yanmaodao

Try the Reddit threads, if you haven't already. Mostly everyone there has read the books, and you hear a lot of the same type of comments, but overall a better balance of positivity and negativity and good humor on both sides. I appreciate what you and lancerman are trying to do. A hard thankless task. Season 5 was my least favorite season, but most of the comments here are pretty ridiculous and I find myself defending it more often than not. Now that the season's over, I'm mostly going to be popping in for the lovable crackpot theories on the main ASOIAF forum and sticking to mostly positive topics. Nothing else to do but wait for WoW, which I maintain faith will be released before Season 6; Martin has too much incentive to let this timing window go to waste. It'll be the first opportunity for me to read a book before its related season airs, which will be a cool experience.

I gave it a 9. Overall a more consistent outing compared to earlier episodes this season. The high moments were higher (walk of atonement, Arya killing Trant, Theon killing Myranda) and the low moments had some redeeming qualities. Since people have talked at length about the former, and I don't see the usual positive nitpicking thread around, I'll focus on the latter. The rushed Battle of Winterfell was no high point for sure, but I must be the only one who enjoyed Stannis in it. People seem to be divided into those who love Stannis and thus hated it and those who don't like or don't care for him who didn't mind it or even enjoyed because of that fact. I instantly grew to like Stannis as a show-watcher first, and his portrayal in this episode emphasized everything I liked about him in the first place. His grim, stoic acceptance of the cavalcade of bad news that would have visibly broken most other people. His grim, stoic acceptance of the fact that he would lose when the Bolton cavalry descended upon him; no ranting, no panic, just drawing his sword, accepting the inevitable, and going down fighting. Killing those two men with a gimp leg. Grim, stoic acceptance of his death via Brienne, excellent final words that summarized his character. I'll still never forgive him for Shireen and he deserved what he got, but I'll remember him as one of my favorite villains. The post-Castle Black Stannis's camp subplot needed more buildup, but I for one liked the oppressive, snowballing sense of futility and inevitability that came to a head in this episode. (One of the calamities that befell him this episode, such as losing all his cavalry, should have been before he burned Shireen. That should have been the catalyst. The reason why this happened should not have been plot-plated-hermetically-sealed-bubbled, Villain Sue Ramsay.) Dorne was Dorne, and the "bad pussy" line was the most cringeworthy line in the series so far. I liked two lines said by Jaime: a repeat of his arc words, "we don't choose who we love", and his "what I'm trying to explain... uh, very awkwardly", which echoed what Tyrion said to Sansa two seasons before, which illustrates how similar the two Lannister brothers are. "For the Watch" was pretty good. Walk of atonement was very nicely done. Loved Theon and Sansa. Didn't like Trant's pedophilication but Arya going Tarantino on him provided some much-needed catharsis. HoBaW was okay. Really didn't like how they jerked us around about Benjen, a character I'm dying to meet again. I didn't like all the cliffhangers, but I'm not docking points for that because it seems like they did it that way to minimize book spoilers. Other than the Stannis storyline, which zoomed past the books (and the path will likely be very different in the books; I have no doubt that Stannis will be defeated eventually, but I don't know if it's going to be at Winterfell), no significant spoilers. Not really counting Myrcella's death or the Robert Strong = Mountain reveal as actual spoilers, because per Maggy's prophecy we all know Tommen and Myrcella are doomed, it's just a question of when; and only contrarians who like hearing themselves talk ever seriously doubted Gregorstein. The way the Jon Snow death was handled was my worst fear, as I think this sort of cliffhanger is cheap storytelling. But I'm willing to forgive that if their motivation is to copy how ADwD ended and not pre-empt WoW. If Jon Snow never comes back in either the books or the show, I'd be very disillusioned with the series and lose a lot of interest. If Jon Snow comes back in the books but not the show, that would turn me against the show, though I'd respond by not talking about the show altogether than become a tedious detractor on these forums. I'm still expecting him to come back on both mediums and that the post-interview comments were lies intended to protect the secret, much like the show Revenge did earlier this year when it came to a dead character coming back. The show generally sticks very closely to the books when it comes to Big Moments (such as the walk of atonement in this very episode), and I can't imagine a scenario in which Jon Snow comes back in the books but his presence isn't essential to upcoming Big Moments in the final books.

I'm giving this episode a provisional 8, under the belief that (1) Shireen burns in the books, and that (2) Stannis is significantly responsible. I don't think (1) is much in doubt but if (2) isn't true then in retrospect this will drop by a lot. It's sad, because each of the buildup scenes individually was good. I knew what was coming but hoped against hope that someone would come at the last moment and save Shireen, and was on the edge of my seat. The actors were just as good in the slower episodes earlier this season, but too many scenes were lifeless because they had no actual stakes; this did, and the difference was night and day. It's a real pity what was lying at the other end of those stakes, though. (A literal stake.) For the first time, I enjoyed the Dorne scenes, but I'm puzzled by how much a shaggy dog story it all turned out to be. Put six named characters in a room each with their own agenda, is an easy and reliable way to give a scene heft, and the dining room scene was probably my favorite in Dorne so far. Sand Snakes are who they are, and they're a lot better when portrayed lightheartedly and with their immaturity emphasized, than when we're supposed to think that they're badasses. I still think a Sand Snake will kill Tommen in the end, so they have some room to grow. Obligatory Ellaria de-villainization scene in the end. But what was the point? I doubt we'll re-visit Dorne in episode 10. Was it all an excuse just to shoot in Spain? Dorne could have easily been subsumed under King's Landing. Just have the necessary Dorne characters show up at King's Landing from the beginning, including the Sand Snakes, if they truly have a role to play in the future that must be kept. Instead, make White Harbor a unique location, send Sansa there instead, and have her join forces with Manderly. I will say that at the very least it's nice that Dorne was at least kept light-hearted, save for that one epic battle that wasn't back in episode 6. Given how much of a gallop every other storyline has been, the pace of Arya's has been frustrating. Just kill Trant already, we all know it's going to happen. Meereen was what I expected it to be, no more and no less. I wish there was a declaration by Dany to her advisors that when she gets back, they're hightailing it to Westeros, if only for the show-only watchers' sake, because the Meereen quagmire has got to be getting tiresome for them. There's no question now that season 5 will end up the worst in my estimation, though I still enjoy the show. The only chance it had was for the episodes starting from 7 to be all balls to the wall, to make up for the drudgiest first half of a season yet, but this episode nine I found solid but unspectacular. Just get to the endgame already because the whole season has been mostly spinning its wheels.

This will be a very long year, waiting to see WoW verify this. It's ambiguous whether "this" refers to Stannis being responsible or not. If he isn't, then it's the worst departure from the books yet. I hope the Vale knights come soon and kill all of them.