)
EDIT: I'm not sure why you assume Sansa would leave with Shadrich. She knows Dontos was nothing more than a front, so why would she fall for that again? From what you say, this is occurring after she becomes disillusioned with LF. SO it would follow that she wouldn't trust someone who appears to be exactly the same as Dontos was for LF.
There are two more "hungry knights" with him for a start. By the time he has been there, he could have informed Varys and more agents could have been placed in important locations.
The intelligence network of Varys and Illyrio at long distances rely on the messages carried by their ships and caravans. It is impossible to insert a small bird to Eyrie but the rest of the Vale is no different than other places. I am sure that Shadrich can send the message to the contact person in the Vale.
It has just struck me, that Ser Lyn will win the Melee.
Alayne tells Randa that ser lyn might kill her suitors for a plump bag of gold, and Sansa knows how the fight will end as soon as she see's who is sparing, she tells us that there would have been brains as well if the sword was not blunted and she compliments Ser Lyn on his skill at arms, and he acknowledges that yes he is indeed very good. He then reminds her he has no lands and so needs no heir, and she tells us that Ser Lyn is always desperately short of cash. Then when thinking on the Melee she thinks it is for the older generation, and there will be prises and ransoms. The Winged Knights are being awarded for jousting not swordsmanship, we haven't heard anything of Lyn as a jouster, but we just got told he is awesome with the sword. And he doesn't have need for wings and the honour of service he has need of cash, his is the melee.
Yes, this was discussed before. But I think another person will do the job. Lyn is an expert swordsman but as Sansa noted, the oaf would die if they had real swords. Baelor Breakspear's head was opened by the mace of Maekar. So, I expect someone with a hammer or a mace to kill Harry. Even an axe can do the job if used well.
ETA: or maybe Lyn was making a practice to see whether he could kill someone with a tourney sword. Now that he saw it not likely, he might switch to a mace or a hammer.
Because it's much more realistic to assume a single knight can escape the Vale, noted for its isolation and ability to be closed off from the rest of the Realm (see The Great Spring Sickness) with a girl who has no reason to accompany him, sure, of course.
Shadrich is no sinlge knight. If he is a trained mice of Varys, he should know what he is doing. If Illyrio is informed that he should smuggle out a "package" from the Vale, he can arrange a ship somewhere remote around the Fingers. And Sansa will have exactly the same reason to accompany Shadrich when she accompanied Dontos once.
The daggers that will be distributed to those who will participate the melee point some "perfectly-placed daggers" among them (i.e. the brothers, uncles, fathers, and friends who had accompanied the competitors). So, that agent (or agents) will be the killer. This does not mean that a dagger will be used in the killing. George's melees are highly dangerous. It is easy to kill someone if one has enough "perfectly placed daggers" in the yard.
My standing prediction is that he's going to try and fail, but in the process of failing shake up the status quo.
That would be an extremely low quality and disappointing story teling. There are many ways to shake the status quo and George generally prefers the deaths of significant characters in an unexpected way.
There are already many characters who failed to even find Sansa. Writing a character who finds Sansa, who knows her true identity and having him failed to abduct Sansa serves no purpose and makes no sense.
We do not know who were The Rat, the Hawk, and the Pig but it might be a reference to "The Catte, the Ratte and Lovell our dogge rulyth all Englande under a hogge"
I guess the LC does not have to accept any person who comes to take the black. That is just a PR thing going on for millennia.
what if jaime asks for trial by combat and faces brienne. He then has to kill her by thrusting oathbreaker through her heart. Thereby becoming azor ahai reborn.
Brienne will not champion a cause she does not believe in. Therefore, she will not fight for UnCat against Jaime because she tried to tell her that Jaime is a changed man and did his best to keep his vow to Cat. Therefore, I think Brienne will champion Jaime against UnCat's champion (which will probably be Lem Lemoncloak).
In TWOIAF, there is a maester called Nicol who wrote The Measure of the Days.
Based upon his work on the movement of stars in the firmament, Nicol argues unconvincingly that the seasons might once have been of a regular length, determined solely by the way in which the globe faces the sun in its heavenly course.Maester Nicol is a reference to astronomer Nicolaus Copernicus.
Think I'm right in saying (text not in front of me) that Mance was a wildling orphan who was raised by the NW so he doesn't really know Westeros at all I imagine, apart from maybe some parts of the north?
Even if that is the case (which I highly doubt), Mance should have learned in Winterfell what Ramsay would do to his foes.
[Book Spoilers] EP502 Discussion
in E02: The House of Black and White
Shireen wil be saved from the pyre. It is known.