When Harry met Sansa

Thanks! :D I don't think anyone is wrong, just we should all chill out a little bit. Far more important/cool/concerning things to focus on other than why Cersei is nice to Marg. As people have pointed out, it's all an act to get in good with Lord Oaf.

People need to relax and calm down with the whole "CERSEI IS SO DIFFERENT WHY IS SHE DIFFERENT AND NICE???". Breathe. First and foremost, Cersei doesn't have a POV chapter until AFfC. In ASoS it is only like 200 pages or so of time between Joff and Tywin's deaths IIRC but for dramatic effect D&D altered the timeline and made the Red Wedding happen last season and now are backtracking through material hundreds of pages earlier this season. Which makes total sense as there would be no way the could accomplish the Red Wedding and its leadup, the battle at CB/for the wall and all the rest of the major deaths and other big subplots in one season. It's not until after Tywin's death that Cersei becomes ridiculously unstable; we have to remember that the timeline is altered and many of the Jaime scenes we've seen from her this season DID NOT EXIST in the books. There is no doubt in my mind that Cersei will begin her ridiculously unstable, no longer nice routine once Tywin is killed and Jaime leaves again. How could she not? Let's break down how end-of-season Cersei will be. -Her dwarf brother that she tried to have executed for murdering her son somehow escaped the capital and is gone to parts unknown after murdering her father. -Her father, head of the family and in her own words "the most powerful man alive" is no longer alive. She has to start doing shit on her own. -Her remaining brother and former lover leaves her once again to take command in the Riverlands. -Sansa Stark is still missing. Her grip on power is loosening by the day and, without her father around, she begins to see the Tyrells as more and more of a looming threat. Now, in the context of the show we know that Stannis, Davos and co. will make the decision to sail to the Wall next episode (read the ep. 6 description). It's pretty likely that we don't see much more of KL at all this season aside from the trial, which we know will be held next episode and in episode 8 when Gregor and Oberyn fight. TBH I don't see how Cersei will come into play in Ep. 9 (which, correct me if I'm wrong, will only be set at the wall?) or Ep. 10, where the only time we spend in KL should be in a dungeon and a privy. Given all that, I'd fully expect Cersei to start making her irrational decisions as her newfound power floods to her head at the beginning of next season. With her father removed, she is of course under no obligation to marry Loras anymore and he offers to take the white. Cersei sending him to take Dragonstone-- which will probably be revealed as vacant in S5 Ep. 1 or 2 as the realm learns Stannis is at the Wall--could easily be used as the start of the Cersei-Margery fued, which is easily fueled over competing for Tommen's affection and love. So in summation, frackin relax with Cersei's even-temperament and total not completely-bitchiness for the moment as it's VERY likely the only times we see her for the rest of the season are in the Tyrion trial scenes. Next year I fully expect we will get book Cersei for good.

It's right before the NW comes in and starts fighting. Jojen is explaining to Bran the need to get to the wierwood tree and has the vision of it behind Bran. Then when he talks about his own death he is staring at his hand, where we initially see nothing. But then the camera shifts and is placed behind him and we see his hand aflame.

Finally finished tonight's ep. This was a pretty fun episode all the way through, starting with the obvious glee of more Aiden Gillen derp, which I was disappointed to see did not appear past the 20 minute mark but will undoubtedly return in "Mockingbird" . Of all of the things that happened though, I actually did enjoy being spoiled this time around. We know now--and I think it's safe to say that this one isn't one that D&D invented, GRRM probably created it--that Jojen dies by fire. I'm pretty convinced that this will mean that Jojen is burned by Mel. We know that Mel sees Bran and BR and presumingly Jojen and Meera as servants of the Great Other and I think it's likely to conclude that if Jojen is to die by fire then he is taken/sacrifices himself and is burned by Mel. In the books the last we know so far is that Jojen and Meera are still with Bran, BR and the gang and that he is very weak and depressed by the time they reach the cave. He wants to return to Greywater Watch but also has the greendream about it and realizes that has an unfavorable outcome. Mel has that vision where she sees Bran and co. along with BR. Just my two cents; apologies if someone else has already thrown this out there. I had no desire to grind through all of the posts.

Haha it was on par for sure. But one can never get enough of Aidan Gillen derp-face.

Best part of this episode was obviously Robin throwing Petyr's gift out the Moon Door--worst moment of the episode was not immediately showing Petyr's inevitable derp face at witnessing that act.

:agree: This was really the last time Dany does anything cool for seemingly forever and yet they accomplished it in the lamest way possible. There was no Jorah or BtB, no room now for Lord Friendzone to be fully fleshed out, not even any fighting shown period. I get that they have a limited budget but even a skirmish would have been better than the assumption that the slaves quickly take out a bunch of the great masters and the city, which apparently has absolutely no army at all, folds immediately. That was pathetic and the Mysha stuff followed by Dany at the Great Pyramid with the Targ flag was more of an epic eye roll for me than a, Wow, that was badass!

Guyse guyse guyse!!! For the last time, the Other at the end of the episode was just an Other; the NK was just a man and that was not the NK! The viewer's guide changed it to "Walker" aka Other because, as Ran pointed out, the episode guide is not written by GRRM, D&D or possibly even anyone involved with the show. I assume you meant "Bran" or "Ghost" where you have Snow? It looked like one of those standard pit traps where the entrance is covered by leafs or snow or something and has something along the lines of sharpened stakes at the bottom. I'm sure he's wounded but OK and when Jon and the rescue party come next episode he, along with Bran, Ghost and co. will be reunited. The writers are obviously just making Jon and Ghost's reunion more dramatic since this is undoubtedly how they get back together. I would be surprised if the JonBran fight/reunion is any other scene next episode besides the first or last.

LOL no the person who posted R+L=Hodor CLEARLY did it as a joke. R+L=J isn't a crackpot theory, it's the truth. It is known.

It is. It's a story I think most of the children in the north grow up hearing. Also super unrelated but someone posted R+L=Hodor in the AV Club Review Comments and it made my night. :drunk:

The NK fell in love with a woman who has the same description as the Others, her description is something like "skin as white as moonlight, cold as ice to the touch" IIRC. So in summation NK was a man who had an Other wife and a bunch of freaky and def. NSFW stuff went down with them at the Nightfort before the NK seemingly was taken out.

I'd agree that Lancel will be enough, as well as that they are absolutely setting it up for Jon to demonstrate his leadership skills at Craster's to validate his battle command at the Battle of the Wall in Ep. 9. Basically just Thorne and Slynt plotting against Jon>>>backfires>>>Jon's credibility goes up>>>>Jon is the one everyone listens to during the subsequent fighting at CB.

For all those asking, the Night's King was a human who well in love with an Other, then after like 13 years the King in the North and the King Beyond the Wall united to take him out because he was ruling the Nightfort as a King essentially. After his "fall" it was found he was sacrificing to the Others. But of course in true GRRM ambiguity I'm pretty sure his "fall" is the only word used, so is it possible his wife survived and turned him into an Other, or a wight or something? Sure, I guess. Fall doesn't necessarily mean death but IIRC that while GRRM uses "fall" I've always taken that as "was killed".

There's no evidence to support that the Night's King was anything but a man who was killed in the Age of Heroes by The King in the North and Joramun, King Beyond the Wall. I don't think that was the Night's King anymore than that was/is a typo by someone who is ill-informed on the history. Most likely that guy is just some special Other.

I think what's best is just to try as hard as possible to remind yourself to keep the book and show separated, like any adaptation. No adaptation will ever beat the books like any good piece of writing should do, but still FWIW HBO's done an excellent job with the series. Is it frustrating sometimes to watch plot lines completely altered, characters deleted and new content added seemingly without reason? Absolutely. But I think what's best to do is just for all of us to be grateful for what we have and try to enjoy both. It's funny to think that years ago when Winteriscoming.net was getting started I know a bunch of us were just hoping that HBO would get the show to TWO SEASONS after grinding out for weeks and weeks the initial cast members. Now it's one of the most popular shows period and I have a ton of unsullied friends who are either reading the books season to season or have promised to start reading them once the show is done. Whether or not you want to quit watching the show is of course your decision but I think if you can separate them and accept the changes both can still be incredibly enjoyable.

Pretty sure that guy isn't the Great Other; as other people have pointed out, the Great Other is a diety and doesn't have a physical body from all accounts. That guy is an important Other no doubt but not the Great Other. Tonight's ep was pretty meh for me as a whole. I'm not entirely a book purist but did think a lot of the changes were once again unnecessary/annoying. Any scene involving Tyrion, Jaime, Bronn, Brienne, Pod, LF or Sansa was well executed. Everything else was meh to bad except for the end, which was pretty cool to watch. It's nice for us to be spoiled for once, although it will undoubtedly be cooler to read that scene in TWoW. As for the Dany stuff, I'm really dissapointed with how that played out. The Jorah-Selmy Mereen takeout was her final act as a badass char before she essentially becomes zzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZ.

I think they'll get to it eventually, probably within the next episode or two so Loras can opt-out of marrying Cersei. Yeah, I'm not sure why they didn't make him ask for it in the show version when he asks Joff to marry Margery, they easily could have had him do both then. But since taking the White allowed him to avoid marriage I'm sure they'll have him do it soon. That was the only good thing I took out of the Jaime-Loras conversation from the episode, that it plants that seed in Loras' mind.

I'm not saying Stannis does anything with it and I'm not saying Stannis wouldn't be against it, because he would. I'm saying that they could have Mel suggest it; it doesn't matter that Stannis would be abhorred by it. Show Selyse, like book Selyse, is the more religiously fervent in their marriage and more likely to, in the scenario that I think D&D could create, tell Mel/Stannis it. Obviously I'd agree Stannis would be super pissed at hearing that but with how much they've already changed his plot I could see them molding it into his mind over time.

I thought that was a horse but immediately thought of Cold Hands as well.

I'm not in love with the collective changes to the Stannis line as well, but anyone else think that D&D might try to float the idea out there that Mel tells Stannis to sacrifice Shireen for the Stone Dragon stuff? So much about the Stannis line is different and in tonight's ep. Selyse is pretty critical of her which could suggest they could reasonably justify taking the plot in that direction at some point in the future. Shireen fits the "King's Blood" requirement that is needed. Again, I'm not suggesting that this happens, either in the books or the show, just that D&D could potentially float it out there.

I mean, I kinda wrote 1 or 2 pieces on how Jaime-Brienne have a sort of "brotherly love" if you will, you know :) But seriously, the Jaime-Brienne-end-up-together theory just doesn't work for me. You have to have some element of lust to make that work and I literally don't see any. Jaime "felt his cock stir" when they're together in the bath after "he caught a glimpse of the thick blond bush at the juncture of her thighs as she climbed out. She was much hairier than his sister." His immediate thought is "Now I know I've been too long away from Cersei." Any physical response from his body in that scene, which is the extent of their physical contact with each other, is based solely on human nature I.E. Jaime hasn't seen anyone naked in a while, natural response from his body which he is immediately repulsed by as Cersei is the only one he's ever physically longed for. Part of what makes Jaime's arc so great is that when he finally comes to grips with the fact that fucking his sister for forever actually was pretty effed-up, he begins to actually take his Kingsguard duties seriously and begins trying to become a better person. All hint of lust towards women is gone; see the Pia stuff in Feast for an example. Can Brienne and Jaime have some sort of love for each other? Sure. But it is certainly not a physically-based kind; if anything, they have a brotherly love, battle-bred warrior love for each other, as one man would have for another and that's it. The rest will be left to fan-fic.

Yes, there is something there. But the something there is the complete and total admiration for Jaime after he tells her the truth about becoming "Kingslayer". When was the last time Jaime saw a naked woman again? It's human nature lol, even if she's not an attractive one as Brienne certainly isn't.

Again, another nice plot point from the first two episodes that not-so-discreetly was followed up on in Martin's latest TWoW. GRRM, you crafty S.O.B.

The J+D+A part means I think that's poop lol :D As in, that would suck as a plot, not as in, oh shit, that would be incredibly cool/look out Westeros.

Tysha is most definitely not irrelevant for a number of reasons, but it's kind of super important in the privy scene since Tyrion literally asks Tywin one question, and that is "What did you do with Tysha?". Tywin's goading to the answer makes Tyrion pulling the trigger all the easier.